Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: IronNoggin on July 02, 2019, 12:06:26 PM
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At Osoyoos, Parks Canada announced that a memorandum of understanding towards the creation of the park reserve had been signed between federal and provincial governments and local First Nations.
According to Parks Canada, the national park reserve will encompass 273 square kilometres in the Mount Kobau, Spotted Lake, Kilpoola areas of the South Okanagan and Similkameen, including BC Park’s South Okanagan Grasslands Protected Area.
https://globalnews.ca/news/5452204/national-park-reserve-in-south-okanagan-similkameen-gets-green-light/
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A lot of the local landowners were (and are) VERY resistant to having their lands included. There are a myriad of reasons, but a lot focus on activities that Parks will deny within their eventual fences.
The BC Wildlife Federation was (and is) adamantly opposed: https://bcwf.bc.ca/initiatives/opposing-the-south-okanagan-national-park-reserve/
From what I have been able to determine, the local opposition actually outweighed support. Yet the Feds and Provincial governments, backed by the local FN's (realizing a Private Hunting Reserve after all) pushed it through anyway.
Nog
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From what I have been able to determine, the local opposition actually outweighed support. Yet the Feds and Provincial governments, backed by the local FN's (realizing a Private Hunting Reserve after all) pushed it through anyway.
Nog
Just the opposite, which surprised me. We live up here now and attended the public consultations and opposition was underwhelming (except for a few disrespectful "no" protestors that didn't help their cause). Even looking at the results of the non-random online survey, which is usually swamped by opposition forces rallying to the cause, of the only 41% that voiced any concerns about a park, restricted use/access and hunting/fishing were only raised by 14% and 8% respectively. We're clearly a small and shrinking part of the outdoors community up here. Even the ranchers seemed somewhat placated by assurances their crown grazing rights are safe. I suspect some are looking at Parks Canada's land buyout as a long-term option.
I think if the park proposal had been raised before 1990 when the demographics of the south Okanagan began to rapidly change, it would have been a non starter. I've had a hard time finding another fisherman amongst the hoards of us wine-swilling retirees.
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Weren't most of the local fishing lakes left out of the National Park? Some were established as Provincial parks or eco-preserves since the Province will stock lakes in a park but Parks Canada will not.
Noticed that prior to yesterday's announcement, the BCWF did not even reach 10% of the target on their opposition letter.
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Weren't most of the local fishing lakes left out of the National Park? Some were established as Provincial parks or eco-preserves since the Province will stock lakes in a park but Parks Canada will not.
Noticed that prior to yesterday's announcement, the BCWF did not even reach 10% of the target on their opposition letter.
Sawmill?
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20 years ago the conspiracy world was sounding the alarm of massive land grabs by FN, nature conservancies/Trusts and parks. They warned us that in the future people will have nowhere else to roam except for cities and towns. A way to control the population and monitor the population. I always find the odd theory interesting. Some end up being true. I hope not this one.
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... Some end up being true. I hope not this one.
You may want to do a little looking at Agenda 21 - something that Trudeau is in FULL SUPPORT of.
Nog
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20 years ago the conspiracy world was sounding the alarm of massive land grabs by FN, nature conservancies/Trusts and parks. They warned us that in the future people will have nowhere else to roam except for cities and towns. A way to control the population and monitor the population. I always find the odd theory interesting. Some end up being true. I hope not this one.
Not conspiracy and it goes back to the UN well over 30 or more years.
Australia, New Zealand, Canada and to some extent the US are all dealing with various forms of it. Harper wanted no part of it, JT loves the UN.
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..and also endorsed by 177 other Governments...it's all about sustainability so I understand why you don't seem to support it 'Nog.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_21
https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4465
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You may want to do a little looking at Agenda 21 - something that Trudeau is in FULL SUPPORT of.
Nog
Yep
https://abacusdata.ca/theres-a-conservation-consensus/
https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/content/documents/20872VNR_hanbook_2019_Edition_v3.pdf
https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/house/latest/hansard
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..and also endorsed by 177 other Governments...it's all about sustainability so I understand why you don't seem to support it 'Nog.
