Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: jaez270 on April 27, 2009, 12:28:02 PM
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Just looking to see if anyone has had any experience fishing the Clearwater for Chinooks.
There is a season in Aug.
Just curious about numbers,.
Any help would be great.
Thanks and Tight lines!!
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Clearwater? is that a river ? maybe a little more info..
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Yes. I fished it for red springs a bit below Wells Gray Provincial Park. I tried it only once about 6 years ago. This fish, after traveling over 1000km is worn and tired. Not much fight in them left. Their meat if firm but they look like old boots from the Vedder, even worse than Shuswap river springs from Enderby area.
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Hey fellow anglers
Have some respect for these unique fish. Give them a break - don't fish them. When they hit the Clearwater they have travelled a long, long way, often times through warmer water than optimal; they are basically living in their final days. They are there to spawn. Let them.
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i used to fish them. but do not anymore, i fear that there numbers have drastically declined in the years since it was opened to retention of these springs. they are a very large fish, generally average 25 lbs and as someone said earlier, are a bit red, and probably lost a few pounds with the long travel. i have seen numerous over 40lbs. all fish except 1 , that i or my group have caught have all been white springs. there used to be hatchery production on the river years ago, but it has long been stopped. i have emailed a fellow from dfo a few years ago requesting the fishery be cancelled, when my personal observations noted the numbers crash..but he says there was enough for the opening? maybe he fears taking the fishery away, would not be good...as it would take many referals to various groups to ever get it back? it does not seem quite right to have a kill fishery this far up in the interior without any hatchery? last year i believe there was a maximum size on the fish that could be kept (around 15lbs?)? cannot remember now, but maybe that was dfos way of limiting the kill of the fish...as our groups have caught and landed 100 fish..and only 1 was 15 lbs..rest were 20s or more. the fish that was 15 lbs was a red spring. anyway..my 2 cents.
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they are a red fleshed strain of chinook. The reason you encountered white flesh is because the fish are well past their prime. (as a mature salmon spends more time in fresh water their meet starts to deteriorate and fade in colour)
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What sort of technique would a guy use to catch them?
Do standard tactics apply ie: plunking, drift fishing?
My uncle said he used to catch them on anchovies, plunking.
Or is there a bait ban in effect?
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I would personally ignore these spawning fish and target the rather large trout feeding on their eggs directly behind them. Saw this on a fishing show (sport fishing on the fly) a couple years back and they were getting some big trout :o seems like more fun to me then harrassing a spawning salmon.
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What sort of technique would a guy use to catch them?
Do standard tactics apply ie: plunking, drift fishing?
My uncle said he used to catch them on anchovies, plunking.
Or is there a bait ban in effect?
Sorry bud but I don't think you will get much help here. Harassing spawning fish with most people on this site is a big nono and so it should be. Let them be and find another option, it is not ethical to harass fish when they are spawning or setting up to spawn. Whats the point? the meat will be no good and C&R on fish that high up and that far past it's prime will probably result in higher than normal mortality rates. Like HOOK said go for the trout feasting on eggs.
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Wow, seems like we've touched on a nerve.
All I asked for was information don't really care about whether or not you think people should fish for spawning salmon.
DFO seems to think there is a reason to have a season.
So mellow out everybody and lets share some info.
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Wow, seems like we've touched on a nerve.
All I asked for was information don't really care about whether or not you think people should fish for spawning salmon.
DFO seems to think there is a reason to have a season.
So mellow out everybody and lets share some info.
Well we are all entitled to our own opinions.
I highly doubt someone will tell you how to fish for spawning salmon.
DFO have their heads up their *** sorry to tell you. Sockeye salmon numbers are plummeting 20 000 000, 10 000 000, 2 000 000 (opening).
What the hell is wrong with them. Just because it is legal does not mean it is right.
Think about why you would want to fish for them.
If it's for meat, well I highly doubt they are even ok for the smoker.
