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Author Topic: No more sleep overs on the Chiliwack River.  (Read 9636 times)

Rodney

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Re: No more sleep overs on the Chiliwack River.
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2007, 12:33:10 AM »

Thanks Sam, some good points, which I will take into consideration of course.

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Is it not the responsibility of Recreational Users to keep themselves informed of changes as proposed by Regulatory Agencies? After all it's not that big a place is it?

Of course it is, but we can only inform ourselves if the information is made available. I receive regular email notifications from various agencies whenever changes need to be broadcasted, as they do recognize this website generates quite a bit of readership. Being one of the key contacts of the Chilliwack Vedder River Cleanup Coalition, which the Fraser Valley Regional District works with, I would have expected to be notified when consultation was taking place. Therefore I was both concerned and frustrated when the meeting minutes and a letter of support from the Ch-ihl-kway-uhk Tribe Society, were forwarded to us, not from the government agencies who are involved, but from the chair of the Upper Fraser Valley Sportfishing Advisory Committee.

My previous post was somewhat vague as I did it up in a hurry and tried to summarize it as swiftly as I could. My concern was mostly generated from the meeting minutes of this whole process, operated under the group "Nuisance Mitigation Committee". The whole process intends to solve the current problem that we are seeing, but at the same time it is pushing to limit access with whatever means possible.

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BTW-cyclists and walkers also use the river-for recreation.

That's why I stated "recreational users" instead of anglers, even though anglers make up the big percentile of all user groups.

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Something needed to be done it may not be perfect but should go a long way to protecting the river against damage.
So people will have to walk further-what's the big deal?
It's true that in the past a person could almost fish from their truck in some places but does anyone really think that convenience could last under the relentless pressure the CV system is under?
It is tough for handicapped users and maybe some allowance-barricaded access points like those on bike trails-should be made for them.

Speaking for myself, there is a self-interest behind whatever I get involved with. I would be a hypocrit if I deny it. In this case, there are two things that I dislike. The sight of the concrete block basically take away whatever scenery that one would see when driving up Chilliwack Lake Road. Not to speak for others, but it would ruin the whole experience for me. Secondly, we are not talking about having alternative parking locations that are further away. Previous existing parking spaces along the road, which caused no problem in the past, have been taken away. As a result, the amount of parking in one specific area is limited when there are no plans to accommodate the same amount of vehicles that will be accessing the area in the coming months. These restrictions are not giving people alternatives, therefore as some have suggested, they will simply push the problems elsewhere.

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The answers are simple-car pooling and private paid parking-which is common in other jurisdictions.

Again, it's an alternative that has not been presented in the planning. I would not mind, but sucks for those who cannot afford it.

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The old 'less eyes on the river' argument is specious at best and has never been proven.

Statistically unproven, so we can go back and forth on this with no agreement. Based on what we have experienced with this forum and the Chilliwack Vedder River Cleanup Coalition, I feel differently. People out there fishing at one specific spot, see a problem, report it either by posting it in here or emailing one of the directors, problem is then taken care of. The discovery of the tent city above Teskies Rock two years ago by several forum members is a good example of this.

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Nonsense and you weaken your post by including it.
Sunset is past 10 PM in June but not in August/September/October when the river is busiest.

What about July? ;) But I agree, it's a weak argument.

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Good Luck in putting your points across but what's done is done, if it means a tougher time for recreational anglers so be it.

It's never permanent because there is always room for improvement, at least that's what I believe in. If a compromise can be reached so quality of angling experience can still be maintained while achieving the goals of this process, then people should not sit back and say, "So be it."

I was going to forward this thread to those who are involved in the process as they usually are interested in reading feedbacks (yes, they do care), but I will not now. Quite a few replies are simply rants, a couple could be intepreted as rude if I was the one making the decision. Those comments would only hinder the process and damage what we are trying to achieve here. If you have ideas and concerns, express it in a presentable manner so people can actually bring them to those who can make a difference. As Sam and FA have stated, I don't have all the points, but they can be fine tuned once others show their view points. Chris is the main person who has set up the meeting. If you want to express your thoughts privately, you can email or PM him.

Sandy

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Re: No more sleep overs on the Chiliwack River.
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2007, 11:04:56 AM »

I fully understand the frustration of those who appreciate the rivers and countryside when you see the debris left from the weekenders . I despise the yahoos that leave there garbage at campsites, formal or not. maybee there would be less informal camping if there were more formal sites available.
question re: garbage : how much of it seems to be household ? I seem to see an awful lot of household stuff.   

.[/quote] It is tough for handicapped users and maybe some allowance-barricaded access points like those on bike trails-should be made for them.[/quote]

two of my family members have now been excluded from fishing by this action

 .[/quote]  Speaking for myself, there is a self-interest behind whatever I get involved with. I would be a hypocrit if I deny it. In this case, there are two things that I dislike. The sight of the concrete block basically take away whatever scenery that one would see when driving up Chilliwack Lake Road. Not to speak for others, but it would ruin the whole experience for me. Secondly, we are not talking about having alternative parking locations that are further away. Previous existing parking spaces along the road, which caused no problem in the past, have been taken away. As a result, the amount of parking in one specific area is limited when there are no plans to accommodate the same amount of vehicles that will be accessing the area in the coming months. These restrictions are not giving people alternatives, therefore as some have suggested, they will simply push the problems elsewhere..[/quote

my own thoughts pretty well mirror this, this has been an ill conceived , rushed , poorly thought out plan. and personally I will question the legality of this action. boundaries from municipal /private / crown land surveyed ?
who is legally responsible for safety and the upkeep of the barricades ?

