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What regulation changes are needed to protect early Stuart sockeye salmon?

Complete recreational salmon fishing closure
Leader restriction
Barfishing only
No changes needed

Author Topic: Fraser River regulations and early Stuart sockeye salmon  (Read 13531 times)

chris gadsden

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Re: Fraser River regulations and early Stuart sockeye salmon
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2005, 03:12:49 PM »

[Sad thing is, as someone mentioned, is that selective angling like bar fishing is going to suffer. In fairness though, I guess there is a very very low % impact even from bar fishing even though my scorecard for sockeye hooked on the bar rod is about an estimated 1 sockeye in 20 yrs of bar fishing.

Quote
That was in 1989 and it was captured on video. ;D ;D

A little note on fishing selectively. I was driving out to Island 22 this am to see if the river is clearing up to start bar fishing and just before turning onto Cartmell Road I spot this piece of material on the side of the road with a corkie and a wool tie on it. I pull over and it is exactly that. It must have blown out of a boat on the way to Island 22. Now get this, it measures the lenght of the Leaf Mobile actually it is 16 feet long with a 3/0 barbless hook on about 20 pound test leader. ??? :( :o No I am not going to return it. Will cut into lenghts to use from my bar weight to the spreader bar.

On the bright side river starting to shape up and the Master told me a chap hits some springs on the good old bar gear yesterday. The time has finally come to do some bar fishing. Be ready FA and DS for the trip in the Leaf Craft. ;D ;D

Fish Assassin

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Re: Fraser River regulations and early Stuart sockeye salmon
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2005, 03:15:33 PM »

Chris, I believe that leader is mine. Can I have it back please ?
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Rodney

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Re: Fraser River regulations and early Stuart sockeye salmon
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2005, 03:17:55 PM »

I doubt you'll even get your corkie back, he's probably using it as his strike indicator this weekend. :D

Rodney

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Re: Fraser River regulations and early Stuart sockeye salmon
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2005, 06:16:32 PM »

Creel survey final results of May can now be found on this page.

Old Black Dog

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Re: Fraser River regulations and early Stuart sockeye salmon
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2005, 07:13:31 PM »

I note how efficient sports fishermen are. All the talk about flossing and how effective it is becomes questionable.
122.5 hours per fish!
« Last Edit: July 15, 2005, 07:33:06 PM by Old Black Dog »
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chris gadsden

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Re: Fraser River regulations and early Stuart sockeye salmon
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2005, 09:59:53 PM »

I note how efficient sports fishermen are. All the talk about flossing and how effective it is becomes questionable.
122.5 hours per fish!
As you will see the results are all estimated and when you see under fish released the total is 0.

I personally do not put that much faith at all in any numbers FOC put out. They are always estimated and of course there is no survey pepole there all the time and at all landing stations.

I personally landed 5 springs, released one of them and also kept a jack. I was not surveyed once but then I was outside the survey area. I most likely fished around a hundred hours for the 7 fish I landed. so my average is about 14 hours per fish.

FISHIN MAGICIAN

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Re: Fraser River regulations and early Stuart sockeye salmon
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2005, 10:21:15 PM »

What the survey doesn't indicate is how many fish are being poached as well by dishonest people.

For example, I remember taking a statistics class..and that class...well...there was this question...and since no one would ever answer the question when asked....as is this similar scenario with the unsupervised miles of river out there, the question is....how many people are poaching salmon that do not account for the numbers out there?

Interesting result I bet that a few people would be surprised to hear.

Sooo..what I am saying is..they need to shut the rivef down, impose severe gear restrictions at the least--as for incidental catches not meaning much so state a lot of sporties..think again as I relate this scenario....

For the record, I can remember fishing last August in the chuck and I had six rods out, fishing for coho and springs, and hooking a triple header of Sockeye...on gear totally not intended to fish for sockeye. Concievably, although remote, I could have gill hooked or gullet hooked one or more of those Sockeye which were closed.

If memory serves me correctly, the Sockeye all hit on different items, and since fishing was slow that day, I was going through the tackle box trying different lures left right and center hoping to find the right colours, as there were lots of fish around but they just weren't biting.

I remember getting a triple header hook up of Sockeye on Herring, a Coyote Spoons with Green in it, and a Bluish coloured hootchie--all within seconds of course, and each one we released at the side of the boat. 2 other rods actually went off at that time too..but didn't stick.

Incidental catches  when we are talking about Cultus and like stocks that are endangered are significant---for all I know, all three of those fish could have been Cultus stock fish.

I remember my fishing mate stating "there are lots of people that would have killed those fish" and I remember a few surrounding boats asking "What the heck was going on?..to which I replied "Sockeye" and I got dirty looks from them, and people shaking their heads in disbelief because I released every last one of them.

What happened was entirely unusual, but then again..not impossible. Thus, if salmon fishing is to cease, us sporties need to be the leaders, as after all, we are doing this for SPORT and not MEAT RIGHT?, and lay our rods down.

Personally, I take more pleasure in releasing fish that I catch, and I ask a few people to try it now and then, and watch the eyes pop out of the surrounding anglers heads.

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Rodney

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Re: Fraser River regulations and early Stuart sockeye salmon
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2005, 12:59:55 AM »

Statistics will always have a % of error, no doubt about that.

FM, your assumption that there are an overwhelming number of dishonest people who would keep fish that are required to be released unlike you is a major flaw of your hypothesis. It's also irrelevant to be making comparisons between two totally different fisheries, especially when you're using what happened during one instance as an example to generalize other fishermen's actions.

