Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: fishseeker on September 27, 2009, 03:44:13 PM
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I was out on the Vedder with my wife last Friday last week and had a great time. It was very humbling because she outfished me with five pinks to my three ;D(..and, yes, I know people are catching many more than that in a single day).
Anyway, she is a very observant person and noted how one guy next to us was doing so much better so I went and asked him his secret and he told me to use a very small omount of red wool no larger than a pea...well and good (we were using jigs). My wife then pointed out that we must be doing it all wrong because I had been encouraging her to maintain a natural drift with the float more or less vertical and the hook about a foot or two off the bottom..just like I had read in Rodneys articles and done with modest success before. The guy next to us was using a different approch: a) was fishing with longer leader and b) holding back on the float so that it was pointing at a steep angle towards him. Everyone I observe, including very experienced fishermen, seem to fish this way and I appear to be one of the few who tries to maintain a natural drift with the float remaining vertical for most of the drift. Two questions:
a) Am I doing something completely wrong here? There was no doubt the other guy was hooking into a lot more than us but I am pretty sure they were body shots most of the time. [when I tried to explain this to my wife she figured it was just sour grapes because we were catching less :P. She is a lady of little faith in my fishing abilities ;D]
b) I am also ashamed to admit that I accidentally snagged 3 and legitimately hooked the other three. To a large degree I avoided snagging by fishing the faster water and staying away from areas where they were obviously just milling about in large schools as sitting ducks for any hooks that might be dragged through. Even so, it was hard to avoid and a pain in the butt when I did because it is virtually impossible to haul them in against the current when the body of the fish is horizontal to it.
c) My wife only foul hooked one out of the five she landed - I think because I had her using a jig with an upward pointing hook.
Any thoughts on a) how I can improve my technique and, more importantly, how I can minimise foul hooking when using a normal hook. [..I have heard suggestions that I can bend the point more towards the shank but I am not sure how good the hook sets are with legitimate bites with that approach].
My setup: float, lead so that 1 to 2cm remains above water, swivel, 2 feet leader, hook. (Sometimes I put a little split shot about 6cm above the hook just to make sure it goes down rather than wrapping around the main line)
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Try using spoons 2-3' from float. Keep in slight current to give action to lure and with out droping it onto/snagging pinks. You should have very low foul hooks this way and still get bites. Jigs are not the best as they do tend to snag a little easier due to there design.
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If you think he was flossing/ sweeping the bottom then he probably was. There are just so many pinks in the Vedder right now that if you are allowing your jig to float 1-2 feet off the bottom you are definately going to encounter foul hook ups, nothing you can do, just an overwhelming amount of fish.
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if you don't mind catching less fish, here is what I do...
I fish with float and blade, 12"-15" leader with blade. Set the float and weight so that it is way above the school of fish. You will know if you are feeling bumps, that means your blade is still hanging over the back of the fish. Once your blade is drifting above the fish, the fish has to come up and hammar the blade.
You will catch much less fish than the guy next to you. But you are going to catch mostly fish that actually after your presentation. My kids had fun being able to reel in pinks hooked by the mouth yesterday. And I have seen the person next to us being exhausted trying to get a pink off because it was hooked over the back, fin, tail, and everywhere while my kids were reeling them in in less than a minute...
But you will catch less fish but more fun knowing that you are getting fish that bite.
By the way, everyone next to us was using float (6' from the bonucing betty), and 10 feet of leader, fishing in less than 4-5' of water. I pulled my kids away from them cause they were constantly ripped their rods at the end of the drift...
