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[mastercaster]

I caught part of Gary Cooper's show (even though I think it's a lousy fishing show) yesterday and saw him playing a 25 to 30 lb. spring on a fly rod.  It took him about a half hour + to get it in as opposed to half that for the guys using stiffer 11' rods.  The first thing I'm thinking is he's playing the fish to death in order to get it in.  I constantly hear or read battle after battle on this same topic regarding taking Thompson steelies on the fly and playing them until they're tired enough to land from the gear fisherman.  Of course the fly guys think otherwise.

Anyway, on the next segment of the show Cooper was saying anglers have e-mailed him with tons of complaints saying just that...but then he said something that sounded like it made sense.

He said playing the springs with conventional gear was kind of like a guy going out for a run with 10 lb. weight in his hands.  You will tire very quickly and have to stop running ( not unlike salmon carrying a pound of lead and fighting a current  ie. bar fishing).  On the other hand if you were going on a run with 1/2 lb. weights in your hands you could run much longer and would recover faster because you'd build up less lactic acid. You're probably tired from doing either but you are more than likely going to experience more wear and tear on the body from carrying the heavier weights.  Maybe this old fart has something there??   

For myself when I know I'm releasing fish I try to play the fish as hard as possible so I can quickly send it on it's way. It needs very little time for recovery but you really don't know what's happened to the fish five minutes later although I'm pretty certain they're doing just fine because I have caught the same fish later on or the next day before.  But I also know from experience there's a lot more injuries racing a 100m sprint than going for a half hour run.  What do you guys think??  Is it OK to play these fish out on lighter gear when practing C and R?

[Fish Assassin]

Sorry I don't buy Gary's argument. He makes a big deal in his shows about how sporting it is to fight a big coho and chinooks on a fly rod blank. Only problem is he doesn't show how long it takes to bring the fish into the boat.

[Rodney]

Since when do fish have the ability to pace themselves without reaching anaerobic threashold? Must be that heartrate monitor behind the pectoral fins telling them, "You are running to fast! Slow down, this way you can go longer."

[Gooey]

My thoughts exactly FF, you can land a 200 lb tarpon or tuna on a 12 weight...unless he stated the weight of the rod, you cant evaluate whether or not the rod is too light and requires a prolonged battle.  I can tell you that a fly rod in general is a lot more limber and whippier than a standard drift rod and with no lower cork to leverage the rod with, a fly rod would be way more work on the fisherman but not necesarily the fish. 

[Fish Assassin]

Since when do fish have the ability to pace themselves without reaching anaerobic threashold? Must be that heartrate monitor behind the pectoral fins telling them, "You are running to fast! Slow down, this way you can go longer."

Guess you must have missed that lecture at UBC Rodney

[mastercaster]

Sorry I don't buy Gary's argument. He makes a big deal in his shows about how sporting it is to fight a big coho and chinooks on a fly rod blank. Only problem is he doesn't show how long it takes to bring the fish into the boat.

On the show I saw he said it takes about a half hour to bring the fish in.  He say he also kills alot of the fish he catches (another thing I don't like about the show).  I guess if you planned on bonking the fish it wouldn't really matter how long it took to bring in the fish but I will stick with my "get'r done and let them go quick" philosophy. 

I think what bothers me even more than the long play time of large fish like springs and steelies up at rivers like the T is that sometimes you see a half a dozen pics taken of steelhead and the person who caught the fish on the fly...not to mention the fish being held up by the person who didn't catch the fish for a shot or two, as well, before the fish is released.  I mean it's great to catch a large fish on the fly but after you get it to hand, take a quick shot if you need to, and send the tired fish on it's way.

[kellya]

mastercaster i dont see what your complaining about. Was this in the chuck? a 30lber on gear with heavy line can take 15+ min easy nothing wrong with keeping a fish either. C&R is a great idea but most guys in the chuck keep what they catch.

[newsman]

All good points. Here's mine; what ever gear you use, work the fish hard. If you do it right the fish should swim from your hands as soon as you turn it into the current. If your rod isn't strong enough to do that, then you are not using a heavy enough rod and leader.

 I catch Springs on my fly rod (fly fishing is all I do) and they swim away without all the reviving. I have been accussed of being unsporting a time or two, but hey I don't play my fish to death. Anyone using anything under a 9wt lots of backbone for Springs does not impress me.

