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Author Topic: Some thoughts on last weekend's cleanup  (Read 8232 times)

Rodney

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Some thoughts on last weekend's cleanup
« on: July 15, 2004, 01:02:04 AM »

I haven't had a chance to type this up until now.

Last Saturday's cleanup was well attended once again, I would like to thank all the members on this board who took the time to come out. We had around 80 volunteers in total, 15 or so were FWR members. These numbers lately are fantastic, last year we would be happy if we got 40 to 50 people! It shows that many of you are as concerned as those who started the cleanup coalition and are determined to make a difference.

The program continues to progress at a steady pace. Adopt-a-River program for the mid and upper river is coming together nicely and should be in effect by the end of this year.

Roscoe, myself, Nina and Zazia spent around two hours cleaning the north side of the section just below Tamihi Bridge. The river bank was in a pretty good shape, I think finally most anglers are pretty informed now regarding disposing fishing line and lead. What really made us disappointed was what we saw at the "campsites". We approached one campsite and were simply speechless. Bags of garbage were piled to waist high by one tent. Bottles, cans were littered all over the place. A group of guys stood by the bank and looked on curiously at their own camp while Roscoe took photos around it. A bit further down the river, another huge pile of trash was left by previous campers. A brief talk with this couple who were camping by the boys and told us how they kept their camp cleaned unlike some. They were not pleased, but at the same time offered no help when we told them what we were going to do. That's fine, after all, they were there to camp, not to clean.

We started to clean up this huge pile furthest away from all campers, so it didn't seem like we were intruding. The campers looked on, whether they were embarrassed, angry, or found it ironic or humorous, I don't really know. What I did not understand was, what sort of enjoyment does one get out of when he or she camps in an environment that I would pretty much describe as a landfill. And, if he or she enjoys the place so much, and loves it, wouldn't it better to clean up the leftover crap? And I would really like to dig into these people's mind and find out just exactly who they think will be cleaning all that up.

And we're not even talking about little kids here, we are talking about grownups, people over the age of 20.

There isn't a clear solution to this. Enforcement is hard, prosecution is even harder. The accused can easily said those are not his or her garbage, unless you have it on video while they were being dumped. I had the choice of heading over to talk some sense into these people, but chose not to as you never know who you are dealing with. Trying to talk sense into these people is most likely trying to get a cow to play the piano. ::)

Dave Lamson, from the Chilliwack River Action Committee, stopped by while we were doing the cleanup. He and I walked around the campsite and discussed what really can be done. He suggested a law that prohibits people from camping at a site that is already littered should be passed. This way you are responsible for whatever is on your site.

Chris and myself and the rest of the directors will continue to dig into options as we expand the program, but new ideas are constantly needed and they need to come from you, the users of the resource. The more you can tell us, the better the program can be. Let's hear it!

Hiker

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Re:Some thoughts on last weekend's cleanup
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2004, 01:22:38 AM »

Now you know how I felt on last kleen up when I got that same section. I was with my gf and it took us forever to clean the mess.
Why City of Chilliwack or whoever is responsible for that piece of land doesn't provide more garbage containers, designated camping sites, and gets the private company to deal with cleaning, charging people for camping, and giving/collecting fines (with help of RCMP if needed). That way they could have a private company accountable if area is dirty, they would for sure issue fines/ report to people because they do not want to spend money and time cleaning. This way enforcing would be granted, people couldn't just camp anywhere, area would be cleaner, ... This would benefit kids too, as they would be most likely employed for a low payed job of river/camp keeper. It even doesn't have to be a private company - it could be a student association of some kind where students could get job through them. As long as you can keep them accountable. Money for a company/association would come from fees,fines,recycling of garbage and I would think city would probably have to help them out as well.
Do not know if this can work out easily but it would make my life better when going fishing, and one reason I do not camp at Vedder is that there is so much of garbage and drank people all over that I do not want to be around at night - I guess that way they would have more people visiting Chilliwack too.
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Sam Salmon

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Re:Some thoughts on last weekend's cleanup
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2004, 07:28:15 AM »


What I did not understand was, what sort of enjoyment does one get out of when he or she camps in an environment that I would pretty much describe as a landfill. And, if he or she enjoys the place so much, and loves it, wouldn't it better to clean up the leftover crap? And I would really like to dig into these people's mind and find out just exactly who they think will be cleaning all that up.

And we're not even talking about little kids here, we are talking about grownups, people over the age of 20.

It's not a nice thing to say Rod but those people are themselves trash-rural BC is full of them.
They are poor people who've always lived surrounded by the worst of human behaviour and just have absolutely no idea how to behave in a civilised manner.
With better schooling/nutrition some progress can be made but it will take generations to drag people like that out of the muck they wallow in.
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otto

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Re:Some thoughts on last weekend's cleanup
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2004, 11:32:41 AM »

i totally agree Sam Salmon, however i have also seen very wealthy people with their fancy trucks and BBQs and 1000 buck sleeping pads, bags etc utterly devastate a campground, leaving halfburned tables, garbage, wine/beer litter etc.....both sides of society are wrecking the woods........... >:(
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Rodney

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Re:Some thoughts on last weekend's cleanup
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2004, 01:34:33 PM »

Re: Sam's post

Poverty and lack of education are definitely major factors. You see guys down there dumping truckloads of crap because they do not want to pay the fee at the dumpsite. If finance is an issue, the last thing on anyone's mind would be the environment.