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I can tell you that you shouldnt ever need to add the split shot by your hook. this will just cause foul hooks ups or your hook to travel under the fish. when i hit a run i havent hit yet that year (because of river changes) I play around with float to lead depths until i find the active striking depth. I short float and have never added weight to leaders even when using just wool. A good thing to do to find depth fast is look at the water and guess what depth you "think" it might be, set it there. if your not on bottom reel in right away and try going longer & longer each cast until you just start hitting bottom, then reel in and lessen the length by a couple feet, this will assuse you that your only 2 feet off bottom. IF you are fishing something heavier like jigs or roe then take into account the length of your leader to the bottom as these things cause your entire presentation to hang almost vertical. With wool especially you need to have your weight down a bit more then with heavier things, with blades i set myself almost on the bottom however i hold back on the drift so that the blade will spin in the current(you want to hold back so you can feel the blade spinning usually) when doing this it will left you up a foot or two from bottom ;)
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I can tell you that you shouldnt ever need to add the split shot by your hook. this will just cause foul hooks ups or your hook to travel under the fish. when i hit a run i havent hit yet that year (because of river changes) I play around with float to lead depths until i find the active striking depth. I short float and have never added weight to leaders even when using just wool. A good thing to do to find depth fast is look at the water and guess what depth you "think" it might be, set it there. if your not on bottom reel in right away and try going longer & longer each cast until you just start hitting bottom, then reel in and lessen the length by a couple feet, this will assuse you that your only 2 feet off bottom. IF you are fishing something heavier like jigs or roe then take into account the length of your leader to the bottom as these things cause your entire presentation to hang almost vertical. With wool especially you need to have your weight down a bit more then with heavier things, with blades i set myself almost on the bottom however i hold back on the drift so that the blade will spin in the current(you want to hold back so you can feel the blade spinning usually) when doing this it will left you up a foot or two from bottom ;)
Thats a good summary of how to do it. I do it pretty much the same. Another way to do it quickly is this. Dont attach your leader and just use your float, weight and swivel. Cast out and find bottom with your weight. Now once you find bottom you can adjust your float a foot or two so that your not touching bottom, attach your leader and your now fishing above the fish.
Just like Hook said if fishing with jigs than do the same but leave the jig on, find bottom than adjust your float. With wool and roe I dont find that it brings it down much but if your using spinners or spoons with weight it will cause it to bring it down further. Ideally you want to be a few inches above the fish.
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here is the best peice of fishing knowledge
fish look AHEAD and UP
NOT down
make sure your presentation is above the fish, not much above them but above them.
All of us starting with the knowledge of the old saying "if your not losing gear your not in the zone" I heard this when i started smaller river fishing and so it has progressed from there. Yes i caught loads of fish like that but i also foul hooked loads of fish then too. Now i might only foul a handful of fish during an entire season. This year i have fouled 3 and 2 were pinks when i was reeling in, the other was a jack spring that stole my roe but i guess when i went for the hook set i got him by the front fin :( I know this because my roe was in its mouth still LOL but hey you foul hook fish from time to time. i have fouled them lake fishing a chironomid as well (stationary fly)
there is always new things to learn. not as many with gear fishing as there is with fly fishing however ;D
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Wow good for you that you stuck with proper drifting. Don't listen to your wife, she is dead wrong, it was not sour grapes on your part. Those other guys were just flossing(snagging) fish. Keep with your technique.
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When jig fishing this year I sat on a rock looking down at the fish and played with different things. I found that when fishing with the jig I'd see the fish circle the jig (in groups some times) and then dart at it and body check it or snap at it. I was wondering why I keep hooking fish in the sides often enough to make me wonder and it was the same area every time but I knew I wasn't snagging them hence taking a look on the rock.
It was like watching sharks at times when they would circle the jig and then attack.
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JUst read your article on shortfloating, I have but one question, are you sure its distance is float to hook?
Ive been told by a few people including one guide that the distance is float to weight, as that makes more sense when your
bait or lure is drifting the river.
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It's both.
Too long from float to weight and you're not floating... you're dredging.
Too long from weight to hook and they're not biting, you're flossing.
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Wow, this is a great response! Thanks a lot for all of your ideas - I am going to print out this thread when I get home and keep all your ideas in the front of my mind when I head out next time. The thing I enjoy most about fishing is trying something new every time I head out - most of the things are duds but every now and then I come up with some improvement. I think this response will help take some of the guesswork out of the process.
It appears from your answers that I have the basic thing right, just need to do some refinements to improve on it. To be honest I was perfectly happy with our lower catch rate because I knew it was all too easy to foul hook fish and it was the last thing I wanted to do - mainly because I lose gear that way. Once a heavy fish gets into that current side on I am usually screwed.
The thing that surprises me is I see (presumably more) experienced fishermen doing the very long leader / horizontal float thing and I think this gives many newbies and less experienced (aka. myself) fishermen the impression that this is the right way to do things. All I can say, from reading posts on this forum is don't be too hard on newer fishermen fishing this way - it seems to me we don't have the best examples to work with unless we are spending time doing research on forums like this.