If it's for sport the trout will probably put up more of a fight than a spawning fish.
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Here are the escapement numbers between 1994 and 2008 of Clearwater chinook salmon, which may give you an idea on the population size and the trend of the returns.
| Year | 1994 | 1995 | 1996 | 1997 | 1998 | 1999 | 2000 | 2001 | 2002 | 2003 | 2004 | 2005 | 2006 | 2007 | 2008 |
| Escapement | 5450 | 5100 | 7780 | 7830 | 7007 | 3837 | 4563 | 5051 | 5689 | 6234 | 4622 | 3519 | 3768 | 1895 | 3307 |
My uncle said he used to catch them on anchovies, plunking.
The use of finfish, live or dead, is prohibited.
Or is there a bait ban in effect?
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/docs/0911/fish-synopsis_2009-11_region3.pdf
Check under "Clearwater River".
I wouldn't go as far as telling others not to target them when an opening is available, it's not in my place to do so. The quality of the fishery, as some have already pointed out, cannot be compared to the coastal fisheries due to the state of these fish after having travelled such long distance and almost or already reaching their spawning ground. The opening is mainly to accommodate Interior BC residents who have limited opportunities to target coastal salmon. Travelling up from the coast to target these chinook would be like travelling from Interior BC to Vancouver to target catchable rainbow trout. On the other hand, excellent trout and char catch and release fisheries are available at Clearwater and nearby watersheds so one should take advantage of that when visiting the area.
Even though an opening for chinook salmon is listed, it is very like that it will change as the season approaches. The forecast for 2009's summer chinook runs in Upper & Mid Fraser, North Thompson is in category one, which means the stock is (or is forecast to be) less than 25% of target or is declining rapidly.
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those are some bleak numbers you posted up there Rod :(
I know myself have been trying to get myself up to this river while the salmon are spawning. the reason for this is to target the big trout and i mean big, on the show i saw they cause one that was around 8lbs !! but on average they were 3-5lbs ;D still a riot compared to fighting a half dead salmon. trout will pound for pound out fight a salmon alot of the time ;) especially in rivers.
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jaez270 is probably a BASS fisherman, those people will fish for anything. ;D ;D Even chum with the bones showing. ;D
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Sorry Rod I do agree it is not really my place to tell someone whether or not to fish an opening when it is perfectly legal under our laws. Sharing info on the other I won't do and I see he posted on another site and kind of got the same response. Judging by his response he's going to go out and do it anyway :'( :'(.
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lets hope if he does that he leaves the sockeye leaders at home then ::) ::) I mean why not target the trout??? you still catch some of the salmon also i mean thinking that you wont is just silly but at the same time you will be having more fun catching fish that are actually feeding.
think of it this way, Would you want someone to come grab you in the middle of having sex ? especially when its the only time in your life you will get to before you die. alot of times when you remove a salmon of its red they cant or dont pair back up but instead disturb other fish on their reds :'( and inturn ruining two beds of eggs instead of 0
and YES i also agree that its not my place to tell someone how to or where to fish when its fine by our laws to do so however i can continue to suggest that its wrong ;) especially when there is a better fishing opportunity to be had.
didnt someone post that there was size restrictions which basically made the opening seem rediculous because the vast majority of fish are over this size allowance???? If this is the case then its even dumber to have an opening because so many fish will be disturbed while people pound the water hoping for that one fish that of proper size :'( :'( sad really. I mean i drive to the interior for good trout fishing(bigger and better fighting) why cant they drive here if they want some salmon?? im sure alot do. i have met people from Kelowna, Vernon and even a couple places further that were down on DAY TRIPS just to fish some salmon and they werent even keeping anything !!! and this was mostly on the Squamish not the Vedder. thats like a 5-6hour drive :o
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Fishing for spawning fish....
how is that in any way something that people should not speak up against??? It's not a case of legality but a basic respect for the future of salmon, period. We learned back when we were 6 that it was not OK to bother spawning fish....some people have thicker skulls I guess and it takes a little longer for the message to get through.
there are plenty of cases in life where legality and basic ethics do not coincide.
