Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: gcal on November 17, 2009, 11:32:35 AM
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First off let me say that I'm a Canadian-born Chinese. Born and raised here.
I had an altercation this morning at Lake Lafarge, of all places. I fish there for the stocked trout. The lake was recently stocked so catching them is easy. Everyone can catch them. Nobody needs to be selfish or greedy.
A group of Chinese arrived and one of them dramatically crossed my line. I mentioned how he should maintain line casting discipline. He talked to me in Chinese. Unfortunately, I don't speak Mandarin but I gestured and spoke to him in such a way that an idoit should know what I'm talking about. I then lost a fish when our lines tangled. I casted out. He then cast again... dramatically crossed my line once again! I then had VERY harsh words for him. Everyone knows English cuss words.
I recognized this fisherman from earlier this summer. He was catching numerous carps (>10) of sizes as small as 3 inches! Also, I once saw him fish with 2 rods. I mentioned to him that he was breaking regulations and then he stopped (smiling that he didn't understand me). What a disgrace!
I told him that he was an embarrasment to the Chinese community, and that he was giving us a "bad name". He had a bunch of friends with him that remained silent throughout. I think they were all taken aback that someone (especially of Asian descent) would complain about this guy's antics and selfishness.
Anyways, after the verbal argument, I left. I felt good that I spoke up. If I left without saying anything, then it just perpetuates the "bad name" that some bad Asian fisherman deserve.
I am calling on all "banana's" (Canadian-born Chinese) to speak out against these people. As mentioned in another thread, Steal_mo_Head had problems, being Asian and we all want to help dispel the prejudice.
So banana's, and others, please speak out! It will make you feel better and it's the right thing to do.
Thanks for letting me vet!
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Next time some one crosses your line just do the same to them. Over and over and over. ;D
Some people have to be "shown" the way. ;)
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Yeah, crossing his line, over and over. :)
No Kidding, he cast about 45 degrees to my line (no accident). Twice! Just to get to his supposed "sweet spot". C'mon, trout is everywhere at Lake Larfage right now.
I told him that if he wanted to cast to that spot, then he should move over to that side, but he said in broken English "Yesterday 4 of us was here and we were casting that way". I called B.S. Nobody fishes that rudely and poorly (except this guy).
If he wanted my spot, then he should have gotten there earlier than me. I told him that once I catch my limit, (I had 3 already) then I'll leave. I told him to be patient. Common courtesy, man.
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If they break the law, such as fishing two rods or keeping more than the limits, just report him. If we confront the individual, be careful there. There is always the chance of violence. This has happened at Lafarge a few years back. Crossing line resulted in a shouting match, which then became pushing and punching. Eventually one of the guys fell back and hit the concrete walkway with his head and he died later. What a tragedy.
Violaters or line crossers can be any one. He could be Chinese, Koreans, Singaporeans, Japanese, Vietnamese, Europeans or local whites etc. I have lived in Poco & fished Lafarge for 22 years. I have seen bad examples from all groups. Sometines line crossers have a bad casting skill. Sometimes, it is not intentional. They just can't control the cast as well as others. I have known people who just have trouble casting even after fishing a few years with me. It seems to relate to the motor skill of a person. I usually tell these folks to stay away from the crowded section. Obviously his other Chinese friends don't have this problem. I can understand your frustration because this guy's line crossing is not unintentional. Perhaps we don't even have to mention the nationality or ethnic background in a public forum, because this itself can cause stereotype about a particular nationality or ethnic group even we don't intend to (as you obviously try not to, by declaring your own ethnic background the same as this guy).
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I know I should not get into a verbal spar with people. But he was casting that way intentionally. He acknowledged doing so... he just didn't care. And as I said, I witnessed his other past poor behavior. I had to say something.
Calling the report line is not very immediate or effective. There are many times that I see illegal chumming at Lafarge. Called it in. Nothing happens. Those guys/gals are likely not interested in supervising stocked lakes.
It's like you guys fishing the Vedder, and seeing all that s**t. Very frustrating to see this coming to family-oriented stocked lakes.
I mentioned my race because I hate seeing my race being "targeted". It's unfortunate. I just want to do my part for my heritage and community.
