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Poll

Are you voting "yes" or "no" on STV?

I'm voting YES
- 29 (51.8%)
I'm voting NO
- 27 (48.2%)

Total Members Voted: 54


Author Topic: Are you voting "Yes" or "No" for STV??  (Read 23475 times)

marmot

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Re: Are you voting "Yes" or "No" for STV??
« Reply #60 on: May 08, 2009, 06:14:15 PM »

as a last word... there is virtually no  real world evidence that the STV will lead to more parties represented in the legislature or make it easier for smaller parties to get there. Where the STV is used party politics still exist and power tends to stay concentrated in the hands of one or 2 dominate parties. There is no solid evidence the STV will be proportional and there are true proportional systems that work in a number of successful democracies. It was never clear to me why the constituent assembly chose the STV system as opposed one of those. The scenarios that illustrate how wonderfully the STV will solve our problems are fictitious and contrived to meet it's imagined promise.

beyond that we agree to disagree - you take the low road and I will take the high road.


hahah no YOU take the low road, we'll take the high road ;) 

I guess we'll find out if it works or not soon enough :)      Of course, it probably won't pass referendum....bunch of 'fraidy cats in BC  !
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chris gadsden

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Re: Are you voting "Yes" or "No" for STV??
« Reply #61 on: May 08, 2009, 06:17:34 PM »

Not that polls are always correct but the latest released today is, NO 55% and Yes 45%, looks like it going down for the 10 count.

fishyfish711

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Re: Are you voting "Yes" or "No" for STV??
« Reply #62 on: May 08, 2009, 09:09:59 PM »

After reading all the comments I think I am going fishing.
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salmon river

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Re: Are you voting "Yes" or "No" for STV??
« Reply #63 on: May 09, 2009, 06:10:03 AM »

STV not winning favour, according to poll

Quote
It's not looking good for supporters of the single transferable vote.

Sixty per cent of B.C. voters would have to support STV for it to pass, along with the majority of voters in 60 per cent of ridings.

But a growing number don't like it. In an Angus Reid poll commissioned by CTV and The Globe and Mail, 55 per cent support the current system. Only 45 per cent of the 1,000 people questioned are in favour of STV.

Link to the rest


I am somewhat surprised the last two polls show 33% and 45% support this STV. I thought it was going to be a lot higher and even pass since it was so close to the 60% mark that is needed for it to pass last time...BVut I am still voting NO as I want full pro  rep or MMP..

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alwaysfishn

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Re: Are you voting "Yes" or "No" for STV??
« Reply #64 on: May 09, 2009, 09:38:59 PM »

Christy Clark (former Liberal minister) on STV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhccpzI4lbQ
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fishstick

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Re: Are you voting "Yes" or "No" for STV??
« Reply #65 on: May 10, 2009, 12:56:17 AM »


Yes.

....this is the very reason that many people don't support STV, or FAIRNESS in politics....they like the status quo and as long as they are on the winning end of the stick could care less how fair or proportional it is.

That may be true, but keep in mind...the very reason that many people DO support STV, or FAIRNESS in politics...is because THEY have been on the losing end of the stick, and would support anything that could give them an opportunity to wield more political clout. This is NOT the case with me.

  Although an STV system would likely make majority governments a rarity, and would possibly contribute to "muddying" the political waters in this province, I would appreciate the opportunity to be served by a government that is tempered by healthy binding debate.
For example;
I am a business owner, and think that the Liberal party (for all of it's problems), is  our best bet from an economic standpoint. (obviously that is IMO).
I am a family man and a fisherman, and think that the NDP or Green parties (for all of their problems) are our best bet from an environmental and social standpoint. (again, IMO)
Assuming a Liberal government, I would love to see the NDP, and the Green party be able to have some say on issues such as privatization of river projects, and other environmental issues.
On the flip side, should we get to a point in time where the NDP or Green party forms government, I would absolutely be in favor of having Liberal input on economic issues.

I saw the anti-STV ad tonight on the tube, and wasn't happy. Clearly, as it has been stated in this thread already, there are two "campaigns" being run. In my opinion, neither one can be considered objective, and further research needs to be done by everyone interested in this issue.

     The anti STV ad suggests that your vote can be split and go to support a candidate NOT of your choosing. This is false. In the STV system, your vote can ONLY support candidates beside which you write a preference number.  If you want, you can still vote exactly the same way that you currently vote. You just need to put a 1 beside the candidate that you would put an X beside in the current voting system, and then leave the rest blank. Your number 1 preference will be counted to support that candidate, and then, because you chose no secondary preferences, your vote will be considered exhausted.
   
