Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: armytruck on August 30, 2008, 12:52:10 PM
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Fishery Notice
Category(s): RECREATIONAL - Salmon
Subject: FN0641-Salmon: Area 29 and Region 2 - Management Measures to Protect Thompson and Upper Fraser River Coho
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The following measures will be implemented to protect Thompson and upper Fraser
River coho and to provide selective opportunities for Chinook and chum.
Fraser River Tidal Waters downstream of the CPR Bridge at Mission
Effective 00:01 hours Tuesday, September 2, 2008 to 23:59 hours Friday, October
3, 2008:
You may not fish for coho salmon.
You may not fish for sockeye salmon.
You may not use bait when fishing for salmon.
You may selectively fish for the following species:
- Chinook salmon, the daily limit is four (4) per day, only one of which may
exceed 62 cm.
- Chum salmon, the daily limit is two (2) per day.
Fraser River - above Mission
Effective 00:01 hours Thursday, September 4, 2008 to 23:59 hours Monday,
October 6, 2008, in the non-tidal waters of the Fraser River, from the CPR
Bridge at Mission, BC upstream to a line drawn between two triangular white
boundary signs located on opposite sides of the Fraser River approximately 3 km
upstream of the confluence with the Harrison River (downstream of Jesperson's
Bar):
You may not fish for coho salmon.
You may not fish for sockeye salmon.
You may not use bait when fishing for salmon.
You may selectively fish for the following species:
- Chinook salmon, the daily limit is four (4) per day, only one of which may
exceed 62 cm.
- Chum salmon, the daily limit is two (2) per day.
Note: An "adult chinook" in this area is defined as being over 50 cm except
from September 1 to December 31 when an "adult chinook" is defined as being
over 62 cm.
During this critical migration timing for Interior Fraser coho, the
recreational community is requested to fish selectively when fishing for
chinook and chum. The first principle of selective harvest is to avoid
catching non-targeted stocks. This means that anglers are requested to use
angling methods that do not catch sockeye or coho.
NO FISHING AREAS FOR SALMON BY DATE
Effective 00:01 hrs Thursday, September 4, 2008 until 23:59 hrs Monday, October
6, 2008, in the non-tidal waters of the Fraser River, from a line drawn between
two triangular white boundary signs located on opposite sides of the Fraser
River approximately 3 km upstream of the confluence with the Harrison River
(downstream of Jesperson's Bar) to the Highway No. 1 Bridge at Hope, BC, you
may not fish for salmon.
Effective 00:01 hrs Saturday, September 6, 2008 until 23:59 hrs Thursday,
October 9, 2008, in the non-tidal waters of the Fraser River, from the Highway
No. 1 Bridge at Hope, BC to the confluence with Sawmill Creek you may not fish
for salmon.
Variation Order Nos 2008-346, 2008-347, 2008-348, 2008-349, 2008-350, 2008-351,
2008-352 in effect.
Notes:
The aggregate daily limit for all species of Pacific Salmon (other than
kokanee) from tidal and non-tidal waters combined is four (4).
Barbless hooks are required when fishing for salmon in tidal and non-tidal
waters of British Columbia. This includes all species of fish in the Fraser
River.
Sport anglers are encouraged to participate in the voluntary Salmon Sport Head
Recovery program by labelling and submitting heads from adipose fin-clipped
chinook and coho salmon. Recovery of coded-wire tags provides critical
information for coast-wide stock assessment. Contact the Salmon Sport Head
Recovery Program at (866) 483-9994 for further information.
Did you witness suspicious fishing activity or a violation? If so, please call
the Fisheries and Ocean Canada 24-hour toll free Observe, Record, Report line
at (800) 465-4336.
For the 24 hour recorded opening and closure line, call toll free at (866) 431-
FISH.
Fisheries & Oceans Operations Center - FN0641
Sent August 29, 2008 at 1504
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Visit Fisheries and Oceans Canada on the Web at http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
Return to Main Menu Printable Version
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"During this critical migration timing for Interior Fraser coho, the
recreational community is requested to fish selectively when fishing for
chinook and chum. The first principle of selective harvest is to avoid
catching non-targeted stocks. This means that anglers are requested to use
angling methods that do not catch sockeye or coho."