...and as for my wife. Just glad she tolerates my hobby and very gamely joins me on these outings :) Next time she ribs me I will get her to watch the more productive guy next to us and ask her what percentage of fish are legitimately hooked.
One more little question: How much leader between the hook and the swivel? The guy next to me recommended about 3 feet but that just seemed too long - just tangled around my main line (esp if I didn't use a split shot which I will cease using from now on).
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I prefer a natural drift. As to foul hooking pinks, it's inevitable because there are tons in there right now. There's a few tips from other posters that can minimize foul hooking.
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By definition, short floating means to keep your offering off the bottom. In slow current, I set my distance between float and bait to be approximately 1 foot off bottom. However, in faster current, my distance between float to weight is approximately 1 foot off bottom. Cast upstream and "check" your float as it drifts past you to get your offering ahead of everything else.
I would highly recommend doing some visual testing. Go stand somewhere above the river where you can see bottom and your presentation.
And observe how your offering behaves as it drifts downstream. Depending on the current and what sort of offering you are using it will act differently. I use roe 90% of the time. It is quite buoyant. In faster current, it will stay level if not rise above your weights. In slow current, it will sink below your weights. You will be surprised how long it takes for roe to get down into the strike zone. It can take 5-6 seconds for it to get down and ahead of your weights. Furthermore, if you are short floating and you hold back even a little bit, it will raise your bait up to level with your weights. And depending on current it can even raise your weights. Its very touchy and best to visually see for yourself.
Short floating can be very affective. It is by far the easiest method for an entry level float fisher.
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It's both.
Too long from float to weight and you're not floating... you're dredging.
Too long from weight to hook and they're not biting, you're flossing.
Not true. There are numerous ways to float fish ethically. A few of them include having your weights bouncing or sitting on bottom. You can be too long from weight to float while holding back and not be dredging. Just as you can be too long from weight to hook and not be flossing.
It all depends on the technique you are using. Short floating is deadly. It will avoid foul hookups and is the easiest method to learn. But it does have its disadvantages.
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I was up there last wedsneday and i swear i was fishing right next to that same guy Don't be fooled he was fouling 70% of his catches.At the end of his run he would hold the line tight then pull up on his rod.I was right next to him fishing the same way you were and caught a little less than him but 70% were takes.
Also i am a newbie on this forum and have fished for 15 to 20 years, I'm the kind of guy who can't talk the talk but i know what to do.I just grab what i know i need and go.I hope this will help me get more educated and more fish.
Keep your lines tight.
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--similar problem drifting single egg pattern fly with sink tip.
--we are trying to catch trout that are after the floating eggs not the salmon.
--we either cast upstream and dead drift or downstream mending line to get the egg bouncing off the bottom
--as soon as you start swinging the line across water you will start flossing the salmon (which we don't want to do)
--in faster water you might want to try drop shot style with three way swivel..weight on bottom with spoon or spinner or single egg attached to three way above. Again have to get a dead drift..the egg or spinner should be directly downstream, can also use a tumbling spoon on this same rig. again we were using this rig for trout or whitefish. if you start ripping the line in on an angle you will start to snag fish you have to let the drift finish and bring line in directly upstream.
-- I reallies you guys might be fishing where it is crowded but as long as everyone is finishing their drift you won't hook each other either.
--we have the luxury of fishing with very few people around and know most of them.
--In our case most are laughing at the guy who screws up and snaggs a fish as that reduced their chance at the trout or whitefish.
--it takes practice and constant adjusting of your set up depending on speed and depth of the water line drag etc. the fine tuning is part of the fun of fishing.
--sounds to me you have the right attitude and real fishers should be willing to help you out.
--
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The setup doesnt define if the angler is flossing or snagging, the angler does. A typical setup can be used to floss or snag fish if the angler chooses even while short floating.
--I agree: have been fishing same rig as partner but as he was getting a better verticle drift he was not snagging the fish. As i was casting across him getting more swing with same rig I was starting to floss fish. I had to adjust my cast to get a better verticle drift. I of course let the flossed fish go and while it was using up valuable fishing time my partner caught two legit hooked fish
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b) I am also ashamed to admit that I accidentally snagged 3
Don't let it bother you. With so many pinks in the river, it is bound to happen with even the best of intentions.
To avoid snagging pinks, one technique (that is certainly not foolproof) is to observe how your float submerges. If it eases under slowly, and/or on angle, then generally (sometimes, maybe) the fish has just brushed up against your leader and setting the hook is just asking for a snagged fish. If your float darts under quickly then generally (sometimes, maybe) the fish is on the bait. Now these aren't truisms but generally speaking it works.
