Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fly Fishing Cafe => Topic started by: Spawn Sack on June 03, 2013, 09:16:02 PM
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The misses and I are heading up to Roche lake next Tuesday (11th). Neither of us have fished there before. I've seen it fished a lot on TV and after talking with the guys in my local tackle shop yesterday we've decided to check it out!
Now, according to the staff right now it's all about chronomids. I've never fished with them. I bought a decent selection of 15 or so in case I decide to give them a go. However there are two problems: 1- I'm not a great back caster and don't feel that comfortable fly casting with someone else in the boat. 2- The misses can not fly cast at all.
In the past we've had great success trolling flies (mainly leeches, wooly buggers, etc) very slowly in our canoe. We both have a spool with a full sink line on (type 3 i think) and we used that with a 12ish foot leader ending in light flourocarbon tippet. I realize that it is hard to control the depth when not using a strike indicator, but by varying the speed we paddled, amount of line out, etc we normally did alright using this method.
Now, my question is, is it effective to troll a chronomid? I really don't see why not. I've seen Brain Chan fish chronomids "naked" (no indicator) on TV and do very well. Now I think he is counting after his line lands to get a good idea how deep his fly lands (eg. on a type 3 line 40 seconds = about 10 feet deep). If we were trolling obviously we would not have that great of an idea how deep our fly is.
I realize that the most effective way to fish chronomids is to anchor and either cast out and retrieve them "naked" or with a strike indicator. My question is...should we even try to slow troll a chronomid like we would a leech, or is this a complete waste of time?
We will be renting car top boat from the lodge. My plan is to cruize to a selected spot using the outboard, then slow troll using the oars.
If anyone has any other tips on Roche Lake it would be much appreciated :) I bought myself a new toy today, the Hummingbird Fishing Buddy 140C that I cant wait to try out on the lake!
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The short answer is no....but.
Logistically, it will be near impossible to troll slow enough to equal the retrieve speed of fishing naked. Between wind and boredom it just doesn't happen.
With that being said, I can't even count the number of times I've left my rods out behind the boat, up anchored to try another spot or go take a picture only to have the reel start screaming about 10 seconds after I've arrived at my new location. Of course I have also spent significant time attempting to recreate this scenario with zero results to date.
My advice is to go spend an hour out on your front lawn practicing your casting. You don't have to be an artist, you just need to be able to lob it out 20 ft. Even then the wind will naturally carry your lines away from the boat in due time.
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With that being said, I can't even count the number of times I've left my rods out behind the boat, up anchored to try another spot or go take a picture only to have the reel start screaming about 10 seconds after I've arrived at my new location. Of course I have also spent significant time attempting to recreate this scenario with zero results to date.
My advice is to go spend an hour out on your front lawn practicing your casting. You don't have to be an artist, you just need to be able to lob it out 20 ft. Even then the wind will naturally carry your lines away from the boat in due time.
I second this. You don't need to cast far, especially if your fishing deep water. I would also recommend you try some balance leaches.
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A trolled chironomid can be a weak representation of a scud or mayfly nymph so you could catch fish.
If you're going to troll I would go with a micro leech, wooly bugger, or Carey Special.
Some of my best fish on Roche were caught slow trolling flies in May/June.
(http://gallery.flybc.ca/albums/Stillwater/rick_23_5.jpg)
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Thanks guys! A big big help as always :) So let's see here: Sterling C, what you said makes sense about retrive speed, it is unlikely we'd be able to row slow enough to match that of an anchored naked retreive. Also about casting, yeah I might actually go out and practice today. However the GF, although she loves to play fish on her fly rod, does not (yet I hope) know how to cast a fly rod. Also nI don't think oput rental boat has anchors. Anyway, this trip it will be slow trolling.
Joshhowat, I have just ONE balanced leech that I tied at a course a Sea Run a month or so ago. I hope to tie up a few more colors before we go. I'm thinking a balanced leech would fish best under an indicator, but it can't hurt to try a slow troll.
Typhoon, interesting I never though of that! Alright, I will likely keep the chronomids in the box for another time, but if the various leeches, wooly buggers, etc are not working I may try one. And if we're just hammering them on other flies then I may try the chronomids just for interests sake.