[mastercaster]

mastercaster i dont see what your complaining about. Was this in the chuck? a 30lber on gear with heavy line can take 15+ min easy nothing wrong with keeping a fish either. C&R is a great idea but most guys in the chuck keep what they catch.

I totally agree with you about keeping a fish when you're out in the chuck but when you fish in the Charlottes or up towards Alaska like these guys who have the fishing shows get to do you can get into as many as a dozen or more a day so babying in fish isn't the best idea when you HAVE to release fish.  I wasn't complaining about the springs anyway...it was the Thompson steelies I was concerned about and the number of photos taken with one fish and sometimes with more than one angler taking his turn with the same fish so he can get a photo holding one of these magnificent fish.  Just me getting something off my chest...don't need anyone to agree with me on it though.  Like Newsman said as long as you've got the right flyrod and leader you don't have to baby them.

[kellya]

Ah now i see what you mean and your probaly right. A steelie being hooked over and over and fought for long periods of time would be sure hard on them.

[4x4]

All good points. Here's mine; what ever gear you use, work the fish hard. If you do it right the fish should swim from your hands as soon as you turn it into the current. If your rod isn't strong enough to do that, then you are not using a heavy enough rod and leader.

 I catch Springs on my fly rod (fly fishing is all I do) and they swim away without all the reviving. I have been accused of being unsporting a time or two, but hey I don't play my fish to death. Anyone using anything under a 9wt lots of backbone for Springs does not impress me.

Well I guess I don't impress you but I'm not out to impress anyone.
I use 8wt outfits for Spring fishing. Salt or freshwater, big or smaller rivers and 90 % of the time I land my fish quicker than my friends that use 9 wts. I never go heavier than 12 lb test and lighter than 8 lb. I'm stuck on Maxima. So their 8 lb is like most mfg's 10 lb (min). Both my 8wt's are 10ft. My Cofi has more backbone than mt buddies 9wt 9'6" Sage RPL.
In most cases depending on the action of the fly rod a 10ft 8wt will perform as well or out perform a 9 wt. It depends if you're comparing apples to apples. Not all 8 wt are the same. Mfg's and lengths make a difference.

How aggressively you play the fish makes a difference. And when it comes to playing with the big boys the reel makes a difference. My Lampson has a very strong drag and when set properly will tire out Springs or Chums much quicker than reels with lesser drag systems.
I have yet to release a Spring that has died from being caught on my 8 wt (as far as I've seen). Proper handling has alot to do with this also.
Actually I've probably spent more time reviving Coho over my fishing career then Springs, but Spring are a hardier fish imo, especially the Whites.

[Xgolfman]

you guys will laugh but I've used 3 feet of 20 lb test before because I make my own leaders and the damn squamish chums were busting my 15 lb section....The reel IMHO as stated is what made the most difference...I crank my drag down enough that it will tire um out on a couple runs and they come right in...I take out the fly and they are gone like greased lightening....

As far as Thompson steelies...A quick picture isn't going to hurt the fish and it's sure as hell isn't just the fly guys doing it...I've seen just as many gear guy's doing the same...face it, If you lucky enough to catch one of those beautiful fish, A picture is a nice thing to look at and remember it by.... AND spey rods are becoming the gear of choice up there..(except for newman) and a 14 or 15 foot rod with tons of backbone and a good reel is going to bring those fish in as fast as anything else out there pretty much if used correctly....and honestly our chances while better then most single handers is still not near what gear guys can do....

[mastercaster]

I agree with you 100%, Xgolfman, on seeing gear fisherman doing the same thing and definitely take pictures of your fish ( a single shot will do ) but I guess what I see as the problem is taking too long to play the fish in coupled with too many photos....that IMO is a recipe for disaster.  Obviously, just one or the other isn't going to be as detrimental to the fish but it certainly isn't helping it's cause, especially if it happens to the same fish more than once that season.

When it does happen, I could almost bet that its first timers getting their first fish up there and they propably don't want to lose it but what they haven't learned yet is... the longer you're playing those fish the greater your chance is of losing it.  Also, after a while, once you trust your gear, you begin to realize just how HARD you can actually play in a fish without losing it.

[adriaticum]

You can't compare human running activity with fish being caught.
Running is a voluntary activity and it doesn't create psychological stress while a fish on the end of the line is freaked out in fear for it's life.
Try comparing a drowning man with that.
Say, would you be comfortable drowning for 20 minutes and 5?
And even though you might not drown, would you rather be in that state for 20 or for 5?