You would speak up against somebody running up and down a run chasing fish while people are fishing, or throwing rocks in a stream while people are trying to fish.....this is 10x more important to hammer home.
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lets hope if he does that he leaves the sockeye leaders at home then ::) ::)
Answer the poster's question, provide the information needed, hope that they can make sound decisions instead of making stereotyping comments like this on people who you completely don't know, especially if you are trying to persuade others that you are correct.
The poster is unaware of the fishery, that's why a question is asked. I'd like to provide the background information, show him what better fisheries are available in the area and give him the benefit of doubt. Whatever he chooses to do is up to him and I'll sleep just as soundly at night knowing that he's been given the information.
Several points:
The problem , if there is a problem, sits at those who provide an opening for the public.
There is a monthly quota to limit catches.
The opening is for the month of August, before these fish are completely in spawning mode.
From the management perspective, having an opening in natal streams results in a higher chance of reaching the target escapement than a blanket opening in the ocean where both healthy and vulnerable runs of salmon are targeted.
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Fishing for spawning fish....
how is that in any way something that people should not speak up against??? It's not a case of legality but a basic respect for the future of salmon, period. We learned back when we were 6 that it was not OK to bother spawning fish....some people have thicker skulls I guess and it takes a little longer for the message to get through.
there are plenty of cases in life where legality and basic ethics do not coincide.
You would speak up against somebody running up and down a run chasing fish while people are fishing, or throwing rocks in a stream while people are trying to fish.....this is 10x more important to hammer home.
Did someone not speak up about here??? I think everyone here has made their opinion pretty clear as to whether or not they think he should fish for them which is our moral/ethical stance on the issue. I just dont have the right to tell him not to fish for them as our laws say that he can, that issue should be brought up with the higher ups who have the power to change whether he can or not.
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i was just kidding about the leader thing Rodney, why else do you think i added rolling eyes after it ;) I mean the Clearwater isnt a big river so a leader like that would not be needed, period.
you want us to answer his question?? well im sure we have asnwered it from our stand point. I did say target the trout and you will still catch some of the salmon didnt I ?
If i was there fishing i would be using Glo bugs, trout beads, salmon beads and things like that. of course i would be fly fishing. If gear fishing i would just drift with - small float, small weight (splitshot probably), small hook(size 4) and then wool in various colours cut very small like 1 big chinook egg.
there is some info for you. as to where to fish, I have no clue try exploring a map or get up there and explore the river. buy a backroad mapbook it will help you out loads.
Rod you make a valid point that the opening is slightly before the salmon start digging reds however they are pairing up at this time and some will be in full spawn mode im sure. If you are going to fish there keep your eyes peeled for fish that are doing their thing and try and leave them alone. If you are catching really dark fish (say 3 or so) then try moving to another spot because that spot is probably just all spawners or to shallow to hold fresh fish(i do this on the Vedder and other places)
I still strongly disagree with this whole thing but i can be the bigger man by ponying up a bit of useful info that may or may not help. Oh and one more thing if you do come across a very large pool dont be shy to toss big silver lures because chinook love them ;) or at least on the coast they do.
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oh and just incase you didnt look at Rodney's link this is what the regulations say.
CLEARWATER RIVER
No fishing above old Clearwater Bridge, Jan 1-July 15
Below old Clearwater Bridge, open July 1-Apr 30
Bait ban (a) from Falls Creek to Mahood River, all year, and (b) from Mahood River to N. Thompson River, Sept 1-July 31
No angling from powered boats below Falls Creek
Trout/char release
and this is what it says in the Salmon Supplement
Clearwater River
from Clearwater Lake downstream to the confluence of the North Thompson R. (except CLOSED from Murtle R. downstream to 35 km post from Aug 16 - 31 to protect Mahood R. chinook)
Chinook Aug 01-Aug 31 4 per day, only 2 over 50 cm. Monthly quota is 4 over 50 cm, including adult chinook caught and retained from North Thompson R.
