Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: joska on February 24, 2011, 10:25:45 PM
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quick question for the steelheading superstars i got a few questions regarding the different strains of steelhead we have here in BC. i am aware that the thompson strain is a bigger strain and stocks are depleting? that is the reason why they closed the thompson river this year? the major questions that i have is, are the island fish bigger than the wild vedder fish? and how do the hatchery fish compare in size to the wild stocks? thanks in advance tight lines to all...
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I dont know if you can say that Island fish are bigger or smaller than chwk/vedder fish I know of big fish coming from both, when I have fished the stamp generally a big fish for me was around 12lbs. I know that there have been lots of big steelhead taken off the island and there have been plenty of big steelhead taken from the chwk/vedder system. Ok this one is very simple wild steelhead and hatchery steelhead have the exact same genenitics. The hatchery takes wild does and wild bucks every year and creates the next cycle of hatchery fish out of them. You can catch both big wild and hatchery bucks. However for me at least it seems that when I do catch a big fish it just happens to be wild most of the time. Hope that helps
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I dont know if you can say that Island fish are bigger or smaller than chwk/vedder fish I know of big fish coming from both, when I have fished the stamp generally a big fish for me was around 12lbs. I know that there have been lots of big steelhead taken off the island and there have been plenty of big steelhead taken from the chwk/vedder system. Ok this one is very simple wild steelhead and hatchery steelhead have the exact same genenitics. The hatchery takes wild does and wild bucks every year and creates the next cycle of hatchery fish out of them. You can catch both big wild and hatchery bucks. However for me at least it seems that when I do catch a big fish it just happens to be wild most of the time. Hope that helps
thanks alot. shortfloat... being a rookie i cant stop asking what if. everyone on the river will hear the excitement when i hook into my first steelhead on the vedder.
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from my experience with the island rivers, the average vedder fish is much larger than most of the rivers there...there are a few that I wont name that have some very big fish in them though
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from my experience with the island rivers, the average vedder fish is much larger than most of the rivers there...there are a few that I wont name that have some very big fish in them though
thanks kingpin, no need for names.. i plan on heading over to the island and finding them one day. until then i will wear out many pairs of felts exploring the vedder. thanks again guys.
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I think we assume they are different strains when infact they just seem that way because of the conditions and/or distances they must travel to their natal streams. The Vedder fish dont have to run heavy rapids or long distances like the Thompson fish do, same goes for the Skeena tributaries fish for the distance they travel and rapids in some of the tribs as well. I think this is what makes these fish fight harder and possibly have a larger fish size as well. This is just speculation of course but who really cares as long as these great fish stick around
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I think we assume they are different strains when infact they just seem that way because of the conditions and/or distances they must travel to their natal streams. The Vedder fish dont have to run heavy rapids or long distances like the Thompson fish do, same goes for the Skeena tributaries fish for the distance they travel and rapids in some of the tribs as well. I think this is what makes these fish fight harder and possibly have a larger fish size as well. This is just speculation of course but who really cares as long as these great fish stick around
intresting point hook... i second the fact that these fish are incredible and need to stick around.
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From 1968 to 1980 we fished the Indian river at the end of Indian Arm or the Upper Pitt river most weekends during Steelhead season. The Indian river had about a third to half the flow that the Pitt did. But the Indian fish were the biggest fish. My biggest was 19 lb. My dad caught and released one over 20lb. most averaged over 10 lb. The biggest fish out of the Upper Pitt for us was 11lb. most averaged 8lb.
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From 1968 to 1980 we fished the Indian river at the end of Indian Arm or the Upper Pitt river most weekends during Steelhead season. The Indian river had about a third to half the flow that the Pitt did. But the Indian fish were the biggest fish. My biggest was 19 lb. My dad caught and released one over 20lb. most averaged over 10 lb. The biggest fish out of the Upper Pitt for us was 11lb. most averaged 8lb.
great times had by all back in the day eh rob. could it ever be like that again?
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From 1968 to 1980 we fished the Indian river at the end of Indian Arm or the Upper Pitt river most weekends during Steelhead season. The Indian river had about a third to half the flow that the Pitt did. But the Indian fish were the biggest fish. My biggest was 19 lb. My dad caught and released one over 20lb. most averaged over 10 lb. The biggest fish out of the Upper Pitt for us was 11lb. most averaged 8lb.