Why am I not at all surprised by your take on that Ralphie Ol' Boy? (https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/ROFLMAO.gif)
Unfortunately for you, your hero will be gonzo come October.
And I can't wait!
Cheers!
Nog
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_21
Anti-Agenda 21 conspiracy theories have circulated in the U.S. Some Tea Party movement activists and others promoted the notion that Agenda 21 was part of a UN plot to deny property rights, undermine U.S. sovereignty, or force citizens to move to cities.[21][22][9][16][23] Activists believed that the non-binding UN resolution was "the linchpin in a plot to subjugate humanity under an eco-totalitarian regime."[22] The conspiracy theory had its roots in anti-environmentalist ideology and opposition to land-use regulation.[23] Agenda 21 fears have played a role in opposition to local government's efforts to promote resource and land conservation, build bike lanes, and construct hubs for public transportation.[21]
Seriously, keep it real. It's a bloody proposal for a park, not a harbinger of a zombie apocalypse or the end of days.
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Why am I not at all surprised by your take on that Ralphie Ol' Boy? (https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/ROFLMAO.gif)
Unfortunately for you, your hero will be gonzo come October.
And I can't wait!
Cheers!
Nog
...and in the mean time you jump on board any whack-job nut-bar conspiracy theory that seems to oppose him .... sounds about right.
Agenda 21 is the favorite conspiracy theory of a lot of nut cases. The answer is No. Agenda 21 is nothing but a voluntary framework for sustainable development in the third world. Canada is a first world, not a third world country and Agenda 21, which was written in 1996, has no application here. All sorts of tinfoil hat wearers dream up all sorts of nonsense about Agenda 21 that simply is not true.
BTW Agenda 21 has been replaced by Agenda 2030....you are so yesterday
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_21
Anti-Agenda 21 conspiracy theories have circulated in the U.S. Some Tea Party movement activists and others promoted the notion that Agenda 21 was part of a UN plot to deny property rights, undermine U.S. sovereignty, or force citizens to move to cities.[21][22][9][16][23] Activists believed that the non-binding UN resolution was "the linchpin in a plot to subjugate humanity under an eco-totalitarian regime."[22] The conspiracy theory had its roots in anti-environmentalist ideology and opposition to land-use regulation.[23] Agenda 21 fears have played a role in opposition to local government's efforts to promote resource and land conservation, build bike lanes, and construct hubs for public transportation.[21]
Seriously, keep it real. It's a bloody proposal for a park, not a harbinger of a zombie apocalypse or the end of days.
All okay till it comes to your favourite hunting or fishing spot
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...it's all about sustainability so I understand why you don't seem to support it 'Nog.
Yep, I guess it is possible that Fishing w Rod's self acclaimed expert on everything might understand sustainability somewhat better than a former Canadian CITES Delegate and continuous member of the Sustainable Use Committee since the early 90's. (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
Carry on... ;D
Nog
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...and that's why your Agenda 21 comment to me seems so incongruous and such a non-sequitur.
Cheers
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The truth is non of us peasants know the real reason. Is it really for sustainability and protecting the environment? Or something else. Truth is, we only know what we're told.
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20 years ago the conspiracy world was sounding the alarm of massive land grabs by FN, nature conservancies/Trusts and parks. They warned us that in the future people will have nowhere else to roam except for cities and towns. A way to control the population and monitor the population. I always find the odd theory interesting. Some end up being true. I hope not this one.
I agree that the government and other elites would like to keep the 'common' people rounded up in designated areas that are well populated. Its called 'control', the opposite of 'freedom, and the global and even national elites do NOT want the common person having too much freedom. I don't think that is really even a secret.
In fact....logic and common sense show that every time we get more innovative technology....our privacy seems to disappear more and more....so yeah....I wouldn't be laughing at agenda 21.....at the very least it will be in the back of the minds of the ones who have the power to pull it off.
