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[aquapaloosa]

Just wondering what info/opinions are out there on this topic.

[buncranabop]

Its a pile of balls. Last year there werent enough now theres too many.......Yea right, definitely geniuses coming up with all the facts here. IMO there will never be enough fish spawning anywhere, the more fish the better and nature will take care of the rest, the same way it has for thousands of years... This just my opinion but I mean we have to ask what complaint will there be next year and where do stop???

[nosey]

  In 2006 the commercial fishery was making a lot of noise about spawning bed overcrowding in an attempt to get more fishing time in, the record run we are getting this year is the return from 2006, I believe that spawning bed overcrowding is mostly B.S. and hype perpetrated by those who want to kill more fish, in North America  you can pretty well hire scientists and "experts" to say anything you want them to.  The tobacco  companies had scientists that said tobacco wasn't addictive, the oil companies have scientists saying global warming is a myth, it doesn't strike me as out of line that the commercial fishermen have scientist stating that the spawning beds are overcrowded in an effort to kill more fish.

[DragonSpeed]

I'm going to answer this from another point of view.

I don't know one way or another whether "overspawning" means poor hatching, but what I do know is that the overspawning numbers add MASSIVE nutrients to the ENTIRE river system.  A fish that has been netted down at the mouth adds ZERO nutrients to the river.  A fish that couldn't spawn still adds its ENTIRE carcase to the nutrient pile.

So - we're talking about around 25 MILLION pounds of bionutrients that are NOT being added to natal streams of these fish because we're keeping around 5 million fish for consumption.  That's a lot of good nutrients for the smolts that are IN the system and the ones that will be there - no food for them.  Ask kids in Africa how well you grow without food

[IronNoggin]

Both nosey and The Dragon are BANG ON!
"Overspawning" is a term invented simply to continue to crush the fish. Really.
Letting massive numbers go may (and I mean "may") skew the run ever so slightly to a later timing. That is the ONLY potential downside.
Everything else The Dino and it's Corporate Partners are spewing in this regard is complete BS.

This from a biologist who has directly overseen "over escapement" and followed the results for cycles thereafter.

Cheers,
Nog

[DragonSpeed]

Both nosey and The Dragon are BANG ON!

Cool!

Can you tell my WIFE that I was right for once? 

[aquapaloosa]

I strongly agree about the nutrient *fertilizer*  This abundance of nutrients can only benefit fry and smolts for maybe even 2 or 3 years in a system.  But is there a limit or a case where it was known the the ph of a river was effected by too much.

I also believe that if you put 20 pairs of fish spawning on a red that they are going to dig up each others spots anyways no matter what.

[leadbelly]

So glad to have more confirmation on this.
So sick of reading this excuse trotted out by the pundits and user groups who want more openings.
I mean if you go back far enough some sockeye runs where so overcrowded lack of oxygen and physical space was the problem not just spawning room.
They seemed to thrive then

[Fish Slayer]

Way back there were 4 times the amount of sockeye returning than this years return. I guess "over spawning" is what has caused the sockeye numbers to spiral down the toilet  oh wait it was the slide at hells gate and the other disasters that humans have caused such as spills and global warming. Like others have already said the more that return the better as they provide nutrients for other fish in the system. I hope that the commercial and sporty openings get shut down right quick as it sure would be nice to have a good return in 4 years from now again and not just necessarily for more openings, but for the sockeye run to continue before extinction.

[anorden]

I don't know one way or another whether "overspawning" means poor hatching, but what I do know is that the overspawning numbers add MASSIVE nutrients to the ENTIRE river system.  A fish that has been netted down at the mouth adds ZERO nutrients to the river.  A fish that couldn't spawn still adds its ENTIRE carcase to the nutrient pile.

So - we're talking about around 25 MILLION pounds of bionutrients that are NOT being added to natal streams of these fish because we're keeping around 5 million fish for consumption.  That's a lot of good nutrients for the smolts that are IN the system and the ones that will be there - no food for them.  Ask kids in Africa how well you grow without food

Its not just the river that benefits. Dont forget the bears that eat them - and we all know where bears sh*t!

[DragonSpeed]

Its not just the river that benefits. Dont forget the bears that eat them - and we all know where bears sh*t!

Usually right on the trail that you want to walk along 

[ShaunDoe]

Whether you believe it or not, it has been suggested that too many fish arriving at the spawning grounds may have a negative impact on egg survival. Why some of you ask? Not all fish arrive at the spawning grounds at the same time, often comming in waves or more regularly in a bi-modal pattern. If too many fish are present the redds established by early run spawners can be dug up and replaced by late arrival spawners. This might seem harmless in that it is natural selection in action, however, many of the newly created redds are thought to have been created higher in the gravel bed leaving eggs prone to being flushed loose during heavy rains and inclimate weather in the winter months. This could leave both early and late spawned eggs out of luck. Again, believe what you will as this is only one of the suggestions made. As for the argument that nature will make its own way, well true... but remember some systems are nolonger left to natures devices, being highley enhanced so returning numbers could be well over historic returns. Anyways, makes for good discussion.