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[Happy Clam]

Hello fly buddies,

I got a bad experience with the braided loop. I was using a #9
mainstream with a type 6 sinking tip in Harrison river on 1st Oct.
Fished from 7:30 till 14:30 everything was fine and a lot of Pinks
were landed & released. I got a big pull on the line and hooked a
fish. It must be a Coho I guess cuz it's much powerful than the Pinks.
After about 5 minutes fighting, line tension released. Found that the
braided loop has loosen. The sinking tip and the fish have gone. The fishing
guide told that B.L. which is not reliable. I'd better to have a nail knot
with 40 pound mono than make a loop for leader or sinking tip connection.
Anybody got the same experience?

Tight lines,
Paul

[Sandman]

Hello fly buddies,

I got a bad experience with the braided loop. I was using a #9
mainstream with a type 6 sinking tip in Harrison river on 1st Oct.
Fished from 7:30 till 14:30 everything was fine and a lot of Pinks
were landed & released. I got a big pull on the line and hooked a
fish. It must be a Coho I guess cuz it's much powerful than the Pinks.
After about 5 minutes fighting, line tension released. Found that the
braided loop has loosen. The sinking tip and the fish have gone. The fishing
guide told that B.L. which is not reliable. I'd better to have a nail knot
with 40 pound mono than make a loop for leader or sinking tip connection.
Anybody got the same experience?

Tight lines,
Paul

I have used braided loops in the past and have never had one fail as you described, but then I have never hooked a spring on the fly yet.  All connectors have a potential to fail.  A nail knot can fail as well if the plastic coating cracks and slips off the line underneath.  The difference is you can inspect the nail knot easily and can retie as the end of the line deteriorates catch it before it fails.  The braided loop is harder to detect a potential failure, other than just pulling on it.  If installed correctly, a BL will usually last longer than the nail knot (which applies more stress to that plastic coating) and saves you from shortening your line over time.  That said, BLs hold water and dirt and will eventually need replacing and then you may lose more line length when you do replace it. 

[Chrome Mykiss]

Hi Paul,
I have never had a braided loop fail either. I have found them to be more reliable than the nail knot. The braided loop works like a chinese finger trap, the more tension you have the more it tightens. How did you attach the braided loop?

I never use the heat shrink tubing to attach a braided loop, I just don't trust it. I always use a bobbin with 6/0 fly tying thread and make two small wrapped sections. One section for the end of the braided loop, so it does not unwind and makes a clean transition onto the fly line. The other wrapped section is spaced about 3-4 inches from the end. The wrapped sections are usually about 1/2" wide and double layered of thread. I then brush on some super glue on to the wraps and finish it off with aquaseal. Do not coat the entire braided loop in aquaseal, just the wrapped sections. This is similar to how Ed Ward in Skagit Master attaches a braided loop, except he used nail knots and mono. This method has never failed me, even on snags or big fish.

[HARLEY]

Hi Paul,
I have never had a braided loop fail either. I have found them to be more reliable than the nail knot. The braided loop works like a chinese finger trap, the more tension you have the more it tightens. How did you attach the braided loop?

I never use the heat shrink tubing to attach a braided loop, I just don't trust it. I always use a bobbin with 6/0 fly tying thread and make two small wrapped sections. One section for the end of the braided loop, so it does not unwind and makes a clean transition onto the fly line. The other wrapped section is spaced about 3-4 inches from the end. The wrapped sections are usually about 1/2" wide and double layered of thread. I then brush on some super glue on to the wraps and finish it off with aquaseal. Do not coat the entire braided loop in aquaseal, just the wrapped sections. This is similar to how Ed Ward in Skagit Master attaches a braided loop, except he used nail knots and mono. This method has never failed me, even on snags or big fish.

I am in total agreement with this method of attaching a braided loop. My only advice to add is to be very careful with the amount of super glue that you use. The glue makes the area that you applied the glue to very stiff and it tends to make the loop hinge in the area where the glued section ends. Nail knots do have there use in certain conditions and with smaller fish. Nail knots quite simply do not work as well when you could hook a large fish. A person is asking a lot of that particular knot. In closing the type of thread that I use along with my braided loops is Kevlar.

[drivel]

Yup, I agree.  I have never had a braided mono loop fail, including on large permit and 80 pound tarpon.    I use them on my tips and also attaching the fly line to the backing  (Make sure you make the loop big enough to put the reel through it if you are doing that).

Check out this link.  It works very well.

http://www.danblanton.com/gettinglooped.html

Cheers
d

[milo]

I'll second making two nail knots with 6-8 pound test mono.
One at the base of the actual 'loop', and another close to the end of the loop's 'tube'.

Just like this:



Never failed - even with chinook on!

[Jonny 5]

I've only had one fail once... and won't ever use them again. Use a perfection loop, its better.

I would NEVER use that to attach tips or fly line to backing, that could be a real disaster IMO.