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Why do you use the term banana?? I know what it means but why use that word to describe Chinese Canadians??? To me this just promotes separation between races. Who cares what color you are.
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Race is irrelevant. I've seen all types and sizes of people doing exactly what you described.
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I am with you Gcal. But I personally will choose to leave for a another quiet spot. I don't let these people to ruin my joyful day of fishing. Besides, he had 4 men.
"Banana" means yellow skin white heart.
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"Banana" is a term that I heard and used growing up. I never saw it as being derogatory - only a description, but if anyone is offended, then I apologize for using the term.
As I said, among me and my CC friends, we have never viewed it as derogatory.
My point is, that as part of the Asian community, we all have to do our part to remove stereotypes. It's naive to assume that being "colour blind" is a reality or even a possibility.
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I kind of agree with nothat.
Had what your talking about happen at Green Timbers one time while with my 8yr old daughter...can't remember what race they were...anyway we moved 50ft away from them after they crossed our lines a few times and continued our day without the hassel.
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Hey nothat, can you describe what you mean by "white heart"? Not trying to troll here but just curious what that phrase means to you?
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How about "yellow on the outside, white on the inside".
I have heard Chinese people describe themselves this way (banana) - more in tune with western ways than with Chinese.
I would have grabbed his line and cut it when he cast over your line.
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I FlyFish, so........
If that were to happen to me (Many of you know me) I would bring my line in, Put on a nice big weighted fly and star casting side arm, guarantee the first time the fly nails him in the head, he would move!!!! Even if it did not hit him, hearing a fly whip by your head would make anyone think about moving!!
This (Unfortunately) happens EVERYWHERE, and by every race. it seems people were not taught ethics when they were growing up. I don't only mean on the water either, this kind of crap happens at the lake, Park, supermarket, and at work. I feel this is only going to get worse as well, with all the absentee parents that are too busy trying to make money that they think they don't have time to teach their kids respect and ethics!!!!!
Rick
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"dramatically crossed my line"
now thats funny.
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First off let me say that I'm a Canadian-born Chinese. Born and raised here.
I had an altercation this morning at Lake Lafarge, of all places. I fish there for the stocked trout. The lake was recently stocked so catching them is easy. Everyone can catch them. Nobody needs to be selfish or greedy.
A group of Chinese arrived and one of them dramatically crossed my line. I mentioned how he should maintain line casting discipline. He talked to me in Chinese. Unfortunately, I don't speak Mandarin but I gestured and spoke to him in such a way that an idoit should know what I'm talking about. I then lost a fish when our lines tangled. I casted out. He then cast again... dramatically crossed my line once again! I then had VERY harsh words for him. Everyone knows English cuss words.
I recognized this fisherman from earlier this summer. He was catching numerous carps (>10) of sizes as small as 3 inches! Also, I once saw him fish with 2 rods. I mentioned to him that he was breaking regulations and then he stopped (smiling that he didn't understand me). What a disgrace!
I told him that he was an embarrasment to the Chinese community, and that he was giving us a "bad name". He had a bunch of friends with him that remained silent throughout. I think they were all taken aback that someone (especially of Asian descent) would complain about this guy's antics and selfishness.
Anyways, after the verbal argument, I left. I felt good that I spoke up. If I left without saying anything, then it just perpetuates the "bad name" that some bad Asian fisherman deserve.
I am calling on all "banana's" (Canadian-born Chinese) to speak out against these people. As mentioned in another thread, Steal_mo_Head had problems, being Asian and we all want to help dispel the prejudice.
So banana's, and others, please speak out! It will make you feel better and it's the right thing to do.
Thanks for letting me vet!
Tell me about it!!! I've decided that i'm ust going to go the dfo's on ppl now. But i'll tell them first ;)... Don't need to waste my breath anymore.
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Mattyo, Easywater explained it better than me. You will usually hear it from the first generation Canadian Chinese to mock their children that do not understand Chinese culture. It is not too much an insualting term.
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I have crossed others` line or been crossed by others several times when fishing. Just say sorry and smile as it is difficult to say who is wrong or right. The fact is when the line is under the water, others will not be able to know where they are, especially for newbies.
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I have crossed others` line or been crossed by others several times when fishing. Just say sorry and smile as it is difficult to say who is wrong or right. The fact is when the line is under the water, others will not be able to know where they are, especially for newbies.