I've heard Roche has some masive trout, could be interesting on our 4WT rods! LOL! I have a 6WT I'll bring just in case we're out gunned.
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I have caught trout slow trolling chironomids on both dry and floating lines many times. It is not the ideal approach to fishing chironomids, but you can definitely catch fish. Also wind drifting while dragging chironomids can work for you too. I have a hard time sitting at anchor for very long periods of time and prefer to be on the go.
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4wt is fine for Roche, SS. I hope to get one fish per trip that takes me into my backing on my 5wt and my wife often fishes with a 4wt.
If you're renting a boat you could also bring your own anchors. Improvise if cost is an issue - a 12lb plate weight or dumbell will work.
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If you are uncomfortable making the cast with someone in the boat why not run the motor to let your line out. When you have enough out for a long slow retrieve, shut the motor down and drop anchor.
When I learned to fly cast I was told to wear a hat and sunglasses to help keep from catching myself in the face.
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Wearing a hat and turning your collar up protects against hooking yourself in the back of the head, sunnglasses help protect your identity! ;)
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If you are uncomfortable making the cast with someone in the boat why not run the motor to let your line out. When you have enough out for a long slow retrieve, shut the motor down and drop anchor.
When I learned to fly cast I was told to wear a hat and sunglasses to help keep from catching myself in the face.
--This is the real reason flyfishers use barbless hooks. Also a time when lefty's are welcome... one left and one right less hook ups of your partner... unless you both decide to turn around and fish the other side where you are elbow to elbow.
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Nothing new to add really but I do second the slow trolled Carey (green) which I have had absolutely smashed while trolling VERY slowly along the drop offs at Roche, and do not hesitate to troll Dragon fly nymphs, my largest fish at Roche came trolling those (although I also love casting and retrieving them too). Also, when you are at Roche in the summer, the best action is often 30 feet deep so you do not need to cast at all (near impossible anyway with that long of a leader). It is best if you have a depth sounder as you want to troll over the areas where the bottom is relatively flat and look for the small "holes" where the bottom drops slightly deeper. The fish will sit in these holes as the water is just a degree or two cooler. When you find one, drop anchor near the edge of the hole (try not to drop the anchor right in the middle as you could spook the fish!). After you tie on the fly, clamp on some forceps (or large split shot if you do not have forceps), drop it slowly down until it hits bottom, bring it up a bit and set your indicator (a Thingamybob type is easy to attach at this point) then drop it again (the indicator should sink about a foot below the surface. Bring the fly all the way back up and remove the foreceps or weight and toss the fly out away from the boat. Now just roll cast the indicator away from the boat a few feet. The fly should now be hanging a foot or two off the bottom right over a half dozen or so monster trout. Crack open a drink and wait, but keep your hand close to the rod as I have had a few rods jump almost right out the boat with the strike of a 5-6 pound Roche Lake Rainbow. Do not stick to just Chronies either, halfbacks can be just as deadly, if not more so, especially if mayflies or damsels are hatching. Leaches can also be effective here. Now this is not generally a method a GF will tolerate for long if the fish do not bite immediately, so you may want to try this when you head on on your own just before dark, or while she is doing the dishes (ooops...did I say that out loud?).
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I've done REALLY well some days casting 50-60 feet of line and doing a fairly fast figure 8 retrieve with chironies. Hits were insanely hard and lost a lot of flies actually just because of how hard the hits were. I'd imagine a very slow troll would give a similar action to this.
Another thing you can do with full sink lines is put em right over the side of the boat. I do this a lot at times when I only want to "manage" one rod. Attach a heavy weight to your fly, let it go directly off the side of your boat and wait till it hits bottom, strip in a foot of line and then bring the weight up. Then simply hang the rod right out your boat with all the loose line in the water, it sinks down and it's fishing at that point. Caught some fish up to 5-6 pounds doing this at times, and it's nice cause you don't really need to pay too much attention to it. I normally do this method in around 20 feet of water though.
Good luck!
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No but you can drift loch style if the wind is slow enough.
