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[Nicole]

As I said in my last post go to Squamish during the Chum season and you will see 20-30 fly fishermen lined up along the beach every single one of them using a sink tip and a ten foot leader !! this is exactly the same setup I have seen from every fly guy/ girl I have seen fishing the vedder this year !!  this is the ultimate flossing tool !!!! If you think that these people on the Squamish aren't flossing the chum then you are kidding yourself, the reason I am responding to this post is because for years I have listened to the fly people talking about how " Ethical" they are for fly fishing.. how the river should be closed to all fishermen but them .... and then they stand there and floss the fish one after the other, they might as wel be tossing betties !!! now if you are using a floating line and a weighted fly then yes I agree that is a great way to avoid flossing.. the point is only 10% of the fly peoples are using this combo !!
IMO opinion the only true form of absolute" Ethical " fishing is either short floating with a slow drift, or tossing a dry fly ..

Sounds like you need to be taken flyfishing, let me know when you're ready to learn, and I'll take you out... I don't mind at all.

All we've been using are slime lines or dry lines with 10 feet of flouro leader, and only one chum has been foul hooked so far... So I'm guessing you haven't seen this fly girl out there

And for shortfloating to be as ethical as fishing a dry fly, you'd be needing to fish a corkie on the surface as well... To be equal and all. You can clearly see now how much sense this comment makes.

Cheers,
Nicole

[TrophyHunter]

As I said in my last post go to Squamish during the Chum season and you will see 20-30 fly fishermen lined up along the beach every single one of them using a sink tip and a ten foot leader !! this is exactly the same setup I have seen from every fly guy/ girl I have seen fishing the vedder this year !!  this is the ultimate flossing tool !!!! If you think that these people on the Squamish aren't flossing the chum then you are kidding yourself, the reason I am responding to this post is because for years I have listened to the fly people talking about how " Ethical" they are for fly fishing.. how the river should be closed to all fishermen but them .... and then they stand there and floss the fish one after the other, they might as wel be tossing betties !!! now if you are using a floating line and a weighted fly then yes I agree that is a great way to avoid flossing.. the point is only 10% of the fly peoples are using this combo !!
IMO opinion the only true form of absolute" Ethical " fishing is either short floating with a slow drift, or tossing a dry fly ..

Sounds like you need to be taken flyfishing, let me know when you're ready to learn, and I'll take you out... I don't mind at all.

All we've been using are slime lines or dry lines with 10 feet of flouro leader, and only one chum has been foul hooked so far... So I'm guessing you haven't seen this fly girl out there

And for shortfloating to be as ethical as fishing a dry fly, you'd be needing to fish a corkie on the surface as well... To be equal and all. You can clearly see now how much sense this comment makes.

Cheers,
Nicole

First of all I realize that you don't intentionally floss fish so my comments aren't aimed towards you ... and yes one day I would love to fish with you and learn a few tips !!
the point I was trying to make is that a short floated presentation drifted slowly through a run has a very low chance of flossing a fish .. on the other hand a dry fly has zero chance of flossing a fish.. so technically you are right
please don;t take my comment personally , they are aimed at other fisher people the kind that Floss " Ethically "

[Nicole]

None taken, no worries! I just like debating...


Nicole

[4x4]

Rick,

I've seen fish snagged by short floating and dry line fishing. I've had trout either reject the fly and turn causing the fly to get snagged on it's body and I've also had trout jump on the dry fly and get hooked (this is not uncommon for trout to land on a surface bug then come back to eat the stunned insect). Snagging the odd fish can't be helped no matter what the gear.

I don't think fly tossers purposely go out to floss Chum. Many probably don't even think that they may be doing this when they are out fishing. Chum on the Squamish or any other system are easy to take on the retrieve in pretty well all types of water.

As for sink-tip lines, it depends on how you are fishing that might be considered flossing. I use type 5 and 8 sink-tips with short 4-5ft leaders and weighted flies in slower deep runs to get down to the fish. Once I feel the fly is deep enough I start my retrieve. Probably 70% of the fish I catch is on the retrieve in these conditions and not the drift.

If you think I'm an ethical flosser with the flyrod, you're wrong. I sent you an e-mail last week and you could of come out and seen for yourself.

By the way I also use drift gear and love tossing spoons to Coho (which by the way are also possible to snag on occasion fishing this way).

Wishing all of you a good Salmon season - no matter what type of gear you use.

Dennis

[blaydRnr]

its all about intent. doesn't matter what gear you use. i've seen flossers in all forms, unfortunately, they give the rest of the legitimate fishers, a bad name.

i'm not an expert on flyfishing, but i know flourocarbon sinks faster than mono, so if you use 10 ft. for leader combined with a weighted fly, how deep from the surface are you really fishing? just curious.