Its quite easy to know who is wrong or right. If your line is straight infront of you and a guy casts a line over yours its his fault. What so hard about that? If a new fisherman comes and casts over your line and its an accident he would immediately apologize. Blatant casts over your line is different as this poster has mentioned. I would have cut his line. I have done it before. No words used just grabbed the line cut it and continued to fish.
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i was fishing the vedder once when this guy came on the far bank and started casting right to the side i was on he had a barbed treble hook that got me right in the arm
i wouldve called the cops cause he assualted me and the dfo but i dont have a phone
instead i pulled his line in till i got to his snaggers weight and then ran from the river as fast as i could when that line tightened up his rod came straight out of his hands
i only dragged it through the sand and gravel for 30 feet or so then i told him he could go swimming if he wanted it back ( the water was only 3 feet deep there)
he got his rod back and proceded to throw rocks at me i threw bigger ones back and he left soon after
i hope that learned him
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i was fishing the vedder once when this guy came on the far bank and started casting right to the side i was on he had a barbed treble hook that got me right in the arm
i wouldve called the cops cause he assualted me and the dfo but i dont have a phone
instead i pulled his line in till i got to his snaggers weight and then ran from the river as fast as i could when that line tightened up his rod came straight out of his hands
i only dragged it through the sand and gravel for 30 feet or so then i told him he could go swimming if he wanted it back ( the water was only 3 feet deep there)
he got his rod back and proceded to throw rocks at me i threw bigger ones back and he left soon after
i hope that learned him
that is something else but I wish I had seen that happen
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Corss others ` line with intention is not good >:(did not see this happen before). I just mean someone across the rive and we both cast to the middle of the rive. Or we stand should by shoulder and both casting forward...
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i was fishing the vedder once when this guy came on the far bank and started casting right to the side i was on he had a barbed treble hook that got me right in the arm
i wouldve called the cops cause he assualted me and the dfo but i dont have a phone
instead i pulled his line in till i got to his snaggers weight and then ran from the river as fast as i could when that line tightened up his rod came straight out of his hands
i only dragged it through the sand and gravel for 30 feet or so then i told him he could go swimming if he wanted it back ( the water was only 3 feet deep there)
he got his rod back and proceded to throw rocks at me i threw bigger ones back and he left soon after
i hope that learned him
lol thats hilarious!
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Corss others ` line with intention is not good >:(did not see this happen before). I just mean someone across the rive and we both cast to the middle of the rive. Or we stand should by shoulder and both casting forward...
I dont fish places where its shoulder to shoulder so thats not a problem for me. I avoid those places like the plague....
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Are they a group of elderly people? I was there today too from 2pm to 3:30pm, fishing at the southeast side.
If so, i think it's not worth getting upset at that, just let them know they are wrong, and if shiets persist, just call in. Don't worry about whether the DFO or CO etc would show up or not, just do our part and call them in.
Sometimes it's hard to change some people's values and behaviours, especially for the people that grew in a different society(regardless of the race). I speak both mandarin and cantonese, and i have approached some of the violators that speak the languages quite a few times. All I can say is that, if you talk to these people in a friendlier tone, MOST of them would usually change the way they are fishing, and some of them are even very willing to learn more because there is no language barrier. As well i think pointing out the race would not help diminishing stereotypes....
So, take it easy, dude. The next time you see this, just call in and walk away, don't let them ruin your day.
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Racial stereotyping does not help the situation at all. Bannana, manyana, whatever we are all fishermen. However, if some people are going to be rude and ignorant all you can do is to try and make your point. If that does not work, I would just leave and go find another spot to fish.
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those guys are at the south end of the lake almost every day it is their personal buffet and they think they own that spot I came up on them once just walked away in disgust.
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Racial stereotyping does not help the situation at all. Bannana, manyana, whatever we are all fishermen. However, if some people are going to be rude and ignorant all you can do is to try and make your point. If that does not work, I would just leave and go find another spot to fish.
I agree that Racial Stereotyping does not help, but to leave a fishing spot that you got to at 6am because someone is being a jerk is wrong as well. Why should the fisherman in the right have to leave or find a new spot, let the Jerk move on, after all, it's his issue, not yours.
