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[Steelhawk]

The funding to upgrade hatchery facilities is a good move in the right direction. But unless the money is also spent in stocking more smolts for release, the money is just not going to return more fish for the rivers covered by the hatcheries.

The Cap had great coho fishery with the dam already in place in the Expo years. Nothing has changed, just much less stocking and return. Why? Just funding cut after cut. SEP was a good program when there was guilt about human degradation of salmon habitat. Now that the guilt is over, the urge to do more for the river is just not there. Sad.

FA said it right. DFO needs to have uniform standards. They should stem down on fish farming to reduce sea lice problem if they truly want to save the wild stocks. They should not allow gravel extraction for financial gain of some parties at the expense of those wild salmon habitat. Just too many double standards.

Tourists? Who care about them? But the government is more likely to spend money to impress them than us. Don't you think so? 

[Nicole]

I am mixed on this issue... There are obvious benefits with more fish, but consider the downside...

If the numbers of hatchery fish coming back was increased, then the cap could be overrun by people trying to catch them...

Look at what cates park has become during the pink run. It's a pretty scary situation with the population we have in Greater Vancouver.

The less people fishing means fewer capilano summer runs will be bonked by accident, as we see numerous reports of close calls among anglers who can tell the difference between a coho and steel, never mind someone who can't, or just does not care.

I honestly don't think the river could handle the amount of attention it would get if it was the hot spot once again...

Not to mention the downgrade in the quality of fishery brought on by questionable ethics, garbage, etc etc.

Cheers,
Nicole

[Steelhawk]

We can say that about any river - Vedder, Chehalis, Squamish, Stamps. You cannot run away from this problem with any popular urban rivers. The difference is, most of these other rivers have better runs than the Cap right now. Leave the wild & remote rivers wild and sparsely fished to protect their wild stocks but enhance local urbran rivers to get fishermen occupied. That is a more realistic and reasonable approach. Forget about land owners. They already have their nice houses to enjoy. Leave the river to the fishermen. 

So, still back to the original question - why can't DFO enhance a formerly productive fishery in the Cap like they used to do before, forcing most Vancourites to drive far (bad for the environment and fishermen's wallet), spend all day (bad for family relationship, isn't it?  ), or simply quit fishing and stop buying licenses. If DFO is interest to increase license sales, and if the government wants to see more participation in the dirve for 'fishing in the city', then enchancing the Cap, the local river of Vancouver, back to its old glorious day is a good move in the right direction. And good for the tourists & tourism too. 

[mykisscrazy]

As I said before why should DFO do the stocking on this river? Do you know the costs associated with rearing coho in a hatchery for a year?Especially since ocean survival right now is so poor from California to Northern BC (and over half have no fish farms) Just because they did in the past doesn't mean they need to continue with it. As far as I'm concerned if anyone should take on the costs of the stocking on the Cap it should be either the GVRD or set up a community program like there is on the Seymour, Chapman Cr, Kanaka Cr, etc.
Or better yet maybe set up some sort of sea ranching program with the Squamish First Nations as they harvest a good number of fish in the Lower River.
What DFO is doing in the watershed now in my opinion is all that needs to be done.

[Steelhawk]

I think you are missing the point of the debate. The point is, if the other rivers have pretty good runs of salmon due to hatchery stockings (Stamps, Vedder, even Chehalis), why shouldn't a local Vancouver river which used to have good stocking be stocked to its historic level? Costs? The other rivers stock much more and cost lots more. But they take tons of gas & time if you fish them regularly. Why not enhance this local river instead of those far out of Vancouver, especially this one is where tourists come to see the salmon, and if the 'fishing in the city' program needs a good stream (besides the lakes) to motivate people to fish close to the city, the Cap is the right one to do.

I always wonder why some in the fishing community will not want a good local fishery? Hate to see crowd? Like to get skunked? Protect the wild stocks? Well, the Cap is nothing but a hatchery river now and it should be stocked to produce a good coho fishery like its old days. Even in its hay days, it never had the crowd like the Vedder now. It has some fishermen at the top, and some at the bottom. But it has quite a long middle section for hiking fishermen to explore. Crowd should not be an issue. Besides, if the Cap is productive, it will take away the crowding in the Vedder & the Chehalis. People will still try the Valley rivers, but will be less frequent as now if they can enjoy fishing the Cap locally. My humble 2 cents.

