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[bigblue]

I agree that salmon sport fishing is big business, but multi billion dollar? And a third of all US fishing licenses?  

Curious if you can provide a reputable source for those statements. In my experience, they seem to be exaggerated.

According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Great Lakes Environmental Reserach Laboratory (a US Federal Government Agency), sport fishing industry of Great Lakes area contributes $4 billion dollars to local economy. Refer to the agency web site for facts regarding this matter.

http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/pr/ourlakes/facts.html

Regarding the number of license issued, I read it in one of many salmon fishing books I own at home. As I am travelling right now, I can't access them. However, Great Lakes basin accounts for 12% of US population with strong local sports fishing tradition plus many people visiting from out of state to fish in the Great Lakes area which accounts for the $4 billion dollar sports fishing industry. It is not far fetched that lot more licenses would be sold in this area than other states with limited fishing resources skewing the % up. I will post the title and page of the book when I get home.

[clarki]

According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Great Lakes Environmental Reserach Laboratory (a US Federal Government Agency), sport fishing industry of Great Lakes area contributes $4 billion dollars to local economy. Refer to the agency web site for facts regarding this matter.

http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/pr/ourlakes/facts.html

Agreed. The entire sports fishing industry contributes $4 billion, however you stated "that salmon sport fishing is  a multi billion dollar industry"  That's an inaccurate inference from the information provided.

Walleye is a huge fishery, not to mention perch, bass and trout... In addition, Lake St. Clair is not considered to be a great lake but I expect that the sport fishing dollar figures includes that fishery, and it is massive for muskie, wallye, bass, and perch

I'd also be interested for you to confirm how 12% of the population accounts for 33% of fishing licenses.

Noting personal. I just like people to back up their claims that they present as fact.

[bigblue]

Agreed. The entire sports fishing industry contributes $4 billion, however you stated "that salmon sport fishing is  a multi billion dollar industry"  That's an inaccurate inference from the information provided.

Walleye is a huge fishery, not to mention perch, bass and trout... In addition, Lake St. Clair is not considered to be a great lake but I expect that the sport fishing dollar figures includes that fishery, and it is massive for muskie, wallye, bass, and perch

I'd also be interested for you to confirm how 12% of the population accounts for 33% of fishing licenses.

Noting personal. I just like people to back up their claims that they present as fact.

As I said before I am currently on the road on a business trip and can't access my library of books from where I read those numbers.
Will let you know, and to be honest, I don't want to argue with you about this matter.
So far you have not presented any facts to prove I am wrong either!
You are guessing based on your memory of Lake Huron. Not based on facts as you are demanding from me.  

[Fish or cut bait.]

The salmon there are no different that a land locked salmon here. As for all the bass in those lakes you are right. There are also crappie, perch, walleye, pike, and musky, which is why I don't by the propaganda pitched locally by the anti bass community.

Because THEY"RE ALL PLANTED
Any wild, indigenous fish (worth catching) that can't survive the introduction of an invasive species are  already gone with nothing to preserve.
They'll just restock (from BC stock......... as long as that's available)

[iblly]

Is this still a fishing report from Buffalo, N.Y. ?

[bigblue]

Agreed. The entire sports fishing industry contributes $4 billion, however you stated "that salmon sport fishing is  a multi billion dollar industry"  That's an inaccurate inference from the information provided.

Found the quote regarding salmon fishing being a multi-billion dollar industry in the Great Lakes region.

It's from "Steelhead Float Fishing - Modern Techniques & Method" written by Jim Butler and published by Frank Amato Publications in 2004.
In Chapter 11 of the book titled Chinook Salmon on page 75 line 36:

" ~ The Chinook initiative finally did take root throughout the late 1960s and 70s and along with it coho cousin it gave birth to a mulltibillion dollar a year sports fishery."

The beginning part of this chapter covers history of salmon introduction to Great Lakes and there is lots of information in this chapter.

That is the source you requested.

I was able to find this as I was carrying this book on my trip.

Give me time and I will find the other quote on "fishing license issue" raised because I also read that from another book which I am trying to remember as I have many books on Salmon/Steelhead fishing and most are at my house.

Sorry for going off the thread iblly, but I had to answer this.
 

[bigblue]

I'd also be interested for you to confirm how 12% of the population accounts for 33% of fishing licenses.

Just to clarify, I never said "33%" in my post, I said "something like one third" by which I meant "around a third".
If my memory serves me right, the author of the book I read also said the same thing.

As I am sitting in my hotel room by myself with nothing better to do, I decided to do some digging to see if the author of the book I read was talking about near ball park numbers.

US Fish and Wildlife Services in the past has issued annual National Fishing License Report by state and the latest data in their web site was from 2003.
I guess this also got slashed after Bush came in.

http://wsfrprograms.fws.gov/Subpages/LicenseInfo/FishingLicCertHistory.pdf

I used this data to see what the share for 8 great lakes states were (numbers are in thousand dollars) in 2003:

MN     $26,340
WI      $24,390
IL        $8,954
IN        $9,924
MI       $22,318
OH      $12,430
PA       $19,039
NY       $21,399
Total   $144,794
50 state total  $512,970

Great Lakes states share of license sales: 28% for 2003.