[Fish Assassin]

its all about intent. doesn't matter what gear you use.

Bingo !

[TrophyHunter]

4X4 I am sure that you are a good ethical fisherman as is Nicole !! and I know there are a ton of others out there !!

maybe I need to make myself clearer to you, I have stood beside flyfishermen for many years I have watched how they fish, 99.9 % of the fish they catch are caught while their sinktip line sweeps through the school of fish, not while they are retrieving .. I have helped release the fish they catch and they are almost always hooked in the corner of the mouth , I have also witnessed the flyfishermen outfish the shortfloaters 3-1 even 4 -1 ... even the guys using betties get outfished by these fly flossers.... and it isn't just a few it is hundreds.. go to the Squamish this fall and see for yourself.. even a prominent fly teacher from the lower mainland was up there last year showing me how easy the fish were flossed with almost every drift.. I have used my fly gear and I have seen how it works....
those fly fishermen and fisherwomen that fly fish the frog water and lakes are not flossing the fish and I am not talking about those people... I am talking about the people that set up their fly gear so that they can sweep through the run and take the most amount of fish.. they catch fish after fish and then they get online and bash all the flossers from the sockeye season... we saw a guy last week at the Ranger run using an 8 inch length of chain followed by approx 15 feet of leader through the fast water... on his spey rod  

4X4 if you don't use this method then you are not who I am talking about and you don't need to defend yourself to me

[DionJL]

I don't know where you're pulling these numbers from. I do realize alot of people flyfloss on purpose, and alot of people fly floss because they don't know any better, but there are still ALOT of fly fisherman that fish with the intent to ethically hook fish. I think your numbers are a little bit more than exagerated.

On a side note, it seems that there has been a general shift to "catching" rather than "fishing". This being over the last few years while i have been concious of the difference.

[cohokid]

flossing debates, thats all the forums have been turnin into

[FlyFishin Magician]

Unfortunately, there are anglers who use "questionable" means to hook fish - no matter what method is employed.  I for one use both the drift rod and fly rod - although I am much more experienced with the latter.  Yes - I do use a sinking tip system and change tips according to the conditions.  Yes - I can generally tell the difference between a "bump" and a "strike".  No - I do not jig or rip the fly through a school of fish.  It is no fun trying to land a foul hooked salmon with a fly rod!  It's also not fun losing flies that I spent time tying myself - and snagging fish is a great way to lose flies.

With respect to the drift set-up, I feel that there is a level of skill involved with establishing the right presentation.  I love hooking coho while short floating with roe bags (yes - a fly guy who uses roe bags).  I have yet to master the blades - as I've only hooked and lost a handful of coho on blades.

So - I guess my point is to thickrick - I'm sorry you've come across fly fishers who feel that their way is the only way.  Yes - you can floss fish with flies - but anyone can attempt to floss fish with any method.  I depends on the individual angler - not the method.  And yes - flies can be extremely effective under the right conditions...

[FlyFishin Magician]

I forgot to mention - I've experienced so many times when a particular fly pattern is the ticket.  For example, when flyfishing for pinks, it can be a fish a cast - but with the wrong fly - you'll get nothing!  That tells me that the fish do take the fly readily...

[summersteel]

Being a flyfisher myself, I feel I can comment on this,and I have to agree with Thick Rick.  All the flyfishers I've watched so far this season were flossing.  Like drift fishers these days, only 10% seem to be actually fishing.  So there is a problem with every type of fishing- its the intent of the fishers.

[summersteel]

I forgot to mention - I've experienced so many times when a particular fly pattern is the ticket.  For example, when flyfishing for pinks, it can be a fish a cast - but with the wrong fly - you'll get nothing!  That tells me that the fish do take the fly readily...

Its pretty hard to have the wrong fly isn't it, a pink anything will do.

[kellya]

I forgot to mention - I've experienced so many times when a particular fly pattern is the ticket.  For example, when flyfishing for pinks, it can be a fish a cast - but with the wrong fly - you'll get nothing!  That tells me that the fish do take the fly readily...

Its pretty hard to have the wrong fly isn't it, a pink anything will do.

Yea right try the beach they can be very tight lipped

[FlyFishin Magician]

I forgot to mention - I've experienced so many times when a particular fly pattern is the ticket.  For example, when flyfishing for pinks, it can be a fish a cast - but with the wrong fly - you'll get nothing!  That tells me that the fish do take the fly readily...

Its pretty hard to have the wrong fly isn't it, a pink anything will do.

Yes - you're generally correct.  But sometimes I like to experiment with new patterns that I've tied up.  Some work, some don't.  It sounds crazy, but after hooking fish after fish, I like to change things up to see what's happening and do some experimenting.