Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[troutbreath]

When you first started posting on this forum I'm sure all of us responded with the sense of welcoming a new poster. While I find your posts entertaining, the humor in them is beginning to be stale.

Posting outrageous claims and throwing out your conspiracy theories without any backup links or credible support does little for your credibility. While the pro-feedlot boys may still be enjoying the humor in your posts, I notice that even they have stopped cheering your outrageous claims.

Please provide links and support for your claims or I will start calling you out on them. Oh, and posting links from fish farm news and "wildakgirl" do not qualify as credible links......    

X 2

[absolon]

Please provide links and support for your claims or I will start calling you out on them.

This should be fun. Have at 'er!

[EZ_Rolling]

Annie can you share anything new we have heard all these replies from the ANTI wild salmon crowd.

[shuswapsteve]

Please provide links and support for your claims or I will start calling you out on them. Oh, and posting links from fish farm news and "wildakgirl" do not qualify as credible links......    

I am looking forward to you calling her out, AF.

[rickjames_2]

Lol, still waiting...  looking forward to the show

[absolon]

When you first started posting on this forum I'm sure all of us responded with the sense of welcoming a new poster. While I find your posts entertaining, the humor in them is beginning to be stale.

Posting outrageous claims and throwing out your conspiracy theories without any backup links or credible support does little for your credibility. While the pro-feedlot boys may still be enjoying the humor in your posts, I notice that even they have stopped cheering your outrageous claims.

Please provide links and support for your claims or I will start calling you out on them. Oh, and posting links from fish farm news and "wildakgirl" do not qualify as credible links......    

With your new-found interest in fact-checking and good science, perhaps you might consider applying it to your own posts. For instance, your repeating of claims that PRV is responsible for disease would be a good place to start.

To date, the PRV virus has not been implicated in causing any disease. That is why it is known as an orphan virus. Studies have found the virus can be present in fish showing the clinical signs of a number of different diseases but there has been no causal linkage between the virus and any of those diseases discovered. As well, the virus displays a genetic similarity to the virus discovered in Norway but it is unknown whether the virus is a global virus endemic to many areas or if it is a local virus found only in Norway. At this point, it is equally likely that the virus is endemic to our waters and the that wild stocks passed it to the farmed stocks.

In spite of the way the information has been presented by Routledge and Morton, there is not enough known to support the claims they are making and you are assisting in propogating. The original and only study associating PRV with HSMI acknowledges that there is no identified causal mechanism but instead suggests that there is a "plausible" causal relationship and suggests that it must be confirmed by the standard mechanisms delineated in Koch's postulate in order to establish PRV as the cause of any disease. The study can be found here: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0011487
Of course, that confirmation has not been done but it hasn't stopped Morton, Routledge or yourself from behaving as if it has.

Would you call that good science?

[alwaysfishn]

With your new-found interest in fact-checking and good science, perhaps you might consider applying it to your own posts. For instance, your repeating of claims that PRV is responsible for disease would be a good place to start.

To date, the PRV virus has not been implicated in causing any disease. That is why it is known as an orphan virus. Studies have found the virus can be present in fish showing the clinical signs of a number of different diseases but there has been no causal linkage between the virus and any of those diseases discovered. As well, the virus displays a genetic similarity to the virus discovered in Norway but it is unknown whether the virus is a global virus endemic to many areas or if it is a local virus found only in Norway. At this point, it is equally likely that the virus is endemic to our waters and the that wild stocks passed it to the farmed stocks.

In spite of the way the information has been presented by Routledge and Morton, there is not enough known to support the claims they are making and you are assisting in propogating. The original and only study associating PRV with HSMI acknowledges that there is no identified causal mechanism but instead suggests that there is a "plausible" causal relationship and suggests that it must be confirmed by the standard mechanisms delineated in Koch's postulate in order to establish PRV as the cause of any disease. The study can be found here: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0011487
Of course, that confirmation has not been done but it hasn't stopped Morton, Routledge or yourself from behaving as if it has.

Would you call that good science?

Your posts all seem to be based on the premise that we shouldn't worry about the fish farm diseases because "science" hasn't yet proven that these diseases are harming the wild salmon.

I prefer a pro-active approach where we get the feedlots out of the ocean, do the science to determine whether there are long term negative effects on the wild fish and the ocean environment, and then decide whether they will be allowed.

In my opinion, that is good science.

[absolon]

That bears more resemblance to the witch trials of Salem than good science. Good science involves considering all the information including the successful history of farms in the province, not just inconclusive and speculative research.

I'd also suggest that using bad science such as that represented by the claims you are propagating in order to promote the outcomes you personally choose is about as far removed from science as it is possible to be.

[Dave]

Interesting find and good data for this expanding issue but, totally expected.  The more you look the more you find.
I would like to see the funders of this Cultus sampling expedition spend a few more bucks and go to Chilliwack Lake, a nearby sockeye lake that has a population that seems to to expanding, and sample some cutthroat from there.

Who wants to bet the same or similar virus will be found there?

[chris gadsden]

Interesting find and good data for this expanding issue but, totally expected.  The more you look the more you find.
I would like to see the funders of this Cultus sampling expedition spend a few more bucks and go to Chilliwack Lake, a nearby sockeye lake that has a population that seems to to expanding, and sample some cutthroat from there.

Who wants to bet the same or similar virus will be found there?

Can you get us some from the F/N fishery that started in the Chilliwack today as I am too far away to get some for testing.

[Dave]

Can you get us some from the F/N fishery that started in the Chilliwack today as I am too far away to get some for testing.

Chris, the point is this: Routledge, Orr, Kribenge, and whoever else was involved in this should have designed this program properly and sampled a control site and nearby Chilliwack Lake is the perfect test ...  That's called science.

I understand the Fraser Valley Salmon Society angled the samples at Cultus, for a worthy cause, but I am happy they distanced themselves from the press release.

[chris gadsden]

Chris, the point is this: Routledge, Orr, Kribenge, and whoever else was involved in this should have designed this program properly and sampled a control site and nearby Chilliwack Lake is the perfect test ...  That's called science.

I understand the Fraser Valley Salmon Society angled the samples at Cultus, for a worthy cause, but I am happy they distanced themselves from the press release.

Good thing I was not involved.

[absolon]

Chris, the point is this: Routledge, Orr, Kribenge, and whoever else was involved in this should have designed this program properly and sampled a control site and nearby Chilliwack Lake is the perfect test ...  That's called science.

I understand the Fraser Valley Salmon Society angled the samples at Cultus, for a worthy cause, but I am happy they distanced themselves from the press release.

A small point, but Kibenge is just a lab for hire with an overhead to cover. He has no involvement with anything but the screening. After his past dealings with Morton, he appears to have taken to including disclaimers on the results specifically to distance himself from her pronouncements as he did with the PRV/HSMI tests and as he quite likely has done on Morton's latest results for which she has declined to produce the report.