I am sick and tired of ethical fishermen (Like most of us) having to bow down to the few jerks out there. I wish there was some sort of way we could self regulate or something, the DFO is HUGELY understaffed and we can't blame them, but there needs to be a way that we as fishermen can help them out, calling the DFO is NOT WORKING!!!!!! I just read another post on a different forum where there was a guy that had a WILD Coho, nothing on his hook, and NO LICENSE, what did he get a $115 fine!!!
There needs to be a MUCH HARSHER fine, that might deter the jerks as well, maybe they will stay at home!!
Rick
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I agree harsher penalties for people who poach should be levied by DFO officers and COs. Steps in the right direction would be larger fines, and confiscation of not only the fish but all fishing equipment such as rods and fishing tackle, etc. .
However, that is where the officals have to get get their act together and follow through on cracking down on fisherman breaking the law.
Not much you can do when a guy is going to throw over your line aside from warning him not to do it, and if he keeps it up to cut his line. However, you have to be careful about that because it can soon escalate to more than that. After all look what happened a few years ago in Southern Ontario, where Asian fishermen were subjected to violence by either being thrown into lakes or rivers, or being beaten up, just for fishing. The reason given is that Asian fishermen were stereotyped into being poachers by certain groups of fishermen who decided to take the law into their own hands. And unfortunately during that time period if they saw an Asian angler, it was a case of judge, jury and punishment being inflicted on any Asian fishermen who ran into this group of vigilantes.
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Racial stereotyping does not help the situation at all. Bannana, manyana, whatever we are all fishermen. However, if some people are going to be rude and ignorant all you can do is to try and make your point. If that does not work, I would just leave and go find another spot to fish.
I think its more of an identity than a stereotype. Part of my identity is that I am Caucasian. The OP is merely saying he identifies with being Asian but accustomed to North American cultured. Nothing wrong with that. A few of my Asian friends refer to themselves as Bananas, there's no attached derogatory meaning to the term.
All he's saying is that he thinks these Chinese fishermen may listen to him a bit better than they'll listen to, say, me, as he has race in common. That may be the case, i don't think there is any need to completely dismiss the notion of race every time the topic comes up. Racism is different than race. Racial groups do have something in common- obviously. Why else would there be a Persian community, a Greek community, a Chinatown? Differences don't need to preclude respect or ability to get along between the two groups, but often common ground is useful in resolving issues. In this case, the common ground is merely race. Fine, nothing wrong with that.
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I think its more of an identity than a stereotype. Part of my identity is that I am Caucasian. The OP is merely saying he identifies with being Asian but accustomed to North American cultured. Nothing wrong with that. A few of my Asian friends refer to themselves as Bananas, there's no attached derogatory meaning to the term.
All he's saying is that he thinks these Chinese fishermen may listen to him a bit better than they'll listen to, say, me, as he has race in common. That may be the case, i don't think there is any need to completely dismiss the notion of race every time the topic comes up. Racism is different than race. Racial groups do have something in common- obviously. Why else would there be a Persian community, a Greek community, a Chinatown? Differences don't need to preclude respect or ability to get along between the two groups, but often common ground is useful in resolving issues. In this case, the common ground is merely race. Fine, nothing wrong with that.
Thanks Matt. This is exactly what I'm saying. You're very astute for a young guy. :) Non-asian even! (just kidding everyone!)
And yes, it is the crowded South - Southeast side. Fishing dock. Many times if the dock is occupied, I move on. But yesterday, it was empty, until they arrived. Time was 9:30-10:30 am. The other "fisherman" wanted to cast into the south-east pocket from the dock, rather than moving to the surrounding bank (which had open spaces - just not as comfortable as fishing from the dock).
I'm still going to be fishing there. As someone earlier mentioned, I got there first, and it's not right that it's ME, that has to move out of the spot. Fishing at Lake Lafarge (bottom fishing) is not like river fishing. There is a lot more sitting around and waiting, similar to bar fishing.
This is my first year fishing (except for when I was a boy growing up in Victoria). I started when I attended the Father's Day fishing event at Lake Lafarge. Then I got "hooked" and started fishing there, and then onto the Pinks, which was a lot of fun, catching 18 this year. I visited the Vedder and Stave to check things out, but I didn't fish. I'll do that next year when I get more experienced.
