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[buck]

Fishing the Vedder this year has turned into gong show to say the least. I'm beginning to wonder if anyone out there really know how to fish. I've come across anglers who just can't help riping the float through the water at the end of every drift. Then there's the long liners who must think there super stars who are hooking springs, dogs and coho consistently. I think a lot of these guys have migrated from the Fraser to the Vedder. Oh yes, there are the sight anglers who are targeting holding coho at the cement slab below the limits hole. These guys really should be charged with harassment to salmon. I could rant on but whats the use.
On a more positive note, we had our first fish sort today at the hatchery and processed over a thousand coho, all of which were larger than in past years. Lots of fish in the 8 - 10 lb range. Some fish to 14 lbs.

[bbronswyk2000]

   When we were out fishing this past weekend we stopped at the crossing. Merc and I were having a discussion about this. I used to get really annoyed at them but lately I am less annoyed. I know that some of them know better and those ones I cant stand. Than their are the guys that just do what everyone else is doing since they are new to the sport. For example. I saw this one guy at the crossing. He had a brand new bait caster and drift rod. ( Probably stopped in at Fred's just before fishing ) He also had a huge salmon net and a small cooler. He would pull line out of his reel and throw the line out. So he would have maybe a 6-7 foot drift before reeling back in. Before he started I saw him looking around at everyone. He than adjusted his float which was about 9 feet from his hook. He would than do a rip at the end of his drift, just like what everyone else was doing.

   Can you blame this guy? I don't, since that's all he knows because that's what everyone else is doing. Its those people that we need to talk to and educate them. The more people we can talk to the less people we will have out there doing it. Of course their are going to be people still doing it since all they are in it for is to catch as many fish as they can at any cost. We just have to report those individuals and hope they get caught.

[Murkeywaters]

Hi all,

I am one of these people. I've fished all my life but am new to BC so when I turn up I do often copy others at least initially until I get a feel for what's going on. I've still not landed a Salmon so I still haven't got a good feel for it yet.

Last time I was on the Vedder I was told by guys who looked like they knew what they were doing (and catching) to fish so deep that the lead is just of the bottom, hitting the odd rock, and to use a leader of about 3foot. This was back in July when I came down to fish the for the early spirings. I still didn't catch anything but figured I wasn't seeing the hits on the float that others were, they must have been subtle hits! - experince I guess?

Is this method OK or am I classed as flossing/snagging?

I'm coming back down (from Vernon) in a week or so for another try. Can someone tell me how I should fish (with a float)? I don't really care what species I catch, any Salmon would be a first for me, but having said that is there specific ways of targeting a spring over a Coho, the Sockey has me totally confused as everyone says they don't bite and you can only snag them.

So it'd need to know an acceptable leader length and the distance from the bottom I should be fishing (is this species specific?)

I have read a hell of a lot of articles about fishing in BC both online and on the web, and never have I come across this info - it would be really useful if someone would put an article together explaining the rights and wrongs of fishing for different salmon species, and how to go about it in an ethical way - from a purely sport fishing perspective.

Finally I don't understand the criticism of people fishing for fish they can see, is it that they are just trying to pull hooks into the fish, but other wise if I saw a load of fish I'd want to put a bait or lure in front of them?

Finally I assume casting a spoon/lure/spinner is pretty OK?

Hope you guys can help me out a bit here,

tightlines,

cheers,

Paul.

[chris gadsden]

Paul, there is info about short floating here, and I am sure Rodney will give you the link. The main thing is your float should be drifting down the run in a vertical position not laying on its side as this method in most cases will lead to snagging or flossing fish which unfortunately is going on in increasing numbers as Buck as mentioned.

[blaydRnr]

bbronswyk2000...
no you can't blame that guy. almost everyone i've ever known (including myself) has gone thru that stage, where they've tried everything and anything to catch fish. it was an easy transition for myself, because i've fished the saltchuck since i was 9, so i only had to adjust to the different techniques and sharpen my river 'knowhow'.   hopefully with guidance and time that person will progress to the next level.  i believe, unless you were lucky enough to learn from an experienced fisher, that people can only learn thru trial and error.  what irks me are the people who don't enjoy the art of sportfishing and don't give a rat's my friend about the regulations.

[Fish Assassin]

I too don't blame the guy if he's starting out and don't know the ropes. Most of us has progressed past that stage. What gets my goat are the guys who know what they are doing is wrong and is still doing it.

[chris gadsden]

Buck this is the price we pay for having the sockeye fishery on the Fraser that we have debated over and over again. Of course when we debate this and what we see it is doing to our fishery a number of us are said to be elitist etc. but all I have to say the proof is in the pudding now boys as we observe what we have created, a monster on the Chilliwack Vedder River system.

 Unfortunately it now seems we have gone to the point of no return as you have mentioned in your post that a very high percentage of people are using this method now. As well some, but not all donot know any better, those that do should be ashamed of themselves to have to use these methods to catch a fish on the Chilliwack Vedder or any other river for that matter.

If someone has an answer what can be done to swing the pendulum back to what angling used to be about I would be interested to hear, it will not be easy in my mind maybe impossible.

[blaydRnr]

Buck this is the price we pay for having the sockeye fishery on the Fraser that we have debated over and over again. Of course when we debate this and what we see it is doing to our fishery a number of us are said to be elitist etc. but all I have to say the proof is in the pudding now boys as we observe what we have created, a monster on the Chilliwack Vedder River system.
 