All Sep 01-Dec 31 No fishing for salmon.
now i dont know how knowladgeable you are about salmon sizes but that not a very good opening for sure and just doesnt seem worth it to me but there is the info for everyone to see.
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Fishing for spawning fish....
how is that in any way something that people should not speak up against??? It's not a case of legality but a basic respect for the future of salmon, period. We learned back when we were 6 that it was not OK to bother spawning fish....some people have thicker skulls I guess and it takes a little longer for the message to get through.
there are plenty of cases in life where legality and basic ethics do not coincide.
You would speak up against somebody running up and down a run chasing fish while people are fishing, or throwing rocks in a stream while people are trying to fish.....this is 10x more important to hammer home.
Did someone not speak up about here??? I think everyone here has made their opinion pretty clear as to whether or not they think he should fish for them which is our moral/ethical stance on the issue. I just dont have the right to tell him not to fish for them as our laws say that he can, that issue should be brought up with the higher ups who have the power to change whether he can or not.
I just don't think you should apologize for being vocal about something you feel is wrong and choose to speak up about. It is the easy way out to lean back on the law / regs and let it make decisions for you. By August we all know what shape those fish will be in, that far up the system.....I totally agree with your first post...people SHOULD just leave them alone. Nothing wrong with saying that, it's just your opinion. But the trout fishing.......thats another story !!! That sounds like a lot of fun, some big dollies in there too I would wager.
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i have fished trout in the river as well. pretty good, i never caught any monsters. lots 10-14 inches. the salmon in the river are not the really dark spawners most are alluding too...they usually have dark green backs and some show no pink or red coloring. some are even what i may say are pretty silver. they do not spawn until later in the fall. while i only fished from the 2nd week on...and i agree that the fish come a long long way...i am not sure someone earlier can tell me that the springs that i retained in the past are red springs that the flesh has decayed and turned white. if i was better on this computer i would start a thread asking what a red and white spring differences are and where they are in the province? we only have kept about half of the fish we caught over the years and only one had red flesh. all was firm and tastey? does anybody have info where reds and whites are? anyways thanks.
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i have fished trout in the river as well. pretty good, i never caught any monsters. lots 10-14 inches. the salmon in the river are not the really dark spawners most are alluding too...they usually have dark green backs and some show no pink or red coloring. some are even what i may say are pretty silver. they do not spawn until later in the fall. while i only fished from the 2nd week on...and i agree that the fish come a long long way...i am not sure someone earlier can tell me that the springs that i retained in the past are red springs that the flesh has decayed and turned white. if i was better on this computer i would start a thread asking what a red and white spring differences are and where they are in the province? we only have kept about half of the fish we caught over the years and only one had red flesh. all was firm and tastey? does anybody have info where reds and whites are? anyways thanks.
Red and White Springs are 2 different breeds of fish.
Some argue that whites just simply cannot absorb the pigment in their flesh, I'm pretty sure they are a different species.
There are many different theories, etc about Red vs White springs (I believe there is another thread that went into depth).
It IS possible that the flesh has deteriorated to the point of becoming white.
These fish may have had Red flesh from their food at the beginning of the journey, but its been 1000's of km's since they ate.
The reason these fish are so large is probably because they are the only ones with enough fat reserves to get high enough up the rivers.
Esentially fish early in the season (fresh out of ocean or from ocean) are way better to eat, once fish hit freshwater they start to "eat" themselves (fat reserves).
I have caught many pink salmon in the Vedder in early august (picking on pinks as an example, have gotten other fish as well), ones that are so chrome you cannot tell whether they are males or not, sometimes you even have a hard time telling them from a coho. I have noticed ALL of these early (August) fish have had very deep red flesh, not quite coho colour but close. You start catching these guys in the end of August to End of September and the flesh is MUCH paler, almost a whity-pink colour.