Education is definitely needed. Dynamite Kid and I were discussing yesterday while fishing, we need to get through to the younger kids at school. It's ok to have fun, but have fun responsibly. I think once we have the entire adopt a river program set up, that maybe the next step - outreach programs.

Re: Hiker's suggestion

The biggest factor is once again money. Having such programs set up seems to be costly for the city or the regional district. The part about the garbage cans, that have been tried, and it doesn't work. Garbage breeds garbage. If a garbage can is set up somewhere, people bring out all kinds of crap to dump beside it because they expect someone will be picking those up.

Thanks guys, good info.

Hiker

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Re:Some thoughts on last weekend's cleanup
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2004, 12:55:23 AM »

I agree with everything said. People do need area to go camping without paying any fees, specially if you have no money.
The problem in this case is proximity of Vancouver, Chilliwack isn't small any more, and Vedder is a huge area beautifull and just awating you to come and enjoy in fishing/camping/biking/... At the same time it is "nobody's" land. - What a perfect place to do anything you want :) - some people take it directly. Whenever there is something that really doesn't belong to anybody but to everybody, there is a problem, as there is no responsibility. That is why I was suggesting to have somebody to clean it up, and held it responsible/accountable, while provide them with opportunity to make some money as well. I know it does costs though. The other option would be to make entire area a park (of any kind) - I am not sure what regulations would apply, but I would think it would be tighter control/fines/...
Setting up garbage cans without having a service which will empty them will not do any good, so if city/district can not afford it, they shouldn't put them out there, but of they could get them to be emptied twice/once a week, I think they would help, as at least garbage would be concetrated. City would benefit from it in long run, as I think cleaner area would attract more people/or make them come again. Everybody spends some money in Chilliwack - if nothing else than for gas. I just think that without puting some money down, you can not make any. Do not know how much money  they have but they should do something about this issue. Closing river would be the worst and I do not think they will be doing it.
It would be usefull to make programs/visits in schools to teach kids about this issue. I think a lot of garbage is left by people who live in area.
Sorry for runt :)
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fishersak

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Re:Some thoughts on last weekend's cleanup
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2004, 01:00:50 AM »



Rod, I can tell you that as a teacher of adolescents I am frequently appauled by the awareness that they have about the environment and their lack of interest in it.  Many kids I deal with think nothing of dropping waste just wherever they are at the time with the "someone else will pick it up" attitude.  If kids at 16 & 17 are like this I am not sure that they will be much wiser at 20+.  In many ways we are raising a generation of people who simply cannot get beyond the "me" culture.  Don't get me wrong, there are many future good citizens out there, it just seems to me that the number of students I teach that have no concept of their environmental impact seems to be rising.  We used to teach this stuff in elementary school science, it is often overlooked now as it does not help with performance on standarized testing.... :'(
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Fish Assassin

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Re:Some thoughts on last weekend's cleanup
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2004, 11:06:58 AM »

My opinion is that it starts at home with the parents.
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Rodney

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Re:Some thoughts on last weekend's cleanup
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2004, 12:23:30 PM »

Hiker's post:

The point about the area being a public, free resource hit it right now. Because it's public, no one would want to take up the responsibility when something goes wrong. On the other hand, if this was your backyard, it would be cleaned up within minutes.

One fortunate thing about this place is that, it's all free! Outdoor activities are cheap here. A simple solution to these garbage problems would be to privatize the resource, that would really get things going. But, I doubt any of you would want to pay a day use fee to fish a particular section of the Vedder everytime. That's why we're working very hard on this, and urging anglers to come out whenever there is a cleanup.

Regarding the garbage cans, they would have to be picked up everyday. You have no idea how fast the pile gorws, it's like magic. ;D You go down there in the morning, nothing there, but afternoon, poof! Ten bags.

Fishersak's post:

The "me" culture is also a good point. The respect is just not there anymore. There definitely is a need to deliver the message to the kids through school, family and media.

Ok it's Saturday, why am I ranting about this? ::)

chris gadsden

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Re:Some thoughts on last weekend's cleanup
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2004, 12:46:19 PM »

One way we can beat this is to have lots of volunteers on our 4 scheduled cleanups. ;D

Nothing makes campers take notice when swarmps of cleanup crews are cleaning up the area's.  When Lew and I was out last Sunday the 2 camps we saw were very clean and the campers were very appreciative of our efforts.

Mark the last Sunday in Sepember on your calenders for our next cleanup on BC RIvers Day, we need you there.

Your help WILL make a difference.

Rodney

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Re:Some thoughts on last weekend's cleanup
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2004, 06:59:41 PM »