On a side note, not everyone who participates in sportfishing is doing it purely for the sport < :o >. There are many objectives in sportfishing, and they vary between individuals. These objectives include to relax, to socialize, to practice casting, to seek and release the largest catch in a lifetime, to view the scenary, to bond with partners, and to HARVEST. The objectives change as an angler evolves. Most people who start out are there hoping to catch a fish to eat. When an angler gradually develops better skills, his or her objectives change. After many years of fishing, taking a fish home may not be a goal, but a bonus. Does that make those newcomers who intend to go out and hunt for a fish to take home terrible? I certainly hope not! As long as people are obeying the regulations, conducting themselves with respects on the waters, we should treat them with respect even if we "know better" or "are not out here for the meat". Why is there a need to criticize someone when he or she harvests a fish legally? If people feel the regulations are not justified, take that message to those who manage the fisheries.

Now, back to the May creel survey result. The study area was bounded by the outlet of the Sumas River (Chilliwack, B.C.) and the outlet of the Coquihalla River (Hope, B.C.). 60% of total May fishing effort were concentrated at outlet of Sumas River and Harrison River. Two surveyors were stationed at Island 22, interviewing anglers throughout the day. At the end of the day, the surveyors travelled down to Grassy Bar and interviewed every angler between Island 22 and Grassy Bar. Overflights for rod counts were also conducted twice per week (once during weekdays, once on the weekend). From the data collected, HPUE (harvest-per-unit-effort) and RPUE (release-per-unit-effort) were then determined from equations derived from past creel survey studies. These are calculated estimates.

Is it possible that some anglers who were interviewed did not report their release sockeye salmon? Possibly. Is it possible that all anglers out there would also operate the same way? Highly unlikely. If that's the case, why were there no released sockeye salmon reported? To pinpoint the reason, one needs to know what sockeye runs were present in the studied area and how many fish were estimated passing through during May. Not a whole lot according to the Albion test fishery, which produced a total of zero sockeye salmon in the month of May. The point is, HPUE indicates that the number of fish the sportfishing sector intercepts is extremely low in relation to the number of rod hours. On the other hand, HPUE is much higher in the FN driftnet fishery, therefore only a limited number of openings is granted.

Is the sportfishing sector paying attention to DFO's request for a selective fishery? You bet. The answer lies in the comparison between rod days, number of harvested fish and HPUE in 2004 and 2005. Let's take a look at those numbers:

In May 2004, estimated angler effort was 24,109 hours, estimated number of chinook harvested was 174.
In May 2005, estimated angler effort was 12,496 hours, estimated number of chinook harvested was 102.

In June 2004, estimated angler effort was 26,237 hours, estimated number of chinook harvested was 1,035.
In June 2005, estimated angler effort was 14,545 hours, estimated number of chinook harvested was 186.

From the numbers given above, you'll see number of angler effort had dropped by almost 50% in May and June. Why? To some anglers, fishing selectively means don't fish at all. Of course you will still find bottom bouncers out there targeting chinook. A request means people are allowed to choose their actions voluntarily. If you wish to see 0% of bottom bouncers out there fishing, then you need to see a demand from DFO, not a request.

Am I pro-flossing? Absolutely not. As mentioned in numerous posts in the past, I've never participated in it and never will because I feel that I probably wouldn't get the same enjoyment out of it like those who choose to. The point that I am trying to make is, this is a legal fishery after all because the Department of Fisheries and Oceans feels the sportfishing sector does not pose a threat to the stocks. Keep in mind, in the fisheries notice, it reads "Anglers are requested to use selective fishing methods when fishing for Chinook." The notice did not request anglers to only participate in barfishing, lure fishing, or float fishing. The term "selective fishing methods" can be interpreted differently by different anglers. Selectively fishing method maybe defined as barfishing only to some, it maybe defined as shortened leader for another. Some may also and have chosen to bottom bounce with a longer leader because based on their experiences/skills, they feel that they will be able to target chinook salmon effectively and minimize the chance of intercepting a sockeye salmon at the same time. To me, selectively fishing method means no fishing until now, because water clarity has not been ideal for the methods that I wish to participate in. If people are out there fishing legally and following the guidelines published by the governing body that regulates them, what gives people the right to label them as criminals or poachers?

The health of our fish stocks need to be determined scientifically, not whether the fish is caught because it eats a hook or not. If there are concerns on the direction where the sportfishing sector is going towards, join an active group, educate and be educated, and voice your concerns to those who can actually make a difference. By belittling those who share the resource with you simply because they do not have the same values and point of views when it comes to fishing, it will ultimately backfire in the end.

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Re: Fraser River regulations and early Stuart sockeye salmon
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2005, 07:18:47 AM »

Rod, well put!
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FISHIN MAGICIAN

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Re: Fraser River regulations and early Stuart sockeye salmon
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2005, 09:55:03 AM »

Point taken Rod, but, when I read reports in the Vancouver Sun about FN nets out there wihen they shouldn't be, and I go out there and see the river banks lined with 5000 anglers,  you can't help but wonder.

Interesting point about what you said about sportsfishing, and meat fishing. In that event, they should come up with a meat fishing license, because that is EXACTLY what people are doing.

As for the number of fish that are being poached, as with the statistics example I was quoting, the majority don't poach, but I bet there are poachers who make up a statistically significant number of fish harvested when there are fish around...

At any rate, when I see anywhere from 1000 to 10000 people on the rivers on a given day of fishing depending on what are around, you can't help but wonder sometimes.



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