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i have fished trout in the river as well. pretty good, i never caught any monsters. lots 10-14 inches. the salmon in the river are not the really dark spawners most are alluding too...they usually have dark green backs and some show no pink or red coloring. some are even what i may say are pretty silver. they do not spawn until later in the fall. while i only fished from the 2nd week on...and i agree that the fish come a long long way...i am not sure someone earlier can tell me that the springs that i retained in the past are red springs that the flesh has decayed and turned white. if i was better on this computer i would start a thread asking what a red and white spring differences are and where they are in the province? we only have kept about half of the fish we caught over the years and only one had red flesh. all was firm and tastey? does anybody have info where reds and whites are? anyways thanks.
Red and White Springs are 2 different breeds of fish.
Some argue that whites just simply cannot absorb the pigment in their flesh, I'm pretty sure they are a different species.
There are many different theories, etc about Red vs White springs (I believe there is another thread that went into depth).
It IS possible that the flesh has deteriorated to the point of becoming white.
These fish may have had Red flesh from their food at the beginning of the journey, but its been 1000's of km's since they ate.
The reason these fish are so large is probably because they are the only ones with enough fat reserves to get high enough up the rivers.
Esentially fish early in the season (fresh out of ocean or from ocean) are way better to eat, once fish hit freshwater they start to "eat" themselves (fat reserves).
I have caught many pink salmon in the Vedder in early august (picking on pinks as an example, have gotten other fish as well), ones that are so chrome you cannot tell whether they are males or not, sometimes you even have a hard time telling them from a coho. I have noticed ALL of these early (August) fish have had very deep red flesh, not quite coho colour but close. You start catching these guys in the end of August to End of September and the flesh is MUCH paler, almost a whity-pink colour.
i wouldnt say red and whites are different species, they are both chinook. the difference IMO is in what they eat
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nope ....not food its genetics. ;)
so what is a marbel?........a fish that eats a little of everything..... :-*
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Well gentlemen that was an enlightening thread.
The matter of fact is i'm from Edmonton, so fishing anywhere in your greeat province is a drive.
I do thank everyone for their input cept for the guy that called me a Bass Fisherman.
That was low dude.
Never ever fished a bass before, probably never will.
Walleye, perch, Sturgeon and Whitefish on the other hand are in my Dictionary.
Maybe i'll have to give the trout a whirl kinda had my heart set on a salmon though.
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Nice to see you are such a good sport about it.Seriously come out to the coast during the early fall salmon season and experience it.You will have a blast.This being a pink year there will be even more opportunities than usual.
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Jaez I would definatley come out here for the salmon season. Between mid and late september there will be tonnes of fish in the Vedder, and pretty much all other rivers of the area. It will definatley be worth the drive, since you will probably be getting 30+ fish a day since the pinks are running, might even pick up a bullet spring if you fish the right spots ;)
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and i would bet some of us would hit the river with you and show you around on the flow.
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Well thats why i was asking questions.
I've got a but load of gear, so i'm pretty much able to fish any technique.
But I am limited to river shore fishing for the time being.
I did some research into The Vedder, but i'm not much for crowds.
That's what icefishing whitefish is like, tent to tent can't even take a leak without flashing someone............lol
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Oh and here's one a little off the wall.
Never had to use single hooks before.
The open eyed Siwash hooks that come with the blue fox pixies, are the eyes ment to be closed after you put them on the split ring?
Might seem stupid but i've never had to use them before and the package doesn't specify.
Lil help here.............lol
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Yep, close the eye, unless you only want to catch and release. ;)
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nope ....not food its genetics. ;)
so what is a marbel?........a fish that eats a little of everything..... :-*
wrong.
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so you mean to tell me if you take a harrison white and feed it shrimp it will be a red? ::) I know a little about this kingy , I would love to see some of your proof.
try the google button, it tells alot about red/white genitics.