[Steelhawk]

This link to the Cap hatchery shows the decline from the Expo years. Millions of chinook and coho were released then. They should increase stocking now, given ocean survival is also less favourable.

http://www-heb.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/facilities/capilano/fp_hist_smolt_releases_e.htm

[mykisscrazy]

If you notice I am not saying don't stock it, but I don't think it's DFO's responsibility in this instance. They have set their quota, as they only have so much in their budget. I think it should be up to the GVRD to stock the Capilano or other user groups.

The rivers you mentioned before, I believe their total production other than the Chilliwack went not just too one stream. So, yes their production was more but it went to more areas.

I started steelheading and fishing for coho on the Cap about 25 or 26 years ago. Took the bus from South Granville as the Cap, Seymour, and the Lynn were the easiest to reach by bus. I had a great time fishing on all those streams. I also remember one big issue - the first nations shopping cart weir and the amount of fish that they took. If a group starts to increase stocking and raising coho in the hatchery for a year and spending all the $$ on raising them, then just to have a good number of what  returned caught in a terminal fishery that few can take part in....I'm not sure if many would be happy with that either. Throwing more Chinook into the system is that the answer - they are not kept in a hatchery setting as long. Supposedly that is what they are doing as I have heard that we should see a good number of in the area. But then the Cap historically did not have a run of Chinook. What they use are Qualicum and Chilliwack Fall (transplanted Harrison R Whites), I'm not sure but they may have even crossed them so the Cap now has it's own run of Qualicum/Chilliwack Fall crosses.

What about the Steelhead? What should be done there? Cutthroat? Should they be stocked as well?

[VAGAbond]

Cheer up fellows.   The Pacific seems headed into a cold phase that may last 20 or 30  years with improved ocean survival.   This year is the first year for returns from the colder ocean and they may be good.  The Americans have predictred a 100% increase in Coho returns to the Columbia for this year.  See also a string started by NOG reporting lotsa fish offshore already.

http://jisao.washington.edu/pdo/

[younggun]

with the cap its another story, release of most the smolts is done above the dam because of the superior habitat that exists up there, wat they have taken into consideration but yet still dont find a solution for is the mortality rate of the smolts as they are blown through the dam, or chopped up in the turbines. Its waste of fish as many perish trying to make it back to the ocean, now if they released the smolts into the river just above the hatchery then there would be a decent survival rate, but the fish wouldn't mature as fast. The pro's and cons to a destroyed river. I was in the library the other day reading up on the cap and its history, its wild summers that would rise to dry flies, the long runs well above where the dam is now, and the BIG winter steelhead/coho it would get. There were a few photos of the past, all i can say . . . awe inspiring. the cap used to be and absolutely fantastic river, and a fairly long one aswell.

[Davis]

Like you YG, I too am fascinated with the history of our local rivers.Good for you to spend the time in a library to research the Cap,not too many young fellas would spend time in a library,shows your passion for the sport.I don't spend alot of time on the Cap as i reside on the Chilliwack River but the times i have fished the Cap in yrs gone buy for the Bluebacks, it was really enjoyable and i had a good time! I have heard as well the Ocean temps this yr are colder and the returning Salmon stocks on the west coast of the island have greatly improved this yr so far.Time will tell if we get some good returns this summer.

[younggun]

Here are some photos from the past, i've got a few more stashed away that i'll try and put up. These are a little blurry, i'm gonna attempt to fix the resolution. Those top 2 were from before the dam was put in place. If i can recall on what the book i was reading said, the river was between 12-15km long, with many wild summer runs that hit dry flies, wild steelhead like the 21lber in the photo, and large coho.

[VAGAbond]

One of my earliest memories of fishers is leaving Vancouver harbour by boat early on a misty summer morning and seeing fishermen lined up along the Capilano foreshore at low tide,  probably fishing Coho.    I don't know the date but it was probalby 1952 or 1953 before the Cleveland dam was completed.

[ejeffrey]

I wish I could have fished back in those days. Just imagine going back even further to the time before the Vancouver area was settled. I wonder if any of those first explorers packed a rod with them on their journey.