The key however is the angler's tolerance for risk and ambiguity. If you have a low tolerance you will set the hook at every dip of the float that you know isn't bottom. If you have a higher tolerance, and are tired of hauling in pinks sideways, you start to read what your float is telling you.
Another application of this technique is drifting little tufts of wool through the massed chums to get the the coho that are behind feeding on the loose eggs.
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I'm going to try short floating with some yarn, I picked up a little packet of orange and red yarn, but what are you guys' recommendations as far as how to present the yarn?
I've never used yarn before and I'm not even sure where to put it..
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Just insert a small tuft into the bait loop
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Don't let it bother you. With so many pinks in the river, it is bound to happen with even the best of intentions.
To avoid snagging pinks, one technique (that is certainly not foolproof) is to observe how your float submerges. If it eases under slowly, and/or on angle, then generally (sometimes, maybe) the fish has just brushed up against your leader and setting the hook is just asking for a snagged fish. If your float darts under quickly then generally (sometimes, maybe) the fish is on the bait. Now these aren't truisms but generally speaking it works.
The key however is the angler's tolerance for risk and ambiguity. If you have a low tolerance you will set the hook at every dip of the float that you know isn't bottom. If you have a higher tolerance, and are tired of hauling in pinks sideways, you start to read what your float is telling you.
Another application of this technique is drifting little tufts of wool through the massed chums to get the the coho that are behind feeding on the loose eggs.
Thanks Clarki. Unfortunately I am a 'low tolerance' fisherman and I will snap back the rod almost on reflex if I see the float go under for any reason. This could be one reason my wife sometimes out fishes me with this technique - she doesn't have quite my level of enthusiasm and will be slower on the strike, works in her favor I think :) Its something I will have to learn with practice.
PS: Your comment about coho feeding on the loose eggs is an interesting one. Do salmon in rivers actively feed? Thought they took mainly out of aggression when things pass sufficiently close by.
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PS: Your comment about coho feeding on the loose eggs is an interesting one. Do salmon in rivers actively feed? Thought they took mainly out of aggression when things pass sufficiently close by.
As far as I know, salmon stop feeding as soon as they hit freshwater. Their stomachs shrink and make space from their eggs and milt sacs.
They will however take eggs out of instinct. I believe it has something to do with increasing the chances of survival for their offspring. Eliminating the competition.
As for lures, blades, etc....i think they strike those out of agression.
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As far as I know, salmon stop feeding as soon as they hit freshwater. Their stomachs shrink and make space from their eggs and milt sacs.
They will however take eggs out of instinct. I believe it has something to do with increasing the chances of survival for their offspring. Eliminating the competition.
As for lures, blades, etc....i think they strike those out of agression.
Salmon do bite in freshwater, I have caught many migrating salmon on Dew worms and deli shrimps. I find a small percentage of the run are active feeders hence we have bait bans. ;)
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Unfortunately I am a 'low tolerance' fisherman and I will snap back the rod almost on reflex if I see the float go under for any reason. This could be one reason my wife sometimes out fishes me with this technique
If you are indeed short floating up off the bottom, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. The key is to get your setup dialed in for the water water you are fishing such that you can be certain that any time your float does in fact go under it is due to a fish.
This is a great thread. Good on you fishseeker for not giving in and mimicking the fisherman beside you. The sad fact is that the vast majority of fishermen on the Vedder River fish in an incorrect manner.
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short probably means 3 feet in Vedder.
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If you are indeed short floating up off the bottom, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. The key is to get your setup dialed in for the water water you are fishing such that you can be certain that any time your float does in fact go under it is due to a fish.
This is a great thread. Good on you fishseeker for not giving in and mimicking the fisherman beside you. The sad fact is that the vast majority of fishermen on the Vedder River fish in an incorrect manner.
Yes I am quite surprised by the interest this has generated and it's been very informative. I just think there is a very good reason to avoid snagging - I lose expensive gear when it happens [..and I don't like injuring fish more than I have to]. It just makes sense.
With luck I am going to be heading out again this Friday to see how I can do with this. I think I am going to apply some of the techniques described here to make sure I do get a good handle on the depth before I start casting.
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short probably means 3 feet in Vedder.