The author did not state what year his numbers were based on so depending on year, it could very well have been higher than this.
The back data goes back to 1958, but I don't have the intention to run all of them.

Anyway, I think it would not be misleading for someone to say "around one third" for 28%.
If I crunched all the numbers back to 1958, I think it is highly likely that a higher number will pop out.
But do I really need to do that?

Regarding the original source book, I will have that posted when I get home.

Sorry again for going off the thread.

 

[brownmancheng]

Touché
 

[joska]

Is this still a fishing report from Buffalo, N.Y. ?

it is... its called the snow ball effect. no thread can stay on topic long. but its all relvent to the area and species of fish in the report..

[newsman]

Because THEY"RE ALL PLANTED
Any wild, indigenous fish (worth catching) that can't survive the introduction of an invasive species are  already gone with nothing to preserve.
They'll just restock (from BC stock......... as long as that's available)

If what you say is true then why do we have so many productive and self sustaining trout lakes in BC since 80% were barren until stocked in the early 1900's.

[clarki]

Found the quote regarding salmon fishing being a multi-billion dollar industry in the Great Lakes region.

" ~ The Chinook initiative finally did take root throughout the late 1960s and 70s and along with it coho cousin it gave birth to a mulltibillion dollar a year sports fishery."

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate you digging up the background info. Sorry, I don't buy Mr. Butler's claim. Without substantiating data, it is just a opinion and it isn't consistent with the data you posted previous of a $4B entire sport fishery.

With regards to the license numbers, I want to haggle your premise that just because a state fronts on the Great Lakes that it is therefore part of the Great Lakes Region and you should count the state's entire license sales (i.e Pennsylvania). I would venture that the figure is closer to 20-25% of licenses that are tied to the Great Lakes fishery, however that is more than I expected and is interesting.

Big Blue, I can tell that you are a reader. I think you would enjoy a book that I loved. It is written by my favourite outdoor author, Jerry Dennis, and is called "The Living Great Lakes: Searching for the Heart of the Inland Seas" ". He writes about his sailing trip on a tall ship from Lake Michigan, through the Great Lakes and out the Erie Canal to New York. All about the history, lore, ecology, fisheries, climate, hydrology of the Great lakes. Fascinating read. Cheers.

[bigblue]

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate you digging up the background info. Sorry, I don't buy Mr. Butler's claim. Without substantiating data, it is just a opinion and it isn't consistent with the data you posted previous of a $4B entire sport fishery.

With regards to the license numbers, I want to haggle your premise that just because a state fronts on the Great Lakes that it is therefore part of the Great Lakes Region and you should count the state's license sales (i.e Pennsylvania). I would venture that the figure is closer to 20-25% of licenses that are tied to the Great Lakes fishery, however that is more than I expected and is interesting.

Big Blue, I can tell that you are a reader. I think you would enjoy a book that I loved. It is written by my favourite outdoor author Jerry Dennis and is called "The Great Lakes". He writes about his sailing trip on a tall ship from Lake Michigan, through the Great Lakes and out the Erie Canal to New York. All about the history, lore, ecology,fisheries, climate, hydrology of teh Great lakes. Fascinating read. Cheers

At the end of the day we all have to make our own judgement call on whether we will accept something that is in a published book as a fact. I assume and hope that authors of published books will do reasonable amount of research before they write a book on a specialised subject as it might very welll be quoted by future readers of the book and turned into a fact.  How much research Jim Butler did on the salmon sports fishing industry size, I really don't know, but I would speculate that he would have done research at the very least comparable to other fishing books published by various authors on salmon/steelhead fishing as the book is quite comprehensive. Most fishing books are written not by university professors or PhD researchers, but life time sports fisherman, and I guess we as readers look for their insights on how to catch more fish when we read these books.

Anyway, clarki, thanks for your recommendation on the Great Lakes book.
One more book to buy and read. Tight lines!

[Fish or cut bait.]

If what you say is true then why do we have so many productive and self sustaining trout lakes in BC since 80% were barren until stocked in the early 1900's.

Though that may be true it did come at a loss. 
A number of indigenous species were predated upon and many wiped out in certain areas (who cares about a frog, a newt, a....) and these areas' NATURAL ecology was altered.

But I should hope that we've learned something over the last Hundred years.

You can't rewrite history, wave a magic wand and make it as it once was but you don't have to replace one misinformed evil with an intentional one.

A lot of folks obviously enjoy Bass fishing for whatever reason but I don't think introducing them and the competition they will create to an area where other habitated species presently reside (and some that are threatened) will serve anything other than a selfish interest that will be served at the cost of the present (and hopefully future) residents.

There are closed areas where they've been stocked (by the government) and enjoyed and there are other areas where they've thrived because some BOZO thought it would be neat if they could catch a Bass; wihout even thinking it would be at the expense of other species.