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[TrophyHunter]

It is human nature to think all is well with my choice but not yours. Bar fishing folks will not think for a second that their fishing method, however unintentional, will still harm fish survival. No method is perfect. They just point the finger the other way at all cost because they don't like our method for whatever reason. It is useless to debate over ethics. If the law allows it, so be it.

It is human nature to try and justify the way we do things!!!!
the way you choose to fish ( BB ) is snagging, the fish don't bite they are snagged, sometimes in the mouth sometimes in the body but they are snagged

the way I choose to fish Bar Fishing , the fish bite the lure they are not snagged and they always come in head first

I used to BB and if you don't think snagging fish is any harder on the fish then you are kidding yourself... I know what happens when you are snagging because I used to do it.. you are bouncing along with a huge hook and a giant leader and you are snagging anything fleshy.. half the time you take a chunk out of the fish and it swims away injured, for every one fish that you get to the beach you are taking a chunk out of three or four others.

I am not going to ask you to stop doing it as it is not illegal yet, I just hate it when people try to compare it to Bar Fishing....

[Youngin]

It is human nature to think all is well with my choice but not yours. Bar fishing folks will not think for a second that their fishing method, however unintentional, will still harm fish survival. No method is perfect. They just point the finger the other way at all cost because they don't like our method for whatever reason. It is useless to debate over ethics. If the law allows it, so be it.

It's not useless to debate over ethics.. It's good that we share our own opinions and views.. You choose your own life style.. I admit it's hard sittin there float fishing or bar fishing.. and waiting for some action that will probably not come for a while.. my my self, I love bbing.... I like it when I feel like every tap is a fish.. it's very exciting to me (not to mention you lose 50% of your gear).. but sometimes you gotta do what's right to save our fish for the future generations.

[milo]

I have caught numerous chinooks and other salmon species by means of barfishing, shortfloating and flossing. After a thorough study, a number of trials and A-B tests, I have reached an unequivocal conclusion, which I am pleased to share with all of you on this board:

No matter how you catch them, it makes no difference to them. And more importantly, they taste the same. 

[troutbreath]

So true.

[Gooey]

I don't think anyone here actually thinks flossing is sporting, nor do we think a flossed fish bit the hook...no one here is that stupid WF.

The regs say a fish must be hooked in the mouth - apparently in the side of the mouth is now close enough.  I have pointed out before that if the reg said INSIDE the mouth, flossing would be illegal or if the regs said a fish must be induced into a strike, once again flossing would be illegal.  If DFO wanted to change the wording of the regs, put in leader restrictions, ban bottom bouncing, shut the river down, etc, they could do any of those things very easily! 

Based on the fact that they could act but instead do nothing,  I am left assume that DFO really doesnt care about the sports impact on sockeye.  Guess what, as I said before, a family friend of mine who assigned sockeye quotas for several years said the board's feelings when he was on it was that the sport impact on the sockeye run was so insignificant that it was never a concern.

Flossing exsists in a grey area, one that people exploit to put fish on the table.  The fraser river sockeye fishery is a good example of a fishery were you really dont have a fish that bites with any great frequency - flossing is the only efficient way of harvesting them.  World Famous, if DFO isn't going to stop it because they really don't care, then why should you care that its happening?  You made a decision for yourself not to floss, I applaud you.  In the meantime, there are more than enough fish to share so I will enjoy accessing them while I can.

[All Tangled Up]

Beat around the bush all you like, snagging fish still isnt sporting. Flossing fish is the grand delusion of the angling community.

Who's beating around the bush? I don't recall any flossers calling themselves sportfisherman. On the other hand you can pass out drunk, have a nap barfishing and call yourself a sportfisherman. I just don't get it. Barfishing is a numbers game as well. Since the river is so dirty you couldn't possible see the fish nibble your huge spin'n glo. I think that the natural reaction of the salmon to open and close their mouth when they hit the dirty non salt water of the Fraser, causes them to accidentally swallow(bite/floss) your spin'n glo.

[Gooey]

In my opinion, DFO doesnt really care about flossing and we all know its fact that they have very ambiguous regs...ask yourself the question why?

Ever thought that a fractured sports fishing community can't represent itself well and effect change?  Ever thought that as long as we are squabling with ourselves, we can't effectively lobby the government and represnet ourselves effectively?

When it comes down to it, float fisher, flyfishers, flossers, and bar fishers are all on the same side and are all a part of the same "recreational" allocation so I think we need to stop fighting with eachother and get on to collectively supporting the resource.

PS - I am going to try and replace "sport" with "recreational" in my postings, ie I am a recreational fisherman...maybe the barfishers will stop get all hung up on the word SPORT then!

[TrophyHunter]

Beat around the bush all you like, snagging fish still isnt sporting. Flossing fish is the grand delusion of the angling community.

