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[troutbreath]

"Feel free to list any solutions here that you may have to address this blight on sports angling that I can take to the meeting when it is called."

I think the problem is fairly obvious, that there is no enforcement to stop snagging fish . Snagging is in the regs. No COs or DFO people out there to regulate the problem. Leaves everyone pretty upset. You pay for a license an a conservation stamp to see nothing done with the money. Unless you call having another appeasement session with fishing folk and accommodation,meals and out of pocket expenses for DFO brass etc. something worthwhile. Work for the gov. so am especially jaded to the inner workings of it when politicians and self serving groups try to please buddies. While fishing gets turned to gravel mining. It's all business, and the soft shoe shuffle in the end.

[2:40]

Thanks to all who apprecited my thoughts on this issue. 

As for ideas to take to the meeting, there has been some interesting ones presented already.

I think any way we look at it, we're all going to have to give up something in the cause to fix this.

Species retention limited to coho and jacks only during this time is an idea, but will sure hurt a lot of decent anglers. Plus, the hatchery puts a lot of money into the white spring run for rec. angling. Will a push for non-retention be well recieved? Will it work? I think it would be fairly effective, but maybe an idea to try after some more issues that are more of the root of the problem are addressed first.

I think consideration needs to be placed into flossing in general. I dont think we can fix the problem unless we remove flossing/snagging/sweeping/lining/sight fishing from all sport angling. I know the many guys here who get their two sockeye, clean up their garbage and leave may howl at this idea, but is a few sockeye worth what it supports and promotes on the Vedder and many other systems? I dont think Ive heard one member, flosser or not, on this site in support of what's going on under the Keith Wilson Bridge. Considering that each and every person using sockeye methods on the Vedder can give the same reasons guys give to use it on the Fraser for sockeye, there's no way to combat it unless it doesnt exist at all.

There has been some interesting ideas put forth of making the sockeye flossery into a harvest different from sport angling. While I wish this was done before people went out and did it and got this whole problem started (I was one of those  ) has anyone made an effort in this regard? While I think it just opens a bunch of doors that no sport angler should ever open, Im still interested in hearing more of this.

Does sport angling have enough life in it to sit on the sidelines while people try to re-write what sport angling is about instead of taking a step back and fixing things before it really becomes too late?

I think not. Let's fix the problem and bring sport angling back down to a simple standard like it was meant to be; the fish must bite the hook. Then all anglers are on the same level and playing on the same field.

Sure, enforcement is lacking, but that doesnt mean we cant make more regulations necessary in light of a huge problem. Just because we dont have enforcement, should we remove all the regs we currently have? The number of regulations makes no difference when talking about how many people are out there to enforce them. Guys who want to break regs will get caught sooner than later, and it's not fun looking over your shoulder if your 6' leader is now illegal. It is a deterant.

Regardless of questions and possible negatives to ideas we have here, I say bring each and every one to the table. This is a serious issue out there, we cant make it any worse, and sadly, before things improve, we're going to have to give up a bit as well. It may be gear restrictions (no more 3.5 foot leaders for rubber worm) or no more sockeye flossing on the Fraser.

[chris gadsden]

Doug:you bring up some good points. But it would be interesting to see if DFO would have the balls to implement such a change in the regulations. They have such an invisible presence on the Vedder, it makes you wonder how much they really care about the fishery on the Vedder.

In all respect it is not that FOC does not care, it is us the recreational angler that has lobbied and fought for this openings in fresh water the last few years. As I have said many times as much as I hate to admit it I was part of the group that helped obtain these openings for what what supposed to be sports angling. However as most know on this board a good number of the fish caught on the Chilliwack Vedder these days are by the sweeping method. We have to be pretty blind not to see and admit this. As I mentioned earlier today sweeping was rampant in the Canal area today.

 Of course the sockeye opening on the Fraser is no different and just fuels the hunger on other streams as well. Thanks for those have but forth ideas so far to be presented in the upcoming meeting that may bring sports angling back to what it should be.

To try and correct it some unpopular decisions will have to be made but in my mind if we are true sports anglers we should welcome these changes.

[Murkeywaters]

Hi all,

Personally I would just make the whole of the Vedder catch and release. It's such a confined river with so much pressure that I just don't know why you don't. It'd surely get rid of the meat fishermen and leave it to the sport anglers.

I know I come from a different angling culture (UK) and probably most of you wouldn't want this, but if you love fishing then to me it's about the joy of hooking, playing and releasing the fish having had the privilege to see them up close and personal (perhaps a quick pic)- that's all I need to get my hit!

I struggle to understand the attitudes out here at times (but I'm the outsider I know that and am not wanting to preach just tell it how I see it – perhaps put a different perspective on it). I just don't get this selective attitude of fish "value" - but I guess this comes back to the value of the fish for the table.

I read about ugly, horrible Chum, white Springs that smell bad, Jesus guys you don't know how ******* lucky you are to be able to fish for these massive runs of quality fish for next to no cost!!! Never mind killing them.  What brilliant sport you have be it Chum, Spring or Coho, isn’t it great to just be able to go out and get lots of sport? Although you are used to this there are hell of a lot of places on the planet where you are just glad to get a fish, you guys have the luxury of “deciding” which fish you want.

