Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: JBB on October 12, 2022, 06:06:20 PM
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i was at the Vedder on the straight run just below Allison Pools and watched a group of guys catch some coho in a way I had not seen before. When I asked about the technique they explained that they were sight fishing . The technique used a bare hook and some weights above the short leader and they held their casts until they spotted a fish. They then made a short cast and attempted to guide the bare hook into the fish's mouth and set the hook. Is that snagging or is it considered ethical ?
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That should be Fishing not Fising. BTW, I am not trying to stir the pot. I was just asking for your opinion.
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Snagging
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i was at the Vedder on the straight run just below Allison Pools and watched a group of guys catch some coho in a way I had not seen before. When I asked about the technique they explained that they were sight fishing . The technique used a bare hook and some weights above the short leader and they held their casts until they spotted a fish. They then made a short cast and attempted to guide the bare hook into the fish's mouth and set the hook. Is that snagging or is it considered ethical ?
step down from flossing :P
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Also known as “short line flossing”.
It takes skill, and I appreciate the effort to not snag the fish in the body, but it’s not fishing. Just like going to a U Pick apple orchard isn’t considered farming.
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Saw this near banter last weekend... all the fish are stacked at the moment even if your short floating you will floss fish. When the water is this low it isn't fair chase.
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Sight snagging
Hopefully they are fined and have their car / fishing equipment seized.
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Sight snagging
Hopefully they are fined and have their car / fishing equipment seized.
Why so extreme? its not even illegal to floss - plus with low water most of the fish are potentially flossed......
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It's a first world problem. Only the complacent know the answer.
Just like going to a U Pick apple orchard isn’t considered farming.
You pick apples? Where? does the orchard owner realize he isn't farming?
Still looking for a u-pick winery! I guess it ruins it all now since I don't grow the grapes!
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what if a fish goes to strike your lure but misses and it snags the outside of the maxilla.
is it still snagging or do we need to take into considerations the fishes willingness to bite the lure.
;D
or what if you using two hooks like in the ocean and one is in the mouth and the other is snagged to the outside of the fish?
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what if a fish goes to strike your lure but misses and it snags the outside of the maxilla.
is it still snagging or do we need to take into considerations the fishes willingness to bite the lure.
;D
or what if you using two hooks like in the ocean and one is in the mouth and the other is snagged to the outside of the fish?
A post catch interview is clearly overdue.
(https://lowres.cartooncollections.com/animals-talking_fish-talking_animals-fishes-fishing_store-hobbies-leisure-CC145910_low.jpg)
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what if a fish goes to strike your lure but misses and it snags the outside of the maxilla.
is it still snagging or do we need to take into considerations the fishes willingness to bite the lure.
;D
or what if you using two hooks like in the ocean and one is in the mouth and the other is snagged to the outside of the fish?
why then you must go to bed without any supper!
FWIW what the OP alleges these guys were doing is fishing by any common dictionary definition of the word.
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A post catch interview is clearly overdue.
(https://lowres.cartooncollections.com/animals-talking_fish-talking_animals-fishes-fishing_store-hobbies-leisure-CC145910_low.jpg)
lol if i could i would give thumbs up and a like, that was funny as hell
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It's SNAGGING period no ifs and or buts. They are using bare hook and trying to set it in the fish's mouth. How many times do they SNAG a fish in the belly or tail. 1/20 in the mouth is irrelevant.
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what if a fish goes to strike your lure but misses and it snags the outside of the maxilla.
is it still snagging or do we need to take into considerations the fishes willingness to bite the lure.
;D
or what if you using two hooks like in the ocean and one is in the mouth and the other is snagged to the outside of the fish?
Why don't you go fish below the boundary again and ask the CO your question. Post a pic of the ticket and the reply .....
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Snagging has a legal definition. People should check it out on page 80 of the Fishing synopsis:
snagging (foul hooking): hooking a fish in any other part of its body other than the mouth. Attempting to snag fish of any species is prohibited.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/freshwater-fishing/fishing_synopsis.pdf
all this ethics stuff has little real meaning. I try to live my own set of ethics which may be similar to yours. However I don't see it as my business to bother people who don't live mine. If what they are doing is contrary to the law I may say something and discuss it with them, very carefully.
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Snagging has a legal definition. People should check it out on page 80 of the Fishing synopsis:
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/freshwater-fishing/fishing_synopsis.pdf
all this ethics stuff has little real meaning. I try to live my own set of ethics which may be similar to yours. However I don't see it as my business to bother people who don't live mine. If what they are doing is contrary to the law I may say something and discuss it with them, very carefully.
Seconded.
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Fishing with no bait / no lure - just a Bare Hook....
Clearly this is attempting to snag fish and will result in foul hooked fish. They probably rip hard at the end of each drift or during the retrieve.
Hopefully a CO tickets the hell out anyone doing this and takes all their fishing gear .
People in the lower-mainland need to smarten up and start to respect the wonderful nature we are blessed with here in BC.
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Fishing with no bait / no lure - just a Bare Hook....