[HARLEY]

I've only had one fail once... and won't ever use them again. Use a perfection loop, its better.

I would NEVER use that to attach tips or fly line to backing, that could be a real disaster IMO.

Although the perfection loop is a very easy knot to tie and does work under shall we say normal conditions if you do any kind of testing and research on the knot you will find that this is normally a week knot which will break under stress. Also it is not possible to tie this knot to attach a leader or a tippet to a fly line unless you have already attached a length of mono to your fly line first. This is where many fishers use the nail knot which is not even close to the strenght of a properly attached braided loop. Just my thoughts. There are many knots that are many times stronger to attach a fly line to backing-my personal favorite is the albright knot-but to each his own. A person should always use what ever the person has the most faith in.

[Sandman]

Although the perfection loop is a very easy knot to tie and does work under shall we say normal conditions if you do any kind of testing and research on the knot you will find that this is normally a week knot which will break under stress. Also it is not possible to tie this knot to attach a leader or a tippet to a fly line unless you have already attached a length of mono to your fly line first. This is where many fishers use the nail knot which is not even close to the strenght of a properly attached braided loop. Just my thoughts. There are many knots that are many times stronger to attach a fly line to backing-my personal favorite is the albright knot-but to each his own. A person should always use what ever the person has the most faith in.

The nail knot is remarkably strong and distributes the stress on the line well, but the braided loop extends that over a greater length of the line so it is going to better on the line.

[HOOK]

save yourselves some money and just double the dry line back on itself and use tying thread thread to anchor it together. Use 6/0 because it strong enough to pull on without breaking but thin enough it digs into the fly line coating. I put the tag end between the two sides of the fly line before wrapping to make sure its anchored really well. I go back and forth 3/4 times and coat it once after 2nd layer of wraps and then again after i have whip finished it off.

I have NEVER had this fail on me and thats even with big my friend chinook on the other end.

I have however had many braided loops just slide right off the dry line and they were put on by the fly shop !!! I have also seen mono cut right through those braided loops.

If im anchoring mono to fly line (like a sink tip) i use an ALBRIGHT knot because its way stronger than a nail knot or perfection loop combined

[Preliator]

Hook, do you prefer the Albright Knot in any situation one would use a nail knot? It looks easier to tie in a pinch and if it's stronger, I don't see why the nail knot would ever be used.

[Sandman]

Hook, do you prefer the Albright Knot in any situation one would use a nail knot? It looks easier to tie in a pinch and if it's stronger, I don't see why the nail knot would ever be used.

The nailless nail knot is quicker and easier to tie, especially on the river, but the albright is probably less likely to fail.

[HOOK]

I will never use a nail knot after having them peel my fly line clean off leaving me with nothing beyond the line. thank god this happened with no sink tips on. the Albright knot is just as streamlined as the nail knot if tied properly and pulled tightly. the only thing with this knot is that the diameters of the lines must be with 4lbs or less otherwise they dont seem to tie nicely together however it will work. If im tying a chunk of mono to a sink tip using this knot i will use 25-30lb line because its the same thickness as the sink tip AND i dont have to worry about it snapping.

I have played around with so many knots when it comes to fly fishing that im now at the point where i have my staple knots that i use all the time. Albright, Double or Triple surgeons, Non Slip mono, Clinch or Improved Clinch (i hardly use this). I also will use a Bimini loop for my shooting line to backing but i have the fly shop do those cause I suck at tying them LOL

I use the non slip mono knot because it stays open no matter what whereas knots like the Duncan loop and even the Perfection loop can pull shut and then you get to fight them back open after you release your fish. I use this non slip for ALL my flies whether its lake or river fishing because it allows the fly to move freely which creates more action

[Happy Clam]

Hi Buddies,

Thanks for sharing your experience. I think it's just my mistake
on rigging the bl. The new bl will be reinforced by making 2 nail
knots on it.

Tight lines,
Paul

[Sandman]

I agree Hook,  I also have a few knots I rely on.  I use the nail-less nail knot most of the time to attach a leader, as I use my clear line which is a solid core, and I can tie it as quickly as I can attach an unknotted tapered leader via loop to loop.  For my floating line I will tie an albright to attach the leader at home (I use 5 or 6 wraps), but I use a 12 pound mono and it seems fine to which I tie on an 8 pound tippet (I'll go down to 5 lb in low clear water) using a bloodknot or double surgeons.  I use a trilene on the hook, but will have to try the non slip mono loop to see if it creates more action translating into more fish.  If I have to switch the leader (due to abrasion) I will use the nail-less nailknot and just check it frequently for cracks in the housing.  Have luckily not had it fail on a fish, although I have pulled it off before while tightening the knot on a worn end of the line.  The loops in my sinking tips are attached to the running line currently by way of a homemade loop wrapped in thread as you described earlier, but I have used a braided loop in the past, and as I said have not had it fail, but I have not fought a spring on it either.