Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Prettyfly]

It would be far better to let people take two sockeye and go home then to let them sit there all day hooking fish, making them bleed, dragging them up on shore and kicking back into the river. I know for sure that at very least two of the fish I released each of those day will not make it to the spawning grounds.

..... from another post

Guys we pay to fish, they should let us fish if the fish are there! It is a meat fishery so we should accept that wether we bounce, floss etc

Thats from a thread in the anglingbc forum. These are your fellow sport fishermen talking freely. Trying to do the research on fishing techniques and I find all of this.

It seems flossing is a 'legal' poaching technique taught even by guides. It is my understanding that flossing is snagging. Ths poster mentioned that this was common practice among the 50 or so sport fisherpersons along that stretch.

I'm just at a loss when thinking about the flack native fishers get when so called 'sport fishers' and professional guides are virtually doing the same thing -fishing illegally.

Why are these guides (one mentioned was T&A on the fraser) being condoned while native fishers are so harshly critizised?

[Big Steel]

PLease, not another flossing/snagging thread!!!  These never end well!!

[Sterling C]

You'd probably be better off just typing in flossing on a forum search and see what you come up with. Everything that could possibly be said reguaring this issue has been said many times over.

[BIG T]

Too early for this subject.May be later in the summer,like august

[leaping steely]

This horse has been beat a million times before.

[newsman]

Guiding is about making money period. If your clients don't  get fish, they don't come back or send their freinds. So what do you expect?

[Prettyfly]

I really think P/F is talking about what has been said in the " Criticail year for sport fishing right's" thread and is looking for ammo.

I am not looking for ammo but thanks for the feeble attempt at reading my mind.

I'm just shocked. I don't understand how people can fight so bitterly but seemingly turn blind eyes towards their own. And I'm not talking about whether some of you consider flossing AKA snagging legal or not but the fact that a community - no matter what it's binding force, be it race, religion or in this case sport, will turn a blind eye whilst pointing fingers.

In reference to the critical year post - I have petitioned my community to step forward, there were loads of posts referenced when I did a search on FWR and came across the Cheam court case last summer. I had heard of only the end result last summer and hadn't fully realized the full impact it may have had. Regardless I don't care to see anyone get screwed and the the acts of some of the lower mainland bands is only reflecting AND hurting the rest of us. Some sportfishermen are right racists and need a punch in the face but not all.

And instead of trying to start 'civil war' maybe we should be setting our own straight before pointing fingers. And if you must, keep banging your heads against a wall you aren't going to break. You have to accept aboriginal rights - because of your forefathers attempt at genocide, and blatant theft, this is the price you must pay because the government must abide by the Human Rights commission.

And though some may see it as short lived, education is key to every battle. That's why the generals rarely go into battle.  As long as there is a long standing injustice, conflict is going to occure. Are there no scholars in sport fisherpersons to realize the key is not violence, be it physical or vocal but education?

Some people are so hell bent on proving others wrong, bent on fighting tooth and nail to protect what is theirs. Tooth and nail until someone is broken.

We don't need to resort to that. It just takes people understanding people. And everyone needs to try.

[Rodney]

Pretty Fly, if it helps, the Fraser Valley fisheries dialogue is still ongoing between the Upper Fraser River Sportfishing Advisory Committee and the Fraser Valley First Nations (mainly the Chehalis, Skwah, Yale. Cheam is currently not participating). I'm one of the participants in these dialogue sessions.

I wasn't planning to get into this discussion as it takes way too much time to cover the details of these issues if I start posting, my time is not very available right now. I'm glad you are actively posting as it is refreshing to have the point of views from the other side. Keep in mind this is a sportfishing discussion forum, so generally the readership and participants are here because they want to sportfish and look for opportunities to sportfishing. Therefore the views can obviously be biased and should never be taken as mission statements that represent the entire sportfishing community.

Just to quickly summarize up some of the items that I wish to point out:

Not all anglers turn away from the existance of problems in the Fraser River sockeye fishery and its implications on the overall resource in BC.

Not all, including me, wish to see the rights of fishing and fish sales of First Nations be taken away.

I wish to see more transparency in the management of the FN, sport and commercial fishery by DFO.