Would I be wrong if I read this to mean no Bottom Bouncing from Sept 1st to Oct 9th in the Fraser river?
Further there is a bait ban?
Thanks
CJ.
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"You may not use bait when fishing for salmon."
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"During this critical migration timing for Interior Fraser coho, the
recreational community is requested to fish selectively when fishing for
chinook and chum. The first principle of selective harvest is to avoid
catching non-targeted stocks. This means that anglers are requested to use
angling methods that do not catch sockeye or coho."
Would I be wrong if I read this to mean no Bottom Bouncing from Sept 1st to Oct 9th in the Fraser river?
Further there is a bait ban?
Thanks
CJ.
yes, you would be wrong. this is talking about a bait ban.
I don't no much about BB but I'm sure they don't use bait.
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No, you would not be wrong.
"During this critical migration timing for Interior Fraser coho, the
recreational community is requested to fish selectively when fishing for
chinook and chum. The first principle of selective harvest is to avoid
catching non-targeted stocks. This means that anglers are requested to use
angling methods that do not catch sockeye or coho."
It's quite clear actually. Bottom bouncing is a method that does catch sockeye and coho. Anglers are "requested" not to use such methods. Bar fishing with spin and glows (see "bait ban") is not a method normally used to catch sockeye and coho.
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if that’s how you read it, it means
no float fishing
no spoons
no jigs
nothing that takes any skill.
you can only sit mindlessly next to your bar rod.
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if that’s how you read it, it means
no float fishing
no spoons
no jigs
nothing that takes any skill.
you can only sit mindlessly next to your bar rod.
Why is it that some people CONSISTANTLY catch more fish on the bar rods than others if there is no skill involved??
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::) Groan... This is what I just hate about the DFO, it seems no matter what their communication is it is never clear enough.
It usually leaves me feeling that I may be correct in my fishing methods but never absolutely clear. The replies to this post is a case in point.
Chris, Rod care to weigh in and verify the facts?
Anyone else?
CJ.
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Until about two years ago, the only management measure used during the Interior coho salmon run-time in the Lower Fraser River is a total salmon fishing closure from in September and part of October, except limited openings on pink salmon during their run years since 2003. The SFACs requested the option of limited fishing opportunities for chinook and chum salmon as a management measure during this period around two years ago and Fisheries and Oceans Canada has provided it. This is particularly good for two user groups. Recreational anglers who lack the mobility and do not wish to travel far can still enjoy a salmon fishery during this period. The opportunity also provides an alternative option for Fraser Valley guides and their clients in case conditions of nearby do not favour their trips.
A bait ban is in effect during this period due to the effectiveness of roe on coho salmon. Coho also have a tendency to swallow roe, which results in deep hooking and a possible increase of mortality rate. This would counter the effort in conserving the Interior coho salmon run.
Anglers are requested to use fishing methods that would specifically target chinook and chum salmon. We are requested, not limited, because coho salmon can be caught by all methods (barfishing, spincasting with lures). Although this is the case, what all should realize and should not ignore is the fact that the questioned method (bottom bouncing, or whatever you want to call it) has a higher tendency to foul hook fish. Foul hooked fish require longer fighting time, result in longer recovery time and possibly higher mortality rate.
The fortunate yet sad reality is that the protected populations make up an insignificant percentage of all the returning salmon during this management period, therefore the percentage of by-catch is in fact quite small. This does not suggest by-catch in the sportfishing sector is not a problem, because when a species is threatened, any mortality is a concern.
The point is, as an educated angler who is aware of the fragility of Interior coho salmon and late sockeye salmon runs, one should take these into consideration and practice fishing responsibly. Spincasting for coho salmon can actually be good in the tidal portion of the Fraser River around late September and early October, but many choose not to practice catching and releasing them because some of these fish being targeted are the ones that we are attempting to protect. Bait fishing for trout, char and steelhead is in fact not prohibited during this period, but one should not use it as a loop hole to target salmon with roe and claim to be fishing for trout, char and steelhead when being checked by conservation officers.