Clearly this is attempting to snag fish and will result in foul hooked fish. They probably rip hard at the end of each drift or during the retrieve.
Hopefully a CO tickets the hell out anyone doing this and takes all their fishing gear .
People in the lower-mainland need to smarten up and start to respect the wonderful nature we are blessed with here in BC.
X2.
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Fishing with no bait / no lure - just a Bare Hook....
Clearly this is attempting to snag fish and will result in foul hooked fish.
there is no regulation that bans the use of a bare hook. (there was once one that applied to sturgeon fishing only).
With the prevalence of 'pegging' beads like the BNB approach it's hard to imagine how such a regulation can be made.
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If what they are doing is contrary to the law I may say something and discuss it with them, very carefully.
Was down at Brownsville Bar the other day, lots of anglers out despite the regs being what they are. An older couple hooked a wild trout and beached it. One of the regulars walked over and told them it wasn't legal to keep. The couple didn't seem to understand due to accidental ignorance, willful ignorance, or a language barrier, so the angler walked over, unhooked the fish from their line, and released it while the couple stood by.
It was uncomfortable to watch, though I'm glad the regular had the willingness to step in. He took the time afterwards to explain the regs to them, and also drew some pictures in the sand about ID'ing fish. He was friendly about it all, despite the situation being super awkward. The couple didn't seem to have any idea about fish ID'ing in the Fraser, or what was legal to keep. They caught a 4" sole a few minutes later and carried it over to him to ask what it was.
Good work random guy! I think that most people (myself included) just don't have the appetite to get involved with strangers who may or may not be receptive to the message being conveyed.
(If that was you at Brownsville, send me a PM and I'll introduce myself if I see you again ;D)
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Yup.....there was another guy sight fishing in the canal this morning....only he was doing it slightly more ethically :o since he actually had a spoon type lure (no bare hook) about 6' below his float, sight fishing 2-3 ft of water....he did well literally snagging 3 ho's (one clearly mid-body in the side), in succession and yarding them catapult style (like they do in the bass tourneys) up the 6ft embankment he was standing on and I swear straight through the air into a waiting garbage bag with zero attempt/intent on checking for adipose.....guys on the opposite bank were yelling "fow hook, fow hook" in broken English AND in unison, to no avail...ironically they were Asian guys yelling at him.....I had a chuckle...it went straight into his bag and he continued on ignoring the taunts....the odd thing was I couldn't even give him the benefit of the doubt as being a newbie since he was in street clothes (no wading gear or any gear for that matter) other than his spinning rod cuz he was casting that thing pretty proficiently for a newb....I observed all this from 100m upstream and when I left drove up and down the dyke looking for a CO determined to point the guy out but guess what....no enforcement of any sort in the hottest poaching bed in the lower mainland... :o..I guess the Vedder is way too much potential work for the CO's
I've seen natives fishing this exact same way in the Cap which they are allowed to do (they can do anything they want you know) but this guy was no native so no reprieve there either ......Black, Afro-American (Somali???) in dark blue track suit, his spinning rod and a garbage bag full of who knows how many illegal ho...at least 3
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Yup.....there was another guy sight fishing in the canal this morning....only he was doing it slightly more ethically :o since he actually had a spoon type lure (no bare hook) about 6' below his float, sight fishing 2-3 ft of water....he did well literally snagging 3 ho's (one clearly mid-body in the side), in succession and yarding them catapult style (like they do in the bass tourneys) up the 6ft embankment he was standing on and I swear straight through the air into a waiting garbage bag with zero attempt/intent on checking for adipose.....guys on the opposite bank were yelling "foul hooked, foul hooked" in broken English AND in unison, to no avail...ironically they were Asian guys yelling at him.....I had a chuckle...it went straight into his bag and he continued on ignoring the taunts....the odd thing was I couldn't even give him the benefit of the doubt as being a newbie since he was in street clothes (no wading gear or any gear for that matter) other than his spinning rod cuz he was casting that thing pretty proficiently for a newb....I observed all this from 100m upstream and when I left drove up and down the dyke looking for a CO determined to point the guy out but guess what....no enforcement of any sort in the hottest poaching bed in the lower mainland... :o..I guess the Vedder is way too much potential work for the CO's
I've seen natives fishing this exact same way in the Cap which they are allowed to do (they can do anything they want you know) but this guy was no native so no reprieve there either ......Black, Afro-American (Somali???) in dark blue track suit, his spinning rod and a garbage bag full of who knows how many illegal ho...at least 3
What a racism laden comment ! - congrats on being equally repulsive guy as the snagger
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there is no regulation that bans the use of a bare hook. (there was once one that applied to sturgeon fishing only).
With the prevalence of 'pegging' beads like the BNB approach it's hard to imagine how such a regulation can be made.
Beads are not the same as using a singly bare hook by itself.
Using only a bare hook and jerking it occasionally on the retrieve is unethical and should be ticketed by a CO.
