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[chris gadsden]

Good stuff Ribwart that is what we need, Ihope others do the same as I have found generalization are usually not too effective. If others will join you on other concerns, then put them in a letter form addressed to Mr Penner and most likely it would not hurt to add Hearn the Federal Fisheries Minister as well. I would suggest copies of this letter are made with space for anglers that agree to sign, as well as print their name with their full address. I would suggest somewhere on this letter ask for an return answer.

Have copies of this put in sports shops by someone designated to a certain region of the Province and they will also be responsible to pick them up and then send to one person that will coordinate this whole effort.

It will take a bit of work to organize all this, someone with lots of time as it is not an easy task.

Then there is two choices, mail each letter in individually as it is more effective that way. It will mean obtaining some funds for stamps etc. if you go that way. The other way is send all the completed forms to me and I will deliver them by hand to the Environment Minister. A copy should also be made of each signed form for further reference and kept on file.

Anyone willing to take up this challenge, it will not be an easy one but will be more worthwhile than just complaing on forums like this about how bad things are.

I know if I was a politician I would pay some heed, wouldn't you.

I know this type of lobby works as I have started 4 groups dealing with politically type issues like this and they have been fairly successful. I will help a I stated above but will have to leave the main job to someone else. With 10 different organizations I think that is enough for now as need sometime to fish too.

[Old Black Dog]

I guess not many remember a number of years ago when the NDP under good old Moe was going to scrap the hatchery steelhead program. The FVSS launched a very large writing campaign sending in a few hundred letters, each in an individual envelope with a stamp on each. I know there was hundred's as my boys and I did all the licking of them. Also we took the letters to several sporting good outlets for those interested in signing and we ran up a few k's on the vehicle. We believe it helped as the changed there mind on it. This method is better than a petion I think. Of course if every one concern ed would write there own letter that is better but only a few will do this.

I would suggest if OBD and others have things they would like to see changed put together a form letter listing the shortfalls and soulutions as you see them. Circulate them to sporting good shops across the Province pick them up and send them in. If you wish to do this project I will deliver them to Barry personally if you wish.

Nothing better than taking some action instead of just taking about it on fishing forums or in the coffee shop.

Chris, they did cut the production of steelhead throughout BC.

[chris gadsden]

I guess not many remember a number of years ago when the NDP under good old Moe was going to scrap the hatchery steelhead program. The FVSS launched a very large writing campaign sending in a few hundred letters, each in an individual envelope with a stamp on each. I know there was hundred's as my boys and I did all the licking of them. Also we took the letters to several sporting good outlets for those interested in signing and we ran up a few k's on the vehicle. We believe it helped as the changed there mind on it. This method is better than a petion I think. Of course if every one concern ed would write there own letter that is better but only a few will do this.

I would suggest if OBD and others have things they would like to see changed put together a form letter listing the shortfalls and soulutions as you see them. Circulate them to sporting good shops across the Province pick them up and send them in. If you wish to do this project I will deliver them to Barry personally if you wish.

Nothing better than taking some action instead of just taking about it on fishing forums or in the coffee shop.

Chris, they did cut the production of steelhead throughout BC.

Thanks, we need to get it back up where it should be. Will be asking Barry about this. How is the cutthroat situation on the Island. It seems good here in the Upper Valley. Have been doing well the last while during my brood capture trips. Got the biggest I have ever caught yesterday, approaching 3 pounds, 20 inches. Will get more info later on it when they do the DNA etc. on it.

Cheers,
 Chris

[Sterling C]

Thanks, we need to get it back up where it should be. Will be asking Barry about this. How is the cutthroat situation on the Island. It seems good here in the Upper Valley. Have been doing well the last while during my brood capture trips. Got the biggest I have ever caught yesterday, approaching 3 pounds, 20 inches. Will get more info later on it when they do the DNA etc. on it.

Cheers,
 Chris

I agree with Chris. Look at the systems in the states. Some of their systems alone release more smolts than all of B.C.'s smolt releases combined. I'm not saying we should be doing the mass egg takes from returning hatchery fish, I think we should conitue to proctect our gene pool by doing wild brood capture but how about simply expanding on what we already have. Under constant ocean sruvival rates, more smolts released will linearly equal more adults returning.


On the same topic, one question I have always wondered is what effect are the large scale hatchery releases having on our stocks both wild and hatchery. As is my understanding, steelhead occupy a specific niche in the marine environment compeltly different than that of salmon. If this limited niche is being saturated by american fish, perhaps our fish are being out competed for limited resources by these typically larger immature fish.

[Old Black Dog]

I guess not many remember a number of years ago when the NDP under good old Moe was going to scrap the hatchery steelhead program. The FVSS launched a very large writing campaign sending in a few hundred letters, each in an individual envelope with a stamp on each. I know there was hundred's as my boys and I did all the licking of them. Also we took the letters to several sporting good outlets for those interested in signing and we ran up a few k's on the vehicle. We believe it helped as the changed there mind on it. This method is better than a petion I think. Of course if every one concern ed would write there own letter that is better but only a few will do this.

I would suggest if OBD and others have things they would like to see changed put together a form letter listing the shortfalls and soulutions as you see them. Circulate them to sporting good shops across the Province pick them up and send them in. If you wish to do this project I will deliver them to Barry personally if you wish.

Nothing better than taking some action instead of just taking about it on fishing forums or in the coffee shop.

Chris, they did cut the production of steel head throughout BC.

Thanks, we need to get it back up where it should be. Will be asking Barry about this. How is the cutthroat situation on the Island. It seems good here in the Upper Valley. Have been doing well the last while during my brood capture trips. Got the biggest I have ever caught yesterday, approaching 3 pounds, 20 inches. Will get more info later on it when they do the DNA etc. on it.