There are dedicated individuals on the SFACs who have worked hard to provide these additional salmon fishing opportunities for the angling community. It would be unfortunate if people choose to have these taken away by fishing however they prefer that may counter the conservation effort set out by Fisheries and Oceans Canada. Keep in mind that the goal here is to protect species, not to save fishing opportunities. The status of these species will indirectly impact your fishing opportunities. If their status eventually becomes endangered, then the only management measure would be no fishing for all species.
On a side note, there isn't a need to automatically make pressumption that most anglers would disregard the request and fish unselectively. Most who choose to do it would do it regardless and have to live with their action, so the typical "shaming" technique would only be repetitive and irritating to others who are actually willing to learn. The issue here is not just bottom bouncing, since as mentioned above, you can effectively target coho salmon by other methods if one chooses to. Some choose to bottom bounce or fishing unselectively by other methods because they have not been given all the information, you can assist them by being proactive in education.
Those who choose not to fish selectively regardless, there isn't a need to brag about it and justify it on the discussion forum by suggesting there are bigger threats on these protected populations. Such initiatives would only create a continuous bickering. Changes are made by small steps.
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It's quite clear actually. Bottom bouncing is a method that does catch sockeye and coho. Anglers are "requested" not to use such methods. Bar fishing with spin and glows (see "bait ban") is not a method normally used to catch sockeye and coho.
Not true. I have caught hundreds of coho on the Fraser using small blue coloured spin and glo (without roe) when bar fishing. It is even more effective than using roe.
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Methods aside, does this regulation mean you can still fish for springs from the Harrison boundary sign to Hope until end of this coming Wednesday, or is spring fishing closed at Sept 1 and on? This area is closed for salmon fishing from Thursday (sept 4) on, so is it still ok to target spring in this area? With sockeyes already closed, and coho off limit, the only fish available is springs. So, to say it is closed to salmon fishing from Sept 4, it is really saying springs will be closed too from Sept 4. So to me it means springs are still open until end of Sept 3. Does any one see this differently?
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It would appear that the salmon season ends Steelhawk at the end of this Wed. And yes, salmon season is still open till the end of Sept. 3.
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I should of mentioned only in the area you are speaking of.
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Thanks Athezone. The regulation is quite confusing. This link to the Supplement of fresh water synosis seems to point to August 31 as the end of Chinook rentention for the Fraser: http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/recfish/Freshwater/region2_e.htm
But the fishery notice as shown at the top of this thread obviously say chinook fishing is allowed past August 31 in the section between Mission & the sign 3 km above Harrison. It also is quite clear about a salmon closure from the sign 3 km above Harrison to the bridge in Hope from Sept 4 to Oct 6. But it is vague if chinook is open or not in other areas of the Fraser from now to end of Sept 3. My point is, if chinook is closed at the end of August (as mentioned in the supplement), then why need to say closure to salmon fishing as of Sept 4? There is no other fish still allowed to retain except chiinook at this time, so if Chinook is closed as of end of August, why bother to say no fishing for salmon from Sept 4? Unless they mean you can still fish for chinook until end of Sept 3.
Oh well, I will be heading out tommorow, and I hope the CO can explain the regulations better if they think otherwise.
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Actually, based on the two fishery notices (FN0567 (http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=111470&ID=recreational) and FN0641 (http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=112020&ID=recreational)), there is actually no retention of chinook salmon allowed after September 1st except the retention opportunities listed in FN0641.
FN0567 indicates chinook salmon retention opening until August 31st.
FN0641 indicates chinook salmon retention allowed from September 4th for the area between Mission and Harrison, and no salmon fishing upstream from it.
It is most likely a mistake, but one would be risking it by assuming that it is a mistake if he or she chooses to be out retaining a chinook salmon or two between September 1st and 3rd. I was going to suggest that you print out FN0641 and carry it in case an officer checks you between September 1st and 3rd, but that notice would in fact indicates that you are retaining a chinook salmon illegally.
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Thanks Rod, it is so confusing. I mean , why can't they speak in plain english. It can't be that hard for them. (Oh, YES It IS).
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Seems pretty clear to me.
