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Author Topic: Tidal Fraser River, November 1st 2009  (Read 2107 times)

Rodney

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Tidal Fraser River, November 1st 2009
« on: November 01, 2009, 10:49:32 PM »

The water clarity has been a little poorer in the last few days, probably due to all the muddy water being dumped in from the lower tributaries. That being said, it's still very reasonable for lure and flyfishing. I've been focusing more on bull trout than salmon since a week ago. The fishing has been pretty good at times, when the spots and timing are dialled in. Yesterday I managed to miss three and land two. Today I managed to miss two, lose one and land three. You can read more about it here:

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/blog/?p=150





Dr. Backlash

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Re: Tidal Fraser River, November 1st 2009
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2009, 01:18:21 PM »

Nice fish Rod.  I hooked into 3 fish yesterday and didn't land any of them.  I managed to almost land one of them (not sure if it was a Coho or Chum, or Jack Spring) but the hook popped out when the fish was right at my feet; but it was a bad hook set from the start as the fish chased my spinner right until I was about to pull it out of the water and cast again.  When will I learn to pay close attention for the entire retrieve, because many of the fish I have hooked into this season have followed the lure all the way until I'm about to pull it out of the water  ::)  Saw probably a dozen fish surface in about 2 hours of fishing.  Water clarity was still pretty decent, and the wind wasn't too strong either (unlike Saturday).  What a gorgeous day to be out on the water!
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Dave

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Re: Tidal Fraser River, November 1st 2009
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2009, 02:02:15 PM »

Hi Rod - I'm interested on your thoughts regarding those bull trout.... any idea where they are headed or coming from (Pitt?)  or are they perhaps resident?   One looked thin enough to have recently spawned but I guess I've seen more skinny bull trout than fat ones.  Neat fish.  Back when I was a pup the Chilliwack had a great run of sea run bulls, arrived around mid June.   Pretty much gone now.
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Rodney

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Re: Tidal Fraser River, November 1st 2009
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2009, 02:43:53 PM »

Dave, majority of these fish are most likely originated from the Pitt as my last batch of DNA samples to Taylor indicated that. The second origin would be the Chilliwack River watershed. Here is a quote from the paper that used these samples a few years ago.

Quote
Although our recreational fishery sample is a small one, it was obtained over a number of years and from diverse locations in the lower 20 km of the Fraser River. The microsatellite-based classification of bull trout sampled from the lower Fraser River recreational fishery produced two clear results. First, our data indicate that certain river systems apparently do not contribute fish to this fishery (e.g., most middle–north coast rivers, Phelix Creek). Second, although a diversity of populations probably contributes to the recreational fishery for bull trout, the catch appears to be dominated by fish from the Pitt River drainage. As might be expected owing to their general proximity to the lower Fraser River, tributaries such as Pitt Lake and upper Pitt River and the Chilliwack River contributed most to fish caught in the fishery. It is perhaps not surprizing that the Pitt River system is a major contributor because it is the first major bull trout-supporting watershed upstream of the sample locations in the lower Fraser River. In addition, extensive mark– recapture data (N > 200 fish) revealed considerable movement of bull trout between the upper Pitt River and many areas in the lower Fraser River (A. Stobbart, Fisheries and Oceans Canada, 38620 Bell Road, Dewdeny, BC V0M 1H0, unpublished data). Perhaps less expected, however, were the apparent contributions of some fish from more distant localities in the Fraser River drainage (e.g., upper Lillooet River and its tributaries) and outside the Fraser River (e.g., Squamish River).

The bigger one from yesterday does look like a spawned out fish but I actually think it was just skinny. Some of the spawned out fish I've caught down here are much skinnier than that, like this one from exactly one year ago. It was easily over 20 inches long but it looked and behaved like a snake.



Here's one from that same day, the length and girth ratio is much more proportional.



They usually start popping up in the Fraser estuaries in early October and most of them are skinny. We catch them throughout the winter until down migration of salmon fry begins and during this time they would put on weight.

Late November last year.


Late February this year.


Early April this year.


It'd be interesting to know where these fish come from in October (upstream or marine), if they are the same fish that stay around here in the winter months, what they feed on, where do they go after juvenile salmon out-migration finishes in spring. A spaghetti tagging program would answer most of that. :D So far I've collected DNA samples from 14 fish since early October and I have yet to re-caught a sampled fish yet, even though I've focused on the same area quite a bit so there are quite a few around. :) It'd also be interesting to know if the dominant bull trout population has an impact on the seemingly shrinking cutthroat trout population in the Lower Fraser River.