POLITICS that's all it is. if they can implement regulations regarding hooks...ie the saltchuck and outlaw fishing techniques, ie...chumming and the use of light to attract fish..  they pretty damn well can outlaw bbing from the vedder and other smaller systems.... the problem is THEY CHOOSE NOT TO

[chris gadsden]

 In all respect how do you prevent someone with a 2 to 3 foot leader, what a lot of people use but then lengthen out there float length to a depth far greater than the run they are fishing so as they are sweeping through the run. As in a lot of cases the fish are in a fairly confined area especially in the low water conditions we have now and it is just a matter of time a fish is flossed or snagged.

The only way that this could maybe be corrected is to educate people that this is not the way to angle. Fine and good but we have so many now that want to continue the sockeye opportunity on the Fraser so of course, many, not all I must add are just going to carry it over to our other systems. To many it is the way to catch a fish, that is the bottom line, once again I am sorry to say, no easy answer, to me any way.

[blaydRnr]

why not regulate the weight? you might not abolish the method, but you can hinder it.  even if people don't always follow the rules, nothing wrong with implementing them.

[MERC]

As BB2K was saying earlier, we had a discussion about this on Sunday while we were at the Crossing.  There are two definite camps, IMHO.  There are meat fisherfolks, and sports fisherfolks.  Within both camps there are those who know what they are doing and those who don't.  And, the line isn't set in stone.  Sometimes you're a meat fisherfolk, sometimes you're a sportie and vice versa.  But I'm speaking in very broad generalities here.  And like in all things there are those who don't really know what they're doing and those who do.  I have little time or patience for those who fall into the latter and try to pass on some info for the former.  This is a situation where Dr Frankenstein has created a monster and now it's running rampant.  Actually, it's more like Dr Oppenheimer creating the atom bomb and all the rest of the world trying to create more bombs in order to keep up.  For those who paticipate in the Fraser sockeye fishery, this is the spillover that happens. Chris is absolutely right about that.  Regardless of whether or not you choose to leave that style of fishing to sockeye in the Fraser, your participation in the sockeye fest makes you implicitly culpable for this type of behavior as the signals go out that this kind of fishery is acceptable. I also accept that I am guilty of this for my participaton.   And for those who argue that the law allows it on the Fraser...the same law also allows it on the Vedder.  I don't want to turn this into a rant, I just want people to understand the repercussions of the Fraser sockeye fishery. 

As to changing the laws or regulations.  I've said on different occasions that changing laws requires a significant amount of political will.  And the regulations, as an adjunct to the Fisheries Act, also requires a fair bit of political will, just a lot less than that required to change the Fisheries Act. But, changing the law without enforcing the law is a useless waste of everyone's time.  They become scoff laws: laws in fact but not in practice.  And, the political stakeholders who are responsible for changing the regulations, are realistically, not overly concerned about what a few fisherfolks. with a conscience, think. Hard brutal facts.  So, at a grassroots level, education becomes the only tool that we can use to make changes around our own environment.  Show people how to short float, watch as  they catch a few fish, and then you have converts (in the ideal world). Show them what kind of water to look for when fishing cohos, springs etc and stay away from the gong shows.  In the meantime, write to your local MP to lobby for changes in the laws and for more enforcement on the rivers.    Once Pandora's box was opened, there's no shutting it...no re-locking up the evils that were let out. But at the bottom of the box there is one tiny creature inside called Hope that was also let out.  We control that "Hope"  for a better fishing environment by educating others.  Then go after changing the laws.  Have some people from this site run for election. 

[Rodney]

Murkeywaters, some links available for you and others who maybe interested:

How to float fish more effectively for coho?

Short Floating Tactic Explained

[BwiBwi]

One thing we need to keep in mind.  Why is there so many different fishing style?  Well it's to suit different situations and the finally result is to catch fish.  If your not there to catch fish then why not go hiking, that'll save you lots on gears.

Why do we use graphite rods, and reels? Why not use stick and horse tail lines with hooks made of bones? They snap easy, that's why.  So really is any one fishing style better than another?

What's more important is to educate people never drag a fish on to beach or exhaust out a fish only to throw them back to die.  That is not C&R.  Also no multi dipping.  Stay within your allowed limit.  If anyone needs nourishment during fishing trip please take away what you brought in.

[All Tangled Up]

I talked to a newfie and he said back home if your hook went 4" under water you were fined for snagging? Don't know how true this is but I am sure all the top water fly-fishers would like this idea. Has anyone ever top water fished the vedder with the fly rod? Has anyone caught one?

[Nicole]

Tangled up, no to the top water question. Doubt that would be happening, and the newfie was probably talking about atlantics... Different beast entirely.

I think the 10 salmon limit per licence has to get started soon... That way most of the sockeye people will be limited out, and you won't see them on the vedder. I think making people very picky about what they kill would be a good thing... And get the summer harvest anglers off the rivers in the fall.

It would also be good during sockeye season, as it would slow down double dipping, and also people catching fish for everyone else (ie uncles, sisters, the boss). I think that is a huge problem right now.

I'd also be okay with increased penalities for snagging... I think if someone is caught snagging they should have their car impounded, never to be returned. Auction proceeds go to habitat and conservation.

Cheers,
Nicole