As for the National Park....we don't need any more national parks....just another excuse to cut off access to us outdoors types.
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--There are a number of issues...some have been somewhat resolved or made more clear by the most current edition of a published "proposed boundary". The original and still area of interest in the first proposal was significantly larger.
--Some perspective on what is at stake for local area fishers there were 5 stocked lakes, including Sawmill/Burnell (local trophy lake). The current boundary excludes 3 of the lakes in a strip of land which is between two areas of interest. To put this in perspective for locals...there are not many lakes for fishing in the vicinity thus every lake is important for locals. If we were excluding 5 lakes in Kamloops area there are many more options, here these are basically the only small lake fishing opportunities if close proximity.
--One can imagine when you see a map with a narrow strip excluded and a big stamp on it that it is not necessarily the final boundary, one gets suspicions that the strip won't be excluded for long.
--So how long do local residents have to keep up the fight for local use and control? Myself and others have been at countless meetings for years over this dating back to the Okanagan TSA guidlines
---Note: below is a cut and paste from the 2001 document
--Okanagan-Shuswap Land and Resource Management PlanThe Okanagan-Shuswap Land and Resource Management Plan (OSLRMP) is a strategicCrown land use plan for the Okanagan-Shuswap. The plan covers all of the Crown land and resources, including lakes and rivers within the plan area. The plan itself consists of maps of resource management zones (RMZs) and proposed new protected areas (PAs) and text that containland and resource management objectives and strategies that apply to the entire Crown land base, as well as additional objectives and strategies that are specific to each of the identified zones.The provincial government initiatedthe OSLRMP process in July 1995. Over 4.5 years a group of 30stakeholders representing a diverse range of interests and local governments met to develop a recommended LRMP. On September 9, 2000 the OSLRMP Table reached full agreement on a package of LRMP recommendations which was intended by the Table members to bring land use certainty to resource interests and direction to government managers in the plan area.On January 18, 2001, the Okanagan-Shuswap LRMP was approved by Cabinet. While the base linefor management at that time was the Forest Practices Code, the LRMP represents Cabinet directed policy, to be considered by statutory decision makers. Where the LRMP directs management 'above' the requirements of the FPC it was indicated that there will a "higher level plan" developed that elevates those items from policy (LRMP) to legislation (HLP) so that they override those legal elements of the FPC.
--So for those who have not been paying attention this guideline resulted from many years of local stakeholders consultation, meetings fighting&celebrating along the way. My view is that this "Local" plan was good and can adapt to the changing needs of the community and the land. Why would local people want to or need to relinquish local control for control by the Federal Government that can and will impose rules with very little influence by local area residents? It is a huge slap in the face to those who have worked for many years in a spirit of inclusion and compromise to meet both the needs of area residents and the Land.
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--So for those who have not been paying attention this guideline resulted from many years of local stakeholders consultation, meetings fighting&celebrating along the way. My view is that this "Local" plan was good and can adapt to the changing needs of the community and the land. Why would local people want to or need to relinquish local control for control by the Federal Government that can and will impose rules with very little influence by local area residents? It is a huge slap in the face to those who have worked for many years in a spirit of inclusion and compromise to meet both the needs of area residents and the Land.
I think it clear that the unsettled comprehensive land claims of the Syilx/Okanagan Nation for most of the proposed park reserve are an important driver and why the Feds are involved. Only the Federal Government can settle land claims and setting the lands aside as a National Park Reserve in collaboration/joint management with the bands may meet both conservation and land claims goals. No doubt that is what brought the Province back to the table after withdrawing in 2011.
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adamently opposed to national parks or any sort of land closure/restriction/agenda 21/UN.
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Why am I not at all surprised by your take on that Ralphie Ol' Boy? (https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/ROFLMAO.gif)
Unfortunately for you, your hero will be gonzo come October.
And I can't wait!
Cheers!
Nog
cant wait.