But even for a relatively new guy, I know what should be obviously right and wrong and what should be normal common courtesy.
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Thanks Matt. This is exactly what I'm saying. You're very astute for a young guy. :) Non-asian even! (just kidding everyone!)
And yes, it is the crowded South - Southeast side. Fishing dock. Many times if the dock is occupied, I move on. But yesterday, it was empty, until they arrived. Time was 9:30-10:30 am. The other "fisherman" wanted to cast into the south-east pocket from the dock, rather than moving to the surrounding bank (which had open spaces - just not as comfortable as fishing from the dock).
I'm still going to be fishing there. As someone earlier mentioned, I got there first, and it's not right that it's ME, that has to move out of the spot. Fishing at Lake Lafarge (bottom fishing) is not like river fishing. There is a lot more sitting around and waiting, similar to bar fishing.
This is my first year fishing (except for when I was a boy growing up in Victoria). I started when I attended the Father's Day fishing event at Lake Lafarge. Then I got "hooked" and started fishing there, and then onto the Pinks, which was a lot of fun, catching 18 this year. I visited the Vedder and Stave to check things out, but I didn't fish. I'll do that next year when I get more experienced.
But even for a relatively new guy, I know what should be obviously right and wrong and what should be normal common courtesy.
Now how about helping me with my calculus homework? ;D
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:) !
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20 years ago I would have cut there line or worse,however I have matured ::) get there plate number and send it to dfo
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Race is irrelevant. I've seen all types and sizes of people doing exactly what you described.
I've never seen a black person do this.
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20 years ago I would have cut there line or worse,however I have matured ::) get there plate number and send it to dfo
Get their plate number and call DFO for crossing over your line? What a waste of a phone call. Cutting the lines is not immature it sends them a message that you wont put up with their crap. If they are blatantly doing it than you have to do something. You have to stick up for yourself. You cant just cower away and let them do something that is wrong.
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i'm not saying i wouldn't feel compelled to cut their line myself, but i think that would merely aggravate the situation.
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Cutting their line is the most direct route from behavior ---> consequence. Stupid people have a wire missing in their brain that connects rational argument to a meaningful resolution so I think you're wasting your time arguing with idiots that will never think about what you are saying. This goes for more than just fishing too :)
It's like rex-kwan-do from napoleon dynamite....... Cut the line, walk away. Cut the line, walk away.
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I usually stare at those kind of people persistently then they get the message and move ;D
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I know I should not get into a verbal spar with people. But he was casting that way intentionally. He acknowledged doing so... he just didn't care. And as I said, I witnessed his other past poor behavior. I had to say something.
Calling the report line is not very immediate or effective. There are many times that I see illegal chumming at Lafarge. Called it in. Nothing happens. Those guys/gals are likely not interested in supervising stocked lakes.
It's like you guys fishing the Vedder, and seeing all that s**t. Very frustrating to see this coming to family-oriented stocked lakes.
I mentioned my race because I hate seeing my race being "targeted". It's unfortunate. I just want to do my part for my heritage and community.
Thanks for doing that gcal, good on you.
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Cossed line by others twice is ok for me. I will react form the third time (to give them time to adjust themself).
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I was there tuesday also, but fishing on the north east side because the dock area looked very crowded. There was a guy fly fishing on a personal raft if I'm not mistaken? I feel embarassed when other asian people lack etiquette but as mentioned by previous posters, there are sh!tty fisherman of all races (as far as rules and courtesay). Anyways, I don't usually mind rain but that day was especially unforgiving so I left after a few hours.
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Edit^^ nevermind, it was actually monday
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You think Asians are a problem? :o
Wait till you run into Slavic guys...heathens they are, heathens! :D
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I love that, Milo. :D Just so funny.
So when you cut the line of an Asian, he bows and says 'Sorry San, sorry, sorry'. And when you cut Milo's friend's line, you will become hamburger meat... ;D or what is left of a roe sack after being stepped on. ;D
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You guys should see what happens on the feather river in cali when lines get crossed people get stabbed ect. then again at least in america we have a rep as californians of not taking anybodys crap.not saying i indulge myself in that ignorance but i personally refuse to get made a fool of for a lack of better words by anybody black,white,purple,orange or blue.Im always genuinely respectful to everybody until i dont get it back...then...Birdies chirp LOL ;D
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Personally I am just out for a good time and I can't help thinking there is very little good that can come out of altercations - it would just ruin my day and probably do nothing to change the habits of the offender.