Dave

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Re: Tidal Fraser River, November 1st 2009
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2009, 03:26:19 PM »

Thanks Rod.  Interesting theory regarding BT/CT interactions.... any grad students looking for a project reading this .....?
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Rodney

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Re: Tidal Fraser River, November 1st 2009
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2009, 06:19:22 PM »

Also, just to add a few more things. The catch ratio between bull trout and cutthroat trout in this area for me has been around 10:1 (last fall around 60 bull trout and 5 cutthroat trout, this fall so far 17 bull trout and 2 cutthroat trout). Words from old timers who fish this area all report high abundance of cutthroat trout. It'd be interesting to know what factors hinder the cutthroat trout population and size growths while good sized bull trout seem to be pretty abundant. It may also simply be that I am terrible at catching cutthroat trout. ;D

Every Day

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Re: Tidal Fraser River, November 1st 2009
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2009, 07:31:08 PM »

Nice cutties.
Saw a TONNE of nice bullies (2-5 pounds) caught and killed this year in june by "trout fisherman."
At least 10 seen dead/caught in 5 or so trips out. Most I have seen in a long time.
Also saw good numbers this last Steelhead season as well.
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Jonny 5

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Re: Tidal Fraser River, November 1st 2009
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2009, 08:09:46 AM »

That big bull does looked skinny, but not in spawning colours.  What time of year was it caught?
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Dave

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Re: Tidal Fraser River, November 1st 2009
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2009, 01:08:16 PM »

Hi ED.  On what system were these bull trout killed? 
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Rodney

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Re: Tidal Fraser River, November 1st 2009
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2009, 01:18:16 PM »

He's talking about the Chilliwack/Vedder system.

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=21119.msg199006#msg199006

And ED, what cutties?? ;D

Jonny, the big bull was from November. That's pretty typical for a bull trout to not be in spawning colour anymore yet skinny after spawning. We encounter that on the Squamish River system pretty often in February and March.

Every Day

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Re: Tidal Fraser River, November 1st 2009
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2009, 03:12:27 PM »

Lol just realized I said Cutties  ::)
And yes all these fish were on the lower Chilliwack/Vedder systems.
Most were down at peach and Lickman.
It was loaded with smaller bullies this year, even hooked 2 or 3 on the fly rod, was alot of fun.
Too bad people can't read regs and Identify fish. Every time I tried telling someone as they were pulling it out, I would get the keep your mouth shut or Ill throw you in the river type response so I just gave up after a while and after phoning a few times with no response...
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mykisscrazy

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Re: Tidal Fraser River, November 1st 2009
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2009, 03:43:36 PM »

A tagging program on the Bull Trout / Dollies in the Fraser System would make a lot of sense. However, putting out the number of tags out would require a lot of angler effort, and the way the Animal Care world is going this would now be next to impossible to have "volunteer" taggers out there. I know sturgeon guides implant PIT tags on Sturgeon, but I am guessing here..but being guides put them into a different category.
For taking DNA samples, I believe a provincial collection permit required? and getting  a number of names on one of those is also becoming harder and harder. It seems right now both govt's are not too keen on "Wild" fisheries research. It really is too bad as Canada at one time was a world leader in this field.

Regarding Cutthroat in the Lower Fraser. Couple of ideas to throw out...
One it  has to do with their spawning and rearing habitat. Most of the Small streams in around the Lower Fraser ( Richmond, Delta, Surrey, Vancouver, etc) are just about gone. One just has to go out to Crescent Beach. This area at one time was Cuttie Heaven. Now it's few and far between. Hopefully with all the various Steamkeeper groups we may see this change (and not just around Crescent Beach )
Or on the bright side Nov to March Cutties have left the lower Fraser and have gone back to their tribs to spawn. This is personal experience from when I lived n the sunshine coast. Caught almost nothing (Cutties) (two to be exact) from Remembrance day to Easter in Salt Water, but did quite well in the small streams.
As well Cutties rely on sight for their feeding, Bull Trout if I remember correctly don't. So, in a way the lower Fraser is not the best place to be for a cuttie
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