I wish to see better escapement estimates by having a third party that monitors and counts the number of fish harvested in all sectors. We harvest one stock, yet we manage it independently as two different stocks at times. Each sector blames the other on the absence of conservation measures. Both should develop a uniform management (not talking about the number of fish taken. People should face it, First Nations have priority on stock harvest and are entitled to a certain number of fish) so information is better shared.

I wish to see both the sportfishing sector and First Nations work together cooperatively in projects that can be beneficial to both. After all, we are utilizing the same resource and we ought to ensure its sustainability instead of fighting for the last piece of it as you brought up earlier.

[Prettyfly]

I feel the need to highlight my words for Bill, he seems to skim while reading and then bases his judgements inaccurately

**************

I am not looking for ammo but thanks for the feeble attempt at reading my mind.

I'm just shocked. I don't understand how people can fight so bitterly but seemingly turn blind eyes towards their own. And I'm not talking about whether some of you consider flossing AKA snagging legal or not but the fact that a community - no matter what it's binding force, be it race, religion or in this case sport, will turn a blind eye whilst pointing fingers.

In reference to the critical year post - I have petitioned my community to step forward, there were loads of posts referenced when I did a search on FWR and came across the Cheam court case last summer. I had heard of only the end result last summer and hadn't fully realized the full impact it may have had. Regardless I don't care to see anyone get screwed and the the acts of some of the lower mainland bands is only reflecting AND hurting the rest of us. Some sportfishermen are right racists and need a punch in the face but not all.

And instead of trying to start 'civil war' maybe we should (Bill this is an ALL inclusive statement) be setting our own straight before pointing fingers. And if you must, keep banging your heads against a wall you aren't going to break. You have to accept aboriginal rights - because of your forefathers attempt at genocide, and blatant theft, this is the price you must pay because the government must abide by the Human Rights commission.

And though some may see it as short lived, education is key to every battle. That's why the generals rarely go into battle.  As long as there is a long standing injustice, conflict is going to occure. Are there no scholars in sport fisherpersons to realize the key is not violence, be it physical or vocal but education?

Some people are so hell bent on proving others wrong, bent on fighting tooth and nail to protect what is theirs. Tooth and nail until someone is broken.

We don't need to resort to that. It just takes people understanding people. And everyone needs to try.

****

Please read it again Bill and tell me where I assumed anything? I didn't even type the words pinks or sockeye in my last post. Your animosity for first nation people is obvious but to resort to hateful name calling of certain fish species?

[Big Steel]

I think that everyone need to take a deep breath and think about all the good things that we have in front of us!!!!     That includes all the fishing that is available and will be available this year and for years to come!!!  Thanks to people who do care and go about protecting EVERYONES resource that we all use.  Hats off to those like Chris, Rod and many others the take their precious time to do what they can.
 Prettyfly, you keep saying that things will never get done if people just keep bickering back and forth.  If you believe this, then what are you doing.  At somepoint someone just has to be the bigger person and walk away!!!  I believe that you are trying to do some good, but how are people going to take you if all they see is you coming back at people, when you could just ignore it and move on!!!  I would respect the person that just moved on a lot more!!
  Bill, I don't believe that this is doing any good, I don't know you, so it wouldn't be right of me to say much, so how about just tone it down a bit and I think that you will be better received as well. It is obvious you care, but is stating the things you did, in that way, doing any good?
 

[Prettyfly]

You're right.

I was being defensive as this was the second incident of someone twisting words.

Just a little frustrating.

[TrophyHunter]

It would be far better to let people take two sockeye and go home then to let them sit there all day hooking fish, making them bleed, dragging them up on shore and kicking back into the river. I know for sure that at very least two of the fish I released each of those day will not make it to the spawning grounds.

..... from another post

Guys we pay to fish, they should let us fish if the fish are there! It is a meat fishery so we should accept that wether we bounce, floss etc

Thats from a thread in the anglingbc forum. These are your fellow sport fishermen talking freely. Trying to do the research on fishing techniques and I find all of this.

It seems flossing is a 'legal' poaching technique taught even by guides. It is my understanding that flossing is snagging. Ths poster mentioned that this was common practice among the 50 or so sport fisherpersons along that stretch.