I haven't used over 2ft on the Vedder in years. Most of the time it is closer to 18 inches.
fishseeker, I should be out on the river on friday. If you shoot me an email we could meet up and I could point you in the right direction.
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I haven't used over 2ft on the Vedder in years. Most of the time it is closer to 18 inches.
fishseeker, I should be out on the river on friday. If you shoot me an email we could meet up and I could point you in the right direction.
Done. With luck it should possible to meet up depending on timing.
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ill be trying to catch my first ever coho on the fly in the canal tomorrow, if that doesn't work i will bring the pin out and do some short floating myself. see you guys on the flow and good luck!!
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i use a baitcaster to short float, but my dad doesn't like those kind of reels cause of tangles...I want to take him on the vedder and someone told me that a spinning reel isnt really the best reel to drift or float fish with is there another reel you can fish with. I was just thinking a fly fishing reel with normal line on it and just pull the line out when it goes down the river could you do that or not?
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You could attempt something along those lines, but I would just let him stick with his spin cast rod or at least bring it as a backup. Although they definitely aren't ideal for drifting, I have caught every species of salmon with a spincast rod on the vedder, so it is not impossible by any means. Has he ever tried a centerpin setup before? They are ideal for drifting and are far different from baitcasters.
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It is hard to dead drift with a spinning reel. When the float dips the bail is always open! I tried last week rather than use a level wind for pinks. We switched to roe after we saw a few spring and the spinning reel made a good drift difficult.
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Some baitcasters are easier for beginners than others. To lessen the amount of tangles, try and get a baitcaster that has the release the runs horizontally across the barrel. This allows the user to release and apply thumb pressure to the line at the same time...some other baitcasters that have the release elsewhere could be troublesome for the novice...
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You can drift fish with a spinning reel by keeping one finger near the bail to flip it over the second you get a bite. If too much line is out on a cast and the rest of the line is sticking to the spool use the water to pull the line out by lifting the rod tip. Then go get a level wind when everyone bugs you about being a dork trying to drift fish with a spinning reel. I still use a small spinning outfit to drift smaller streams as it will get lightweight set-ups out there without too much hassle.
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It is hard to dead drift with a spinning reel. When the float dips the bail is always open! I tried last week rather than use a level wind for pinks. We switched to roe after we saw a few spring and the spinning reel made a good drift difficult.
When I was float fishing with a spinning reel I found It better to turn off the anti-reverse and reel backwards.This maintains direct contact to the terminal end.Once a fish is hooked the anti-reverse can be swithed back on.This is easier with a flip type switch(just takes a touch of a pinky) at the rear end as opposed to a slider.I will agree it's not ideal, but with practice it it works quite well. You have to be carefull to not backreel too fast in the slower runs.In a fast seam its amazing how fast you have to do it to keep up with the current.With practice it it works quite well.It works best to float roe in froggy water/slow seams.In faster water a colarado works well as a bit of tension and a less than perfect dead drift does not hinder results,but likely improves them.Keep your rod high(use a 9'-10' rod min.)and use shorter drifts and move more to cover water.
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i use a baitcaster to short float, but my dad doesn't like those kind of reels cause of tangles...I want to take him on the vedder and someone told me that a spinning reel isnt really the best reel to drift or float fish with is there another reel you can fish with. I was just thinking a fly fishing reel with normal line on it and just pull the line out when it goes down the river could you do that or not?
Spinning reels with the baitfeeder function such as the Okuma Epixor EB series pay out line similar to a baitcaster without the issue of birdsnests. There is some drag to the drift though but the option makes them more versatile. Shimano makes one too but I am not familiar with it.
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Not wishing to bring up an old topic, this is just to say thanks for all of the advice.
I was out on the Vedder yesterday and applied all of the ideas you gave me. Unfortunately I could not get there at first light and the conditions were tough - nothing biting but plenty of pinks getting foul hooked mostly accidentally and sometimes deliberately (I am not even going to go into some of the appalling behaviour I witnessed). In spite of my best efforts I could not avoid foul hooking a few myself sometimes.
Fished with wool, roe and spinners (using Mr Hooks suggestion - holding back on the float to get some spin), anything to try and entice them. In the end I managed to find a small hole everybody seemed to be neglecting. Figured out the depth using the techniques describe here, set the weight about 2 feet up from bottom, threw out some roe and whammo - I got what looked like a nice little Jack spring but I was not 100% sure so I released him. Maybe somebody can confirm this one way or another. This is a not so good photo because the fish was thrashing about quite a bit and I was trying to keep it calm with one hand while attempting a photo with the other.