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Yup.....there was another guy sight fishing in the canal this morning....only he was doing it slightly more ethically :o since he actually had a spoon type lure (no bare hook) about 6' below his float, sight fishing 2-3 ft of water....he did well literally snagging 3 ho's (one clearly mid-body in the side), in succession and yarding them catapult style (like they do in the bass tourneys) up the 6ft embankment he was standing on and I swear straight through the air into a waiting garbage bag with zero attempt/intent on checking for adipose.....guys on the opposite bank were yelling "fow hook, fow hook" in broken English AND in unison, to no avail...ironically they were Asian guys yelling at him.....I had a chuckle...it went straight into his bag and he continued on ignoring the taunts....the odd thing was I couldn't even give him the benefit of the doubt as being a newbie since he was in street clothes (no wading gear or any gear for that matter) other than his spinning rod cuz he was casting that thing pretty proficiently for a newb....I observed all this from 100m upstream and when I left drove up and down the dyke looking for a CO determined to point the guy out but guess what....no enforcement of any sort in the hottest poaching bed in the lower mainland... :o..I guess the Vedder is way too much potential work for the CO's
I've seen natives fishing this exact same way in the Cap which they are allowed to do (they can do anything they want you know) but this guy was no native so no reprieve there either ......Black, Afro-American (Somali???) in dark blue track suit, his spinning rod and a garbage bag full of who knows how many illegal ho...at least 3
not true at all, I saw 5 CO at vedder canal, yes 5.. /6 in chilliwack region
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Beads are not the same as using a singly bare hook by itself.
Using only a bare hook and jerking it occasionally on the retrieve is unethical and should be ticketed by a CO.
some people just won't get this (as in it is willful). FOs/COs, even the RCMP can't issue an infraction ticket for unethical behavior. It has to be illegal.
There is a bare hook an inch or more behind a pegged bead. A law against use of a bare hook has be able to make the distinction. Most people who write such laws would likely just throw up their hands and not bother.
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ITs far easier for DFO just to close it to salmon fishing then to bother with anything else.
It doesn't seem like there is any concern for wild populations and as long as the hatchery gets what it needs there doesn't seem to be a push to stop all the snagging behavior.
DFO a few years ago actually propose a closure in the stave because it was getting to many complaints and tickets. Local SFAB fought to keep it open saying its an enforcement issue. I believe they caught one person with over 25 fish in their pickup truck.
The difference tho between the stave and vedder is people fishing on the actual spawning grounds rippin fish off their redds.
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What a racism laden comment ! - congrats on being equally repulsive guy as the snagger
Where is the racism? The snagger described was not a WASP, wearing a leisure suit, platform boots and rose-colored glasses.
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some people just won't get this (as in it is willful). FOs/COs, even the RCMP can't issue an infraction ticket for unethical behavior. It has to be illegal.
There is a bare hook an inch or more behind a pegged bead. A law against use of a bare hook has be able to make the distinction. Most people who write such laws would likely just throw up their hands and not bother.
Some people just won't get this..... but fishing with a bare hook only will most certainly lead to snagging salmon
Keeping a snagged salmon is illegal and CO's should definately be monitoring those fishing in this manner.
Best case scenario is people fishing the Chilliwack should be helpful to new fishers that may or may not be aware of the proper ways to fish this great river. This site does a huge service in that regard.
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lol what's there to debate about. There is one word which would settle it.
Intent.
If a C&P officer or CO sees that your intent is to willfully foul hooking fish, then you will be fined.
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sorry Rod but the principle of Mens Rea ( the guilty mind, which is what you refer to) works both ways. Without intent there can be no infraction. Challenges in court to such charges have been over turned and dismissed. People need to read both the original post and the definition of snagging. If fish are hooked in the mouth it matters not that they did not "strike" or "bite". It doesn't meet the definition.
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What a racism laden comment ! - congrats on being equally repulsive guy as the snagger
WOW....that’s about as weak as trolls come....
Thought about just ignoring the troll for the insignificance that it is, but for the record and for what it's worth....last I checked, and contrary to your belief, some/many of my closest and dearest friends/associates include either Asian, Black and/or East/NA Indian ....so I guess that settles that.
The intent was to paint a vivid factual picture of exactly what I observed hoping other legit anglers (and hopefully CO types) could perhaps use the description to aid in recognizing the perp in the future....I wonder if you take offense to people wishing you a “Merry Christmas !!!” too ::)
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I took that far I agree, we all as humans strive to be better versions of ourselves, what triggered me is you mentioning "ironically they were Asian guys yelling at him" - this implies that Asians usually do not follow the rules but yet they were the ones yelling or correcting the snagger...... I get it, subconsciously people have certain perceptions about a certain community and thats human nature, but would be nice to make that effort of not generalizing....Sorry to have called you a racist...
There are few bad apples in every community.....
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lol what's there to debate about. There is one word which would settle it.
Intent.
If a C&P officer or CO sees that your intent is to willfully foul hooking fish, then you will be fined.
Thanks Rodney.
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guys on the opposite bank were yelling "fow hook, fow hook" in broken English AND in unison, to no avail...ironically they were Asian guys yelling at him
I don’t get the irony of this.