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Excellent tips guys! Thanks a lot. Before I thought trolling a chronomid would be a waste of time, now I realize it may be worth a shot, and perhaps even effective at times.
Everyday, I also like youe idea of just dropping the line right off the side of the boat once the correct depth is determined.
We're heading to Roche this coming Tuesday. We've never fished there before. Would love to hook into a monster! Normally I fish 4ish LB floro tippet but was highly reccomended to step it up a notch, so I bought some 6LB Seaguar Bluelabel flouro that I'll be testing out. Stoked to try out my new Hummingbird 140C fishing buddy too!
thanks for the tips everyone :)
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Excellent tips guys! Thanks a lot. Before I thought trolling a chronomid would be a waste of time, now I realize it may be worth a shot, and perhaps even effective at times.
Everyday, I also like youe idea of just dropping the line right off the side of the boat once the correct depth is determined.
We're heading to Roche this coming Tuesday. We've never fished there before. Would love to hook into a monster! Normally I fish 4ish LB floro tippet but was highly reccomended to step it up a notch, so I bought some 6LB Seaguar Bluelabel flouro that I'll be testing out. Stoked to try out my new Hummingbird 140C fishing buddy too!
thanks for the tips everyone :)
Good luck, let us know how you made out.
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Overall we had a great time! Rolled into Roche right around 2pm, which is when we could start using our boat. Check in wasn't suppoused to be until 4, but our cabin was ready when we arrived so we unpacked the vehicle and put our food (and beer!) in the fridge first before heading out. We were on the lake by about 3pm.
We talked to a few guys on the dock and they reported that the fishing had been pretty slow the last few days. GREAT! We headed out determined to prove them wrong.
The weather was beautiful and the lake was calm most of the time. Typically we would motor it to a nice looking spot, then row around super slow trolling various flies. We caught about 6 fish each over 2 halfs days (check in and check out day) and the one full day in the middle. Not the greatest #s!
The most productive flies were #12-#14 pumkin heads, BMWs (Brian's Marabou Wiggler) in maroon, and ruby eyed blood leeches. We switched flies a LOT and these worked best for us. In tried trolling a few chronomids and had no luck, lol!!
Also the last day my g/f was trolling a small green lucky bug and caught 3 fish on it. After not hooking anything for about 3 hours I tied on a small silver with a red head trout killer (tiny spoon) and caught two fish on it in about 30 min. Other guys we talked to were getting fed up with flies and bought a tin of worms, haha!
Overall we really liked Roche Lake and would go back for sure. I'd like to go by myself sometime so I can anchor up and work on my indicator fishing. Still good times slow trolling with the misses and dog in the boat :)
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Not in the classic sense of the word.
But what you CAN do is to fish a chironomid on a fast sinking line while free drifting over a dropoff and letting the line go down deep.
It helps if there is little to no wind and the fly is really close to the bottom. Give the line an occasional twitch
The takes can be savage, so hold on to your rod or keep it in the holder. My biggest trout to date (25", 7#) was caught using this method.
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Well, just our luck, the fishing had cooled off quite a bit when we got there. Heard a lot of grumblings from fly fisherman on the dock, in the lodge, etc.
I tried trolling a few chronomids s-u-p-e-r slow over some shoals, but nothing. In fact they weren't biting much at all for the 3 days were were there.
After trying MANY different flies, what we found worked best was larger flies that were (IMO) likely smashed not so much because they looked like food, but more because there were flashy and annoying. A #8-#10 ruby eyed leach worked well, as did other leech patterns that were flashy and annoying. My g/f caught a few on a pumkin head I tied up that had olive UV sparkle dub in the body.
Overall we loved Roche and would go back again and again. In total we caught about 12 fish in the 3 days. Released all as we were staying in the cabins which included luch + dinner each day. The biggest fish we heard being pulled out was 4lbs and was caught on a wedding band with a juicy worm on the hook.
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It's not so much about trolling chironomids but controlling the drift of the boat to get just enough movement to keep the line tight to the fly. It doesn't work well when there's much wind. Works great with a sinking line but the angle on the line should be 45 degrees or greater.