Below mission bridge there is only selective fishing for chinook and chum and no bait between midnight sept 2 and oct 3
between mission bridge and 3km above harrison there is only selective fishing for chinook and chum and no bait between midnight sept 4 and oct 3
between 3km above harrison and hwy 1 bridge hope there no salmon fishing between midnight sept 4 and oct 6
between hwy 1 bridge hope and Sawmill creek there no salmon fishing between midnight sept 6 and oct 9.
So the river is divided into specific blocks with variations in the regs. Just note what block you are in.
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Glog: I was wondering about that too, but I read over the notices and Rod is right. As the notices read, fishing on the Nontidal section of the Fraser River from above the Mission Bridge to the markers above the Harrison River, you will be able to retain Chinook salmon once again on Thursday, Sept. 4th. As Rod pointed out to be safe one could phone the DFO Line, or leave them a message asking if this is a typo error. If not, then you can fish but not retain a chinook till this coming Thursday, as per the wording of the notice.
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i sure hope this does not lead to a bunch of people coming down to the area around island 22 to start bottom bouncing.
as a mindless person who has a great time bar fishing and enjoying a nice relaxing day on the river i would sure not to see it destroyed by the bottom bouncers. it is a sad day when so much of the river gets closed down by one group.
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Whadya mean "one group"?
If the river gets closed for ANY reason it can be categorized as being because of some one "group" or another. During my 45+ years of fishing the Fraser pretty near every group has been the cause of a closure: commercial over fishing, forestry, recreational fishing practices, train derailments.... Please don't inferr that one particular type of tackle is detrimental to the whole Sockeye or Coho population.
Even if there were 1,000 Rec. fishers out every day, for 2 full months, and we each took home a fish EVERY DAY, that's only 60,000 fish! Two fish a day, EVERY DAY would still only be 120,000 fish. 1 well run hatchery can easily replace that.
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Well I know what it means to me. I know it means that since I don't have a boat, I am screwed. >:( It means that all the guides and anyone with a boat can continue to fish, but those few of us who need foot access cannot. All the foot access bars are above the Harrison. The few that were below the Harrison, like Island 22 and Peg Leg, are not accessible because of erosion and high water. It seems that the few who fished the foot access bars are the big threat to the fish stock, at least according to DFO. >:( ???
I am done! >:(
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at least Chinuk and Chum are still open...
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Well I know what it means to me. I know it means that since I don't have a boat, I am screwed. >:( It means that all the guides and anyone with a boat can continue to fish, but those few of us who need foot access cannot. All the foot access bars are above the Harrison. The few that were below the Harrison, like Island 22 and Peg Leg, are not accessible because of erosion and high water. It seems that the few who fished the foot access bars are the big threat to the fish stock, at least according to DFO. >:( ???
I am done! >:(
Sorry to say but the closure is not about you, but about the fish. The only stocks left in harvestable numbers in DFO's run size assessment are stocks swimming into the Harrison and Vedder rivers. All the fish headed upstream past your accessable fishing spots are too few in numbers to allow a harvest. Maybe try looking on the north side of the river about dewdney slough for a place to bar fish. DFO has asked for sport fishers to use selective methods so you really don't need a bar to go and bottom bounce on and a place like Wing Dam fishes a spin n glo well.
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The fish have to go past all of those boats, nets and fishers on all those bars only accessible by boat downstream from Harrison. Those stocks of fish only become threatened when they swim past the Harrison? ??? ??? Sounds like a lot of DFO psychobabble.
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I am with you Eddy. This whole thing of closure in that upper section is just another example of DFO trying to unjustly and unfairly limit fishing opportunity to fishers who do not have boat and who cannot compete with locals for a bar fishing spots around Chilliwack.
What kind of damage for the upper river stock can be done by BBers? If you look at the test fishery, the spring count is out of the roof right now. The run is strong so what can the BBers do to damage that stock? The test fishery itself takes way more fish than any bar I know of (I have yet to see 80+ springs taken in any bar in a single day). Why not shut down the test fishery then?
If the sockeye survival study is any indication, most fish caught by BBers survive when released. How many coho have been hooked by BBer and die? Don't know, because none were caught in the bar I fished that I know of in the first place. Even sockeye incidental catch is now rare. So what harm can BBers do to Thompson coho? We don't use bait so nothing is inhaled deeply to harm any fish accidentally caught.