I just checked the regs and no limit for salmon or steelhead in either river today.
So, I guess fishing is very different today than it was a generation ago. :(
Thompson today, and where next? :(
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I just checked the regs and no limit for salmon or steelhead in either river today.
When specific regulations do not exist for a particular water body, then the regional regulations apply to that water body.
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When specific regulations do not exist for a particular water body, then the regional regulations apply to that water body.
By "no limit", I meant that the "daily retention quota is zero" for those two rivers.
Thanks for your comments Rodney.
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While the strength of a steelhead "strain" may be attributed to the obstacles it must overcome in its journey (like the Thompson steelhead's journey through Hells Gate, or the Dean River's lower canyon), the one obvious factor affecting fish size is the distance the fish travels in the ocean (and the time it spends out there). The fact is that steelhead have the greatest number of variants in life cycle of any andromous species, from time spent in the ocean, distance traveled, time spent in the freshwater pre spawn and post hatch. Thompson fish probably spend 3-4 years in the rich waters off Alaska's Aleutian Islands, and many return for a 2nd or even third season. A particularly hardy BC female was determined, though scale analysis, to have returned for a 6th time, (although the statistical return for a 2nd visit is only about 10%). Smaller strains, on the other hand, likely spend their time closer to their natal streams and may return after only 1-2 years in the ocean (like many California and Oregon steelhead that average 5-10 pounds), and many many not return for a 2nd or third visit. This longer time spent at at sea is why you see 20+ size fish in the Thompson, but the journey through the Hells Gate may be why they fight harder than a 20 pound fish in the Indian River did. The smaller Oregon strains, likewise, may be every bit as strong as a 10 -14 pound Vedder steelhead if they have to negotiate a steep canyon gorge or travel hundreds of kilometers inland like the Thompson fish do. Another factor may be the timing of the run. The Thompson fish is a "Summer run" fish (they enter the Fraser in August) and so they are stronger and more aggressive than true winter run fish like the Vedder steelhead that get more lethargic as the temperatures drop. This is similar to how the Dean steelhead (considered by many to be the strongest "strain" around) fight harder than the Skeena tributary fish in the Bulkley or Morris systems (even though they are both summer runs). The Dean fish are targeted when they enter in the summer, while the Bulkey and Morris fish are targeted , like the Thompson fish, in the fall (even though they entered the Skeena at the same time the Dean fish entered the lower Dean River. Since the water in the fall is cooler, their metabolism is slowed, and the Bulkey and Morris fish have also used up more of their stored energy in their 300km journey up the Skeena. While still summer run "players," these fish are not considered as strong as the Dean fish, which are fresh from the ocean and swimming in warmer summer waters, a recipe for aggressive strong fish. Now imagine if you were to be lucky enough to hook into a 20 pound early Thompson fish in September. That would be a fight to remember. The 12 pound summer run Steelhead I hooked in August in the Seymour estuary while fishing Pinks was the best fight I have ever had, 10 times better than a similar sized fish I caught in the lower Vedder/Sumas on New Years Day.
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thanks for the information sandman. another quick question guys. how does the great lake steelhead compare to the west coast steelhead? i have seen many episodes of east coast steelheading on wfn and have put it on the to do list.
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east coast steelhead are not "technically" steelhead because they do not return to the ocean but only return to a large lake. I think this is part of why they get such large numbered returns as well and the fish are generally smaller than what we get here along the West Coast
They do however get HUGE migratory Brown trout :o some of them make the steelhead look tiny
East Coast - West Coast steelhead has been an ongoing bitch fest whether their fish are "real steelhead" or not for years and years LOL Us here say they arent and they say sure they are ;)
HOOK - needs $6000 to fish the Dean !! ;D
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Great comment Sandman.
I also recall reading that "salt years" of steelhead, ie number of years spent feeding in the rich waters of ocean, primarily determines how big it will get by its first spawning run. For steelhead of same 4 yrs of age, a 1+3 yrs fish will be larger than say a 2+2 yrs fish which in turn will be larger than a 3+1 yr fish. Genes are the key determinates of this natural programming. Of course, as fish survives and becomes repeat spawners, they will grow further to become throphy sized fish we all dream about.
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HOOK - needs $6000 to fish the Dean !! ;D
Does this apply to residents of BC?