The STV system will IMO affect the locality of our representation in a negative manner. Our current 81 ridings will be lumped together to form 20 new ones. There will still be 81 available seats, so each of the 20 new ridings, will elect more than one candidate. As I currently live in the lower mainland, this representation locality issue will not affect me as dramatically as it will someone living in rural northern BC. Each of the large rural ridings will have a good chance of electing all or most of their allotted representatives from the population centers, such as Prince George, leaving some (less populated) areas, as far as 350 kilometers away without effective local representation. This issue is of concern to me, and I have no defense to offer anyone who would take issue with me understanding the representation issue, yet still planning to vote YES to the STV.  I only have two options. Vote, or don't vote. All I can do is educate myself on how the current system works,...how the proposed STV system works, and cast my vote as I understand the issue to affect me and my family.

I would encourage everyone to spend at least a few hours, looking at ALL of the unbiased information that they can find,... and go out on Tuesday and vote.



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Terry Bodman

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Re: Are you voting "Yes" or "No" for STV??
« Reply #66 on: May 10, 2009, 09:23:54 AM »

I am voting "yes." There is a strong advertising campaign as to why we should not accept a new system. Sure it's confusing but I have great faith in the intelligence of British Columbians and know they will figure it out. One of the arguments of the "no" vote is that the ridings will be too large and we will lose our representation. Nonsense ! Constituency areas will be no larger than federal ridings and I don't hear complaints about that. What is unfair is the current situation where 49% of the popular vote can translate into all seats but two (remember that one !)
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clarki

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Re: Are you voting "Yes" or "No" for STV??
« Reply #67 on: May 10, 2009, 10:06:18 PM »

Yes.

Interesting pie charts in Saturday's Vancouver Sun. In the polls, more high school graduates are voting no than yes, and more of those with a university education are voting yes than no.

Not making a judgement, just interesting...
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Gooey

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Re: Are you voting "Yes" or "No" for STV??
« Reply #68 on: May 11, 2009, 09:40:58 AM »

Voting YES.

I don't know about anyone else, but doesnt the officail NO website have some pretty silly reasons for voting no:

"It is easy to understand our current system where there is one MLA to be elected and the winner is the candidate who receives the most votes".





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ion

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Re: Are you voting "Yes" or "No" for STV??
« Reply #69 on: May 11, 2009, 06:49:51 PM »

No for STV

Intelligence and wisdom are two different things (now that somebody  mentioned the university degree)

A simple question: why aren't we given the possibility, in a STV style, of choosing a voting system from
lets say, 5 possible; is the matter so complex that only that assembly was able to discerne the best for us?
Because now, we are practically asked to validate their opinion!!! We do not choose anything!!!

regards
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drivel

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Re: Are you voting "Yes" or "No" for STV??
« Reply #70 on: May 12, 2009, 08:15:04 AM »

I think I'm a Yes,

I think it is likely better for the environment and our fish.

I think?
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bcguy

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Re: Are you voting "Yes" or "No" for STV??
« Reply #71 on: May 12, 2009, 09:12:20 AM »

YES!!!! Never be afraid of trying new things if there is a chance of improvement, I find a majority of the older generation intends to vote no because change is scarey for them, they know what works (But actually doesnt, in first past the post) If STV leads to better proportional representation, THATS A GOOD THING.
It stops crooks like the Liberals and NDP from jamming things through to meet their own needs(be it big business or unions) with out having to worry about accountabiliity, do we want more accountability in our current political system???...MMMm tough call...BUT I'M thinking...YES!!!!
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Sam Salmon

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Re: Are you voting "Yes" or "No" for STV??
« Reply #72 on: May 12, 2009, 05:07:35 PM »

The stupid bastages @ STV left a Please Vote Yes message on my machine-while I was out voting!

They are so stupid/ignorant of the law the have NFI that there's no promoting allowed on voting day!

No wonder they make me puke!
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alwaysfishn

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Re: Are you voting "Yes" or "No" for STV??
« Reply #73 on: May 12, 2009, 08:14:40 PM »

The stupid bastages @ STV left a Please Vote Yes message on my machine-while I was out voting!

They are so stupid/ignorant of the law the have NFI that there's no promoting allowed on voting day!

No wonder they make me puke!

Sorry about your resulting ill health.

I believe the ban on promoting only applies to the election and that there is no ban on promoting a referendum such as STV.

I hope you get better soon.
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chris gadsden

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Re: Are you voting "Yes" or "No" for STV??
« Reply #74 on: May 13, 2009, 08:46:15 PM »

Done for good just like the Canucks Stanley Cup hopes.( For this season anyway)