Ah, but the springs are plentiful and once again we are shafted by DFO to stop fishing for no obvious reason. This is not a vent for personal reasons as I have taken enough springs for the season, but it is so upsetting that DFO is once again oblivious to the obligation to provide fair fishing oppprtunity to licensed fishers in good faith when our impact is so minimal. >:( We are managed to death for minimal benefit to the fish stock while those deadly nets are still allowed to roam the Fraser. Pathetic.
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below the Harrison the fish are mixed in with the other , stronger stocks. The overall lenght of river to fish and volume of fish caught would have a small harvest that DFO has most likely accounted for. Once the fish are above the Harrison there will be almost 100% up river stocks that can no longer sustain a harvest once you factor in the few fish taken below. All the fish in the test fishery could be Harrison and Vedder stoocks and very few upper Fraser fish. The BBers have had a long enough season and most should have caught their uearly limit by now.Eliminate the test fishery to save those fish and then you would only have DFO guessing how many are coming through and no chance of know true run size. It's really too bad for those that want to fish up river and I am one of those that do.
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What kind of damage for the upper river stock can be done by BBers?
There was between 70-100 Springs taken off Spaghetti Bar alone during the last 2 days of the season (Tues,Wed)
That's just one bar, and just 2 days...all BBers.
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RG, don't insult our intelligence. We fish to you know. Some people. ::) ::) ::)
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There was between 70-100 Springs taken off Spaghetti Bar alone during the last 2 days of the season (Tues,Wed)
That's just one bar, and just 2 days...all BBers.
If you are reporting what someone told you, let me tell you it's bull droppings. Don't believe everything people say.
If you were there and you saw it with your own eyes, let me tell you that you are either numerically challenged or prone to hallucinations.
Been there, saw only a small fraction of 100 caught.
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Who said anything about BB'ing?
Fishing is closed 3 Km above the Harrison. People do bar fish above and BELOW the Harrison. Does anyone really believe that all those boats and bar fishers below the Harrison are now spin and glowing. Most boats still BB. I've seen them. They're funny to watch trying to land a fish on their long leaders, even with a net.
I have news for DFO. The fish, all of the fish, come from the OCEAN. All the boats and bar fishers below Harrison will continue to do whatever they have been doing every year. There will be a lot of them. There are a lot of good bars below Harrison, but they are only accessible by boat.
Another thing. I was talking to a FN lady last week end in Hope. Her husband fishes with nets. She said that Hells Gate the nets are set for sockeye, ie. they are small, because they don't want any more springs. They just want sockeye and coho. Jacks, they'll keep those too, especially if they're white. FN prefer white to red.
I'm not FN bashing. The courts have said FN have certain rights to fish. No problem. But don't try and sell the BS that fish above the Harrison are threatened. If they are, CLOSE THE RIVER ALL THE WAY TO THE THOMPSON. FOR EVERYONE!
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There was between 70-100 Springs taken off Spaghetti Bar alone during the last 2 days of the season (Tues,Wed)
That's just one bar, and just 2 days...all BBers.
If you are reporting what someone told you, let me tell you it's bull droppings. Don't believe everything people say.
If you were there and you saw it with your own eyes, let me tell you that you are either numerically challenged or prone to hallucinations.
Been there, saw only a small fraction of 100 caught.
We're you paying attention to what was going on?
From the around the corner at the top end where there are guys standing on the shore, all the way down to the last guy anchored, the amount of fish that came out of there this season was incredible. Tuesday alone saw at least 40, maybe more. The guides come in and out with multiple customers. Most of them got fish too, not to mention the guys above fishing from shore that you couldn't see. That gravel bar at the top was hot the last 3 weeks.
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You guys have forgotten rule #1 about internet fishing sites. Never name a spot where fishing is hot. Good luck fishing there next year. If you can find room that is.
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You guys have forgotten rule #1 about internet fishing sites. Never name a spot where fishing is hot. Good luck fishing there next year. If you can find room that is.
That place has been a GONG SHOW for at least the past 8+ years.......