I did hear that there is a lottery for fishing the Dean, but it did not apply to residents of Canada.
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not sure about a lottery but its about that for 1 week for a trip there which includes. Airfare, helicopter flight in/out, lodge stay and guided fishing each day ;D and i think thats a per person cost
HOOK - will probably never fish the Dean but will start hitting Skeena and Tribs sooner than later ;D
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not sure about a lottery but its about that for 1 week for a trip there which includes. Airfare, helicopter flight in/out, lodge stay and guided fishing each day ;D and i think thats a per person cost
Wow.... helicopter? That I know, I can't afford for sure.
Didn't know Dean was that remote.
I have never been up to the upper coastal area.
Well, one of these days I will make it up to Skeena River, that is along HWY 16 so I could drive up there. :)
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Im sure you get flown there and also jet boat some of the river as well to the lodges. There may however be upper and lower lodges because there is a large canyon rapid section that seperates it much like we have Hell's Gate area on the Fraser. They have some crazy fish on the Dean though :o
here is a blip from a local guiding outfit for a trip to the Dean river (chinook timing) I cant/wont mention the business because im not affiliated in any way and im not sure if they are a site sponsor. This is just to show that its not super cheap but if your a fishing nutjob that can afford it or save for it then by all means a trip of a lifetime. ;D
Pricing is $4600.00 US+ gst and includes 7 nights and 6 full days of
guided speyfishing on the Dean, fishing and casting instruction, all meals, lodging, flies,
beer, wine and a charter flight from Bella Coola.
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Pricing is $4600.00 US+ gst
I guess the good thing is that the loonie is worth more than the greenback nowadays and the bad news is that the HST has replaced the GST.
This is a bucket list kind of a trip for me. ;D
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If you like big fish, fresh from the ocean, give the Kitimat River a try. These fish are only a couple km to about 30 km out of the ocean and have an impressive average size. Although I have not gotten a 20 pounder here, I have come close in each of my three seasons so far I have fished and lived here. I find that most of the fish are averaging 11-12 pounds and there are numerous fish pushing and breaking the 20 pound mark every year. In the past three years I have only had maybe couple fish go less than 10 pounds. I will be fishing hard in about 3 weeks time.
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Im sure you get flown there and also jet boat some of the river as well to the lodges. There may however be upper and lower lodges because there is a large canyon rapid section that seperates it much like we have Hell's Gate area on the Fraser. They have some crazy fish on the Dean though :o
There are lodges on the upper and lower river. All of which are accessible by road once you've flown out to the airstrip.
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this thread took off... :o a quick question, a bit off topic ::) will the wild fish be more abundant in the vedder as the season goes on?
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If you like big fish, fresh from the ocean, give the Kitimat River a try. These fish are only a couple km to about 30 km out of the ocean and have an impressive average size. Although I have not gotten a 20 pounder here, I have come close in each of my three seasons so far I have fished and lived here. I find that most of the fish are averaging 11-12 pounds and there are numerous fish pushing and breaking the 20 pound mark every year. In the past three years I have only had maybe couple fish go less than 10 pounds. I will be fishing hard in about 3 weeks time.
glx, are the Kitimat River spots you fish close to the town of Kitimat?
If I stay at a motel in Kitimat, can I make day trips to good fishing spots by driving?
Sorry joska for going off thread, but had to ask. :D
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no problem thats a good question bigblue. i plan on fishing the northern parts of this beautiful province one day aswell.
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this thread took off... :o a quick question, a bit off topic ::) will the wild fish be more abundant in the vedder as the season goes on?
yes there will be more wild fish. the hathcerys will start to taper off now or soon or atleast the nice fresh ones
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glx, are the Kitimat River spots you fish close to the town of Kitimat?
If I stay at a motel in Kitimat, can I make day trips to good fishing spots by driving?
Sorry joska for going off thread, but had to ask. :D
There are many outstanding places to fish on the Kitimat river all within a short drive. As a kid we would often walk or ride our bikes to the river.
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Most spots on the Kitimat will be within 20km of town with some right in town. A pontoon boat is handy if you have one. A few spots from Highway 37 as well. April through till mid May or so is best.
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Thanks for the insight glx and sugartooth.
I am trying to combine a business trip to Kitimat & Prince Rupert with some fishing on the side. ;D