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/member/gallery/fishseeker/Vedder_something (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/member/gallery/fishseeker/Vedder_something)
Later on I moved up to another hole and hooked into another two like this with roe but they both got off :(.
Next thing is for me to figure out how to use roe properly :)
(Note: Normally this would have gone to the fishing reports but I just wanted to let you all know that I am listening and doing my best to apply whats said here).
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yes that is definately a spring jack.
Spring = black tongue/black gums
Coho = black tongue/white gums
Chum = purple/green ish bars running down sides. never actually looked in ones mouth cause they are so filled with huge teeth :o
Pink = well to be honest they are all partly rotting now LOL
this is what you will encounter now in the majority of our LML streams in the fall.
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Thanks Hook, now I know for sure. I am very familiar with chums and pinks (..caught many of those). This is the first time I got something other than a Chum or a pink and I just wanted to be sure I made the right guess as to what it was. [To me, the jacks look a lot like pinks only a lot more spots and obviously a lot fresher than the half dead pinks right now].
Also, thanks for your comments on this thread. I am hoping to do better with blades and spin n glows using the techniques you and some others described.
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thanks for the kind words Seeker ;D
when you fish roe you want to hold back on it slightly much like a blade when drifting it however dont hold back quite as much, you want to slow it down just enough that it leads the way down the river (roe then lead then float). If your drifting in faster or heavier water you can do this or you can actually just dead drift it so it stays in the strike zone properly.
If you enjoy fishing wool due to its cleanliness you should grab some jigs (bent rods jigs) and try dead drifting these because they can be deadly, try tipping it with a prawn also (frozen ones from store thawed out work good)
when you mention spin n glows so you bar fishing or using the tiny ones for steelies ?? because those are completely different usages.
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Aha..more things to try. I actually had my wife dead drifting pink bent rod jigs both in the Vedder and at Campbell and they were great for the pinks. The thing I liked about them is they seemed to snag fish less with the hook pointed up -just made sure the jig was above them. Someone else mentioned using prawns with these for Steelhead once so its just something I have to try next - I find Roe very expensive so I would like to try alternatives (..also heard dew worms can be good too)
I used spin and glows very effectively on pinks - just put a weight 12 inches above them and retrieve them slowly the same way as a spoon. Got the idea from my wife because she found one discarded in the rocks and suggested I try it - turned out to be one of the more effective ways to get them in the Fraser. Since it worked so well for pinks that way I can't see why it wouldn't work well for other Salmon species fished below a float the same way as a spoon would be. After all...it spins and vibrates like one and the small sized ones could really entice them.
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So has any body tries a pink worm for coho ???
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coho like SMALL presentations so i doubt a pink worm would work. I mean they rather take small hunks of roe over giant ones. one large thing they will strike though are blades or spinners. I like using a size 5 colorado blade for them and they agree ;D
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I've read that they like dew worms so...
Really small pink worm, maybe cut in half. :-\
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not sure if dew worms will work in the Vedder but they tend to work quite well in waters where there is lots of over hanging grass and stuff. ;) Dew worms will work for steelies thats a given, they will work for Coho as well just not everywhere. Im not sure if they will work or any other species though :-\ perhaps you could test it out for us while i keep catching lots on roe ;D LOL
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i use a baitcaster to short float, but my dad doesn't like those kind of reels cause of tangles...I want to take him on the vedder and someone told me that a spinning reel isnt really the best reel to drift or float fish with is there another reel you can fish with. I was just thinking a fly fishing reel with normal line on it and just pull the line out when it goes down the river could you do that or not?
No, the fly reel is definitely the wrong tool here as it doesn't free spool. Baitcasting reels tangle once in a blue moon once you've spent a couple hours with them. Set the spool tension so that the weight you're casting will slowly drop to the ground without any backlash. When casting, just drag your thumb on the spool enough so that you don't overrun. You dont have to remove your thumb from the spool entirely ever during the cast.
The baitcasting reel is the most versatile reel there is. Learn to use it properly and its a very useful tool. They can't be that tough as some of the people using them on "local rivers" struggle with the concept of adding (4 pinks + 4 coho = 4 salmon... right?).