I'm just at a loss when thinking about the flack native fishers get when so called 'sport fishers' and professional guides are virtually doing the same thing -fishing illegally.

Why are these guides (one mentioned was T&A on the fraser) being condoned while native fishers are so harshly critizised?

 This topic has been beaten up and and down and backwards a hundred times.....  in the end it is always the same conclusion...  Flossing for salmon on the Fraser river and for that matter any river is at this point a legal way to fish as long as you are using a single barbless hook!!!!!!  thats it!!! it aint illegal and until it is people are going to continue to fish this way... you are comparing to something that is illegal.. it is illegal for natives to catch and sell their fish.... so lets have a look at what we have discovered


Natives catching salmon for the reason of sale and profit to the general public  =    ILLEGAL

Sports fishermen flossing for slamon with a single barbless hook  =  LEGAL

until the laws are changed that is how it is.

[Ribwart]

I think it might also be prudent to add that, although a "legal" technique, most sportfishermen, at least the ones I know or have spoken with, regrard "flossing" as an unsportsmanlike method, I would even go so far as to presume many of us have a great deal of disdain for its use, and most of the time, make an effort to inform the offending "fisherman" that it is NOT the proper way to sportfish...
There is no excuse for flossing, and it is a recurring seasonal problem that has yet to be solved...

Sorry, let me ammend that somewhat, if someone is not interested in sportfishing for the pure sport of it, but more in the harvest of fish for eating, etc...and they are fishing for sockeye, then flossing would be the most proficient manner in which to hook multiple fish in relatively short periods of time. I myself did fish for sockeye some years ago, I flossed, and found a great deal of success. I no longer use this technique, nor do I fish for sockeye anymore, and I do so because it was a choice that was made as my understanding and appreciation for the sport evolved over the years. So I should not condemn flossing, as I myself have done it. I find now that the challenge of enticing the fish to bite your hook of its own volition, rather than "biting the fish with your hook" when it doesn't know what's coming, is far more rewarding to me... so I guess the worst non smokers are ex smokers right? My apologies for my earlier intolerant statement, we can all be converted!

[TrophyHunter]

I think it might also be prudent to add that, although a "legal" technique, most sportfishermen, at least the ones I know or have spoken with, regrard "flossing" as an unsportsmanlike method, I would even go so far as to presume many of us have a great deal of disdain for its use, and most of the time, make an effort to inform the offending "fisherman" that it is NOT the proper way to sportfish...
There is no excuse for flossing, and it is a recurring seasonal problem that has yet to be solved...

my personal opinion is that in a fishery such as Sockeye which is known as a meat fishery flossing is ok..... when I see it on the Vedder or any other small system is pisses me off... when I see guys ripping their lines at the end of every drift it pisses me off and I will let them know.... but as I said before until they make flossing an illegal way of harvesting fish people will continue to fish this way... I don't think that the leader length will change anything.. I have seen people fishing with only 3-4 foot leader and still get a fish on every second drift.....

I used to floss for salmon... some people on this site introduced me to Bar Fishing and now that is my preffered way to fish the Fraser....   

[Rodney]

Hoping to get into a 10 footer this year.

Wow, big apetite. It may very well be a good season as signs of eulachons have been reported in the Fraser Valley (unusually early, but an opening is not expected as mentioned in another thread).


Just to point out a couple of things again based on what I've read in a couple of threads recently. Posters' opinions do not represent the view of this website. Discussion forum is utilized by anyone who has a computer so disagreement is a common occurance. Some people (mostly who I've talked to in person) tend to mistaken that Fishing with Rod is an organization. It's not. It does not have a mission statement. It is not pro or anti First Nations, pro or anti flossing, pro or anti bass, pro or anti bait.

That being said, I do read just about every single post on the forum and if a concern that needs to be brought up, I will do so through my DFO contacts and at related meetings. My colleagues from various organizations also read the material posted on this discussion forum so your concerns are not lost in the cyber space.

To really make a difference, I encourage everyone to join an existing sportfishing group, club, association that can represent your interests and views in the best possible way.

Lastly, I would like to suggest that instead of continuously pointing out unpleasant sights that you come across while fishing, try developing solutions.