But hey that’s just how I see it. You really are lucky, try looking at what it’d cost you to fish for Salmon around the globe, and then you’ll realise. (and so many of these expensive places have tiny runs compared to what you guys get)

I've fished quite a lot of places around the globe (some very, very remote) and time and time again I find the stocks of once prolific fish reduced to pitiful levels by mans actions.

But here you still have fantastic runs of fish, close I guess to what mother nature intended.

I can see why you might want to keep the Frazer open for catch and retain, but a beautiful small river like the Vedder – well to me it is madness! But that’s just my opinion!

Now the lower mainland is getting increasingly populated I don’t see how river like the Vedder can sustain an ongoing taking of fish, it’ll only get worse and worse until you HAVE to do something. So rather than try and regulate the methods which we all know will never be effectively enforced (Ok I might be wrong but it’d need a lot of dedicated officers on there full time which I am sure will never happen). Why not just make it totally catch and release?

Do people need fish to eat that badly? No one is starving! Let them get their fill from the Frazer and give the fish that make it through a chance at spawning.

As I see it you can give the meat fishers their desire on the Fraser, and satisfy the sport anglers on the Vedder and similar rivers in this way.

Kind regards,

Paul.

[Rodney]

Posting these for Chris.

[chris gadsden]

Posting these for Chris.

Yes this was the scene at KWB today for those that have not seen it before.

[Fish Assassin]

Unbelievable. No way you're seeing me there.

[chris gadsden]

Did a tour of KWB this afternoon with the FOC official we will be meeting with to discuss the present state of our sports angling so he could see first hand what is going on there. Needless to say he was not very impressed with what he saw.

This meeting will most likely go in November, please add any suggestion to this thread you may have that you would like discussed at this meeting so they can be put forward.

[Fish Assassin]

I would like to see these so called "fishermen" charged and their equipment and vehicles confiscated but that's wishful thinking on my part.

[Ribwart]

I've noticed a significant increase this year of dead fish on the shoreline that had obviously died before their time...ie: nearly clean springs lying in one foot of water and wasted before spawning because they had a hole put in their belly from a flossers hook!!!! I even saw it once during steelhead season. Might mention that along with all the rest....never used to be that you'd see what appeared to be perfectly intact salmon dead on the bottom with a huge hook sticking out of its gut....
this belly hunting, as I read someone so eloquently put it, is now having a more prominent and serious effect on fish than just harrassing them, or breaching ethics...it is now preventing fish from spawning that would otherwise spawn once released....this will permanently influence fish stocks/populations in years to come in an effect that will likely be cumulative as long as it is allowed to persist...it also renders completely redundant any regulations that are set in place to allow for safe release of species not designated for retention...ie: we have barbless hooks for many reasons, but first and foremost to safely and quickly release those fish that are incidental catches while fishing for retainable species...what's the point, if a fish gets a belly full of water, can't swim properly anymore and "drowns" ar dies of some infection within a day or two...?
How many people here have noticed fresh chrome fish lying dead on the bottom of the river? It is especially obvious down by KWB, but I am starting to notice it all over the river these days...I don't remember ever seeing that 10 or even 5 yrs ago...
if there is anything I can do to help, my support and and time are here,
rib

[leadbelly]

so now that the Ved(and others) looks like the Fraser in August people complain?
funny there seemed to be allot of happy people around here last sockeye season
I know what most of you are probably going to say but none of it will matter, the damage has been done.

[frenchy]

I would have loved being able to write what Murkeywaters said and totally agree with him concerning the chum and white fisheries.

[Ribwart]

you have a good point there leadbelly, but I didn't just start to complain...this is just the first you read of it here....and I amongst others (I assume), haven't fished the sockeye fishery since the first time I ever checked it out at least 7 or more years ago...

I don't think the double standards you are referring to are the problem though, do you? The problem is nothing is being done to solve the problem...I am sure I am not the only one that doesn't fish sockeye, and I'll bet more and more people will stop fishing sockeye as this problem progresses....I hope anyway...that's a start isn't it?

[TrophyHunter]

so now that the Ved(and others) looks like the Fraser in August people complain?
funny there seemed to be allot of happy people around here last sockeye season
I know what most of you are probably going to say but none of it will matter, the damage has been done.

I find it very funny that the first time I ever met you Leadbelly was when you you flossing for Springs at Laidlaw Bar
the Vedder is no different now because of the Sockeye run, it is that way because of morons !! anyone with a brain knows that the fish on the Vedder bite and you don't need to long line them, but then again those idiots have been there for a long long time and it is no different now than it was ten years ago, same river same idiots...the only difference now is we havce reformed snaggers like you whining on all the sites !!!!

[leadbelly]

well, I quit sockeye "fishing" and thats a start
clearly its a double standard. Once you take the sport out of sport fishing whats the difference what system its done on, or how much effort is thrown at it by the authorities or how many people are doing it or how frequently the fish in question bite or excuse du jour ad nauseum in perpetuity.
black and white in my mind, especially for those who should know better,and be setting an example for new or younger fishermen and women.