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Personally I am just out for a good time and I can't help thinking there is very little good that can come out of altercations - it would just ruin my day and probably do nothing to change the habits of the offender.
Yeah, never have been much of a person for altercations. Plus, I also believe that a fight does little to change the offender's behaviour. Somehow, the idea of fights don't really fit in with my idea of fishing.
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Cossed line by others twice is ok for me. I will react form the third time (to give them time to adjust themself).
What if they dress in a bear or coyote costum? ;)
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::)Send out your hound (if you are a bear hunter?)
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I am continually suprised that many on this site dont seem to know the difference between a Fishery Officer and Conservation Office. Call DFO for an ethics problem in a pond stocked with trout???? Come on now-- learn the difference between them.
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We prefer the correct term Caucasian, not whites.
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As in, referring to skin colour? ???
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that's why i proposed to raise the penalty 10 times more so the DFO won't be understaffed, and things would be a lot smoother i guess.
Aa a multi-lingual person(Taiwanese, Mandarin, English, Cantonese), i did speak to "those" whatever you wanna call them, yes, you can break the language barrier, but the perceptions, background, as well as values and ethic are in different dimension. I don't even think language is an issue since i see Chinese elders and Eastern European Elders seem to be hanging out really well with occasion high fives after they caught fish. Some are from very poor and un-nurished background and they would like to have it back in the present, to get as much as they could. We see examples in rappers who collect tons of sneakers cuz they couldn't have those when they were kids. Others think they can afford the risks and the fine, cuz they have the old age security from Canadian Government, they are just paying a bit back for taking the fish. Besides, what else can you really do when you are old and you just can't wake up at 4, driving to vedder and hike then fish those big salmons? I am not trying to say they are right in anyway, but think from their perspectives, and i figured a lot of them cannot adapt to change all those they have been carry on all the way till today. Chumming the water, using livewell, snagging fish(my chinese fishing budy told me there are ppl specialized in snagging fish with18+ hooks in lines, known as scorpion fishing technique) are all parts of fishing in Asia, Eastern Europe, or where ever they are from, but hey....what if things all changed when you got that old?
Seriously??
This may sound a bit ignorant but it's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. This isn't Asia or Eastern Europe, it's Canada. Our rules are in place to be followed, no excuses. I wouldn't be excused from not paying to fish on a pay only lake in the UK by saying "Think from my perspective officer, I'm from Canada" You want to fish in this country? Read the rules and respect them.
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Get their plate number and call DFO for crossing over your line? What a waste of a phone call. Cutting the lines is not immature it sends them a message that you wont put up with their crap. If they are blatantly doing it than you have to do something. You have to stick up for yourself. You cant just cower away and let them do something that is wrong.
I agree with this. Why should some jerk get away with showing up after you did and then bully or push his way into your place.Too much of this goes on because they get away with it.
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It really doesn't matter what ethnic background you are from. How you fish and value public resource is of personal preference. Take a broader example. Some people visit their family doctor whenever there is slight cough, sneeze and some realize if you exploit the health system it's going to be costly for everyone. These public shared benefits (fishing included) are all a learning curve for everyone. Some learns faster some slower.
Takes the natives at Capilano. They still fish with 1 oz wt on their treble hooks. So is it illegal to snag fish? Yah only when you are the general public. But can't say Canadian doesn't do it.
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Well, fishing used to be...oh great he caught a fish! (no matter what method). Now it's more like, "oh, he caught fish, let's observe how he did it to ensure he's following rules. If he isn't, he shouldn't be here, etc. etc."
Jeez people, if you don't like it, walk away! Or confront them verbally in a friendly manner like i do. I haven't had any "boiling-over" issues yet, but chances are, they will be nice about it and stop whatever it is they were doing to you that caused you to confront them.
Don't try to "police" people, you are there to fish and enjoy a day off work or school, not to police or stress.
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Now it's more like hey how come his catching fish and I'm not. He must be doing something illegal.