Cheers,
 Chris

First I believe you should check, but i think the Liberals were in power when it was cut?

There is no reason that most rivers on the lower mainland should not have active hatchery programs on them as in most cases they did, however the governments dropped them and in doing so said the were wild.
Well the Coquitlam has had hatchery steelhead from all over including the U.S. and in my mind calling this a wild run is just plain BS.
The Capilano should as well as where do you think the Steelhead will spawn?
Any river with a dam on it should be.
Just my thoughts. Some will disagree but the pressure on the Vedder and the Squamish needs to be lessened and allow people to spread out?


Second, Cutthroat are slim on the Island and I think that you should check the numbers that inch creek used to put out for cutts  on the mainland.
I believe that this program was cut and you might want to look into it.

There to my knowledge is little or no cutt hatchery programs going on as there used to be?

"O" by the way they ( THE PROVINCE) want more people fishing, but forgot about the fact that you need fish for this?

[Old Black Dog]

Robbie has got it right, however. The non-elected mandarines REALLY are the ones that slow the pace of change.  After that Chek hatchery fiasco where the bios made the Minister look like a fool, they should have all been demoted or removed--- didnt happen. That shows who REALLY runs the show.   

Ok...I have been reading this with great interest, and although I know very little about the politics of all this, I do feel strongly about the issues, and would like to educate myself on some of this...Can someone please elaborate on Schenley's Statement above? Non-elected mandarines? How did the bios make the minister look like a fool? What exactly was the fiasco? I attended the conference on cheakamus steelhead at ubc, I heard some of the debates concerning what could be done, from fisheries scientists and the rest...but as far as who REALLY runs the show, could someone shed some light on this?

I guess not many remember a number of years ago when the NDP under good old Moe was going to scrap the hatchery steelhead program. The FVSS launched a very large writing campaign sending in a few hundred letters, each in an individual envelope with a stamp on each. I know there was hundred's as my boys and I did all the licking of them. Also we took the letters to several sporting good outlets for those interested in signing and we ran up a few k's on the vehicle. We believe it helped as the changed there mind on it. This method is better than a petion I think. Of course if every one concern ed would write there own letter that is better but only a few will do this.

I would suggest if OBD and others have things they would like to see changed put together a form letter listing the shortfalls and soulutions as you see them. Circulate them to sporting good shops across the Province pick them up and send them in. If you wish to do this project I will deliver them to Barry personally if you wish.

Nothing better than taking some action instead of just taking about it on fishing forums or in the coffee shop.

There are many different factions trying to solve a problem here. I  understand from a "bio's" perspective many of the difficulties scientists face when presenting their findings to the powers that be...often their recommendations play second fiddle to personal agenda's, economic issues, red tape, etc, etc, etc...It is clear to me that even if there were someone in power that were able to weild said "hammer", getting half of those involved in the resource to agree on what needs to be done would be a task in itself. I am interested in seeing if even we can agree on what changes need to be made...there is this fine balance between what is good for the fish, and what allows the economy generated from them exist. I certainly agree it's all #$@$#$# up, however I don't see it as anywhere close to a solution. I like the idea of this letter Chris has mentioned, I think that the words in such letters can get into a person's head, might even influence how they think about the issue, and bring to light concerns that might otherwise have been overlooked...however, what would someone put in a letter such as this?
OBD, you make some interesting points, as do many of the others here, but I think perhaps tackling the problem amongst ourselves a bit first, might shed some light on how difficult it is to come to a solution. I wonder if we could start our own list of things we don't like, and then try to solve each item on that list considering the economic side of the issue and the conservation and enhancement side. It could be the start of a rough draft for a letter that many of us could write and send out. I know I would be willing to do so.
Having said that, if we can't agree on what the issues are, or come to solutions that we feel will be effective, even in the least bit, then how can we expect to be anything other than caught up in the same stagnant ineffective management dilemna that got us here in the first place?

I would like to try and list many of the issues at stake, if anyone is willing to oblige, as I think myself and others could learn quite a bit from hashing it all out here plain as day....

1) The fraser chum fishery...interference with steelhead returns to interior fraser tributaries. I agree this is a problem, but how do you solve it? First of all, it is not as simple as closing it down. The economic losses to commercial and native fleets cause such a powerful uproar that the ministry would never have the balls to do anything about it...but, I wonder, what nets do they use to harvest this fishery? Is there an alternative that has a less severe impact on Thompson steelhead, but still allows for the chum harvest? Might the government agree to some changes if such changes allow them to be proactive but don't hurt too much?

There, that's one issue, there are many others, and I am interested in trying to put a finger, or ten, on the issues at stake here...

thx,
rib

OK, start a thread with the questions you want to discuss and WE will all give it a go.

[Ribwart]

Second, Cutthroat are slim on the Island and I think that you should check the numbers that inch creek used to put out for cutts  on the mainland.
I believe that this program was cut and you might want to look into it.

Yes...inch creek has cut their production of cutthroat significantly compared to several years ago...

OK, start a thread with the questions you want to discuss and WE will all give it a go.

As far as starting a new thread goes...I asked some questions, and they were pertinent, if you feel like answering them that would be great, if you don't...or can't, that's great too...someone else can. 
Rib

[chris gadsden]

I am planning a formal meeting with Penner early in the New Year so if the people involved in this thread are interested in getting something going that I suggested above now is the time to start it as time passes quickly.

Further to this letter idea I need concrete evidence what they have done on certain rivers and what needs to be done to correct it.

Thanks