Who's beating around the bush? I don't recall any flossers calling themselves sportfisherman. On the other hand you can pass out drunk, have a nap barfishing and call yourself a sportfisherman. I just don't get it. Barfishing is a numbers game as well. Since the river is so dirty you couldn't possible see the fish nibble your huge spin'n glo. I think that the natural reaction of the salmon to open and close their mouth when they hit the dirty non salt water of the Fraser, causes them to accidentally swallow(bite/floss) your spin'n glo.

hmmmmm pretty funny comments.. first of all I have been Barfishing 12 times now and not once have I or anyone else in my party gotten drunk!! if fact on our last day out I didn't see an alchoholic beverage, secondly if you think that a fish accidentally hookes itself on a Brfishing rig then you are dellusional !!!! you have been asked not to BB if you still are then you are not a good citizen!!! if you don't want to Barfish go to the Vedder and floatfish, seems pretty simple to me..

[Gooey]

Hey rick, do you have any kids?  I have a 3 and a 4 year old and they know when I am serious about something and they also know when my "no" gets a little rubbery.

If DFO wanted all flossing to stop, it would be SIMPLE to change the regs, close the river, what ever.  The flossers going after springs right now have a negligable impact on the early stuarts thats why they havent change the laws/regs to eliminated BBing.

When i am determined about something my kids know it and they know the concequences...DFO can't expect anything when they put out ambiguous regs, flimsy wording in the opening notices, and finally don't follow up with any enforcement or fines.

Anyone BBIng the fraser and been asked to stop by an enforcement office or written a ticket?

[Rieber]

They won't write a ticket because there is no law against it. No law broken so nothing to charge you with. I think this is just their way of trying to turn off as many anglers as possible in feable attempt to reduce the amount of fishermen on the river during this small sockeye run.

In my opinion, from my observations, I believe they've succeeded. Good for them - I hope they continue the same tactic again next year.

[Fish Assassin]

If DFO wanted all flossing to stop, it would be SIMPLE to change the regs, close the river, what ever. 

I have to agree. The regulations as it is written currently does not ban bottom bouncing or any other forms of fishing. It is so ambiguous you can drive a truck through it.

[Gooey]

"Since DFO can't legislate against bb'ing and flossing"...Can't??? I absoluitely disagree fisherforever, they wont.  It would be simple to change the regs...and in fact an old buddy of mine got nailed for flossing a coho at the tamihi!  They enforced it there! 

Its a simple matter in my opinion: there are lots of socs to go around, the socs don't readily bite in the fraser, so dfo allows us to harvest them by flossing them (which is nothing more than snagging a fish in the face but thats the best wayto catch socs on the fraser). 

I can save my ethics and sportsmanship for smaller runs and smaller river systems and still be a respectible fisherperson.

I don't think a 10 soc a year limit is nessecarily a bad thing...it is more than I took the last 2-3 years if not more but what ever.

BTW I just made a new fishing buddy with a boat...I hope to be trolling my socs this year not flossing them, I used to slay em out at the QA marker when I had a little whaler.

[liketofish]

For years, DFO officers checked licenses & barbed hooks on the sockeye bars but not ticketing anyone for flossed sockeyes as snagging defined in their regs. During their tours of duty, they witnessed sockeyes flossed left & right around them. They have never bent down to examine if the hook is inside or just outside the mouth. That is the end of debate over the legality of BB for the Fraser sockeye/spring fisery. COs have never known to be kind to 'recreational' fishermen if they witness them violate their codes. If the bar fishers feel guilty taking fish this way, they can stay with their bar fishing. As Milo says it well, whether you feel guilty or vindicated in killing a fish with whatever technique, it makes no difference to the dead fish, and it tastes the same.

If you are a bar fisher and a hunter also, using the argument that the victim must be intending to eat your offering to justify killing it, you may as well drop your rifles & bows, and turn into a trapper. Will you?

[All Tangled Up]

I wasn't calling every barfer a passed out drunk! I was merely pointing out the hilarity of the Sport aspect of the pictures of someone barfing whilst (let's call it napping) fishing. I wonder how many barfisherman turn to flossing when the sockeye are in open season? I then wonder how many of them bitch about flossing just to seem more ethical with the likes of this board yet floss secretly. What is the DFO's interpretation of 'selective fishing methods'? I tried to find flossing in there but I couldn't. I believe it refers to natives and their netting. If I fly fish with a 5/0 hook and a few small split shot near the hook is that more ethical?? The worst flossers I have ever seen are some flyfisherman. Attention ethical flyfisherman "THIS DOES NOT MEAN ALL OF YOU ARE SNAGGERS".

As for a salmon accidentally swimming into a spin'n glow, I would never know because you can't see anything in the river.  Just the same as not all sockeye are hooked from the outside in. When I catch one with the hook in the 'proper way' does that mean this one bit? Call me delusional again! Do you ever have a spring on that was foul hooked while barfing? How did that happen?

[pepsitrev]

  good point all tangled