« Last Edit: March 24, 2007, 11:23:25 AM by Sandy »
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If you care about Canada's future, get involved by holding your MLA's & MP's accountable!! don't just be sheep!!

Rodney

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Re: No more sleep overs on the Chiliwack River.
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2007, 05:28:42 PM »

The types of garbage found on the river are usually categorized into two groups - common litter and criminal garbage.

Common litter refers to the plastic cups, fishing lines and other small items that people have a tendency to drop or casually throw on the ground.


Keith Wilson Bridge, littering beside parked cars.

We have made great progress in tackling this problem by bringing awareness to the general public. Children who come out to the cleanups with their parents learn about the littering problem and make sure they don't make the same mistakes. We are starting to see less of this behaviour.

The biggest problem comes from criminal garbage, which people drive to the river, parking lots, trails, parks and intend to dump a large load of their garbage because they do not want to take responsibility. Criminal garbage can be bed frames, mattresses, furnitures, fridges, tires, cars, leftover hunting waste, illegal grow op equipment. It can also come from when a group finishes camping in one area and simply leaves everything they don't want behind (ie. couches, tents, etc). The area just below Tamahi was always problematic. Part of this problem is driven by the way our society is going. Why clean it up when it is cheaper to simply throw it away and purchase a new one right? Until we clean up our social problems, we will continue seeing the same criminal behaviour. The temporary solution to this is enforcement, which currently is close to none. As I brought up earlier, closure of access simply shifts the problem to another area, where it is still not enforced.


Mattress.


Dumping of leftovers of a duck hunt.


Dumping of sockeye salmon carcasses.


A pile of tires.


Aftermath of some camping at Tamahi.

Sandy

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Re: No more sleep overs on the Chiliwack River.
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2007, 07:14:16 PM »

maybe stiff fines ( multi thousands ) would make the policing more viable/lucrative to catch the wrong doers , as for the scum/pig slum campers, the stuff in the photo's only strenghthens the argument for pay camping and security patrols, unfortunatly the police are already stretched to thin to enable regular patrols.
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finding your limits is fun, it can also be VERY painful.

If you care about Canada's future, get involved by holding your MLA's & MP's accountable!! don't just be sheep!!

Bobber

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Re: No more sleep overs on the Chiliwack River.
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2007, 10:30:37 PM »

      Lets be honest, fisherman are their own worst enemies, we have all seen it, locals and like hiking in with their TIM HORTONS!!!, empty plastic bags of roe and cupcakes everywhere! Paid parking, I agree with the Nations then it would be easy to catch all the little shits that breakin to our vehicles, that way they would know where their kids are!!!
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2:40

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Re: No more sleep overs on the Chiliwack River.
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2007, 10:14:46 AM »

Almost looks like a no-win situation here.  :(

I took a drive yesterday evening and had a look. The blocks dont really look nice, and the graffiti that will soon adorn them wont improve their looks. But then again, big messy campsites and riparian damage due to trucks driving down to the water isnt nice either. With exception to the area in front of the houses at Edward's Rd and a part at Tamihi, parking has not been impacted 100%. For those who havnt seen it, dont think all parking areas in this section are gone as they are not. Most use of the blocks has been to prevent vehicles from leaving the road and driving into the campsites but have retained the ability to park vehicles.

I would agree that opening the times for parking would not impact the goal of targeting the people who are staying overnight while letting anglers and other users who are starting early or staying late not having to worry.

While these efforts target the campers during the summer who are a problem, a big part of the issue is not being addressed. This is a LACK OF ENFORCEMENT. Sure, the campers make a huge mess and cause a lot of damage, but day users are pretty bad as well. So the camping element of the abuse might be removed from the area up to the Tamihi, but the day use abuse will remain PLUS all these campers are just going to go up above Tamihi.

I guess they had to start somewhere so that in itself is good, but a big part is being left out when the ability/will to write tickets is little to none. I only hope that providing more enforcment and being prepared to focus on the big mess the upper Chilliwack will become will be top priority.
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I have a right to fish and a responsibility to treat this right as a privilege.

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blaydRnr

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Re: No more sleep overs on the Chiliwack River.
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2007, 01:41:54 PM »

it's like sweeping the problem under a rug.

they did it to appease the few. maybe the voters in that riding.

i heard tourism and inflow traffic from around the lower mainland account for 75% of the region's economy, so maybe the locals need to get off their high horse and try to resolve the problem with not just their own personal agenda, in mind.
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BigFisher

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Re: No more sleep overs on the Chiliwack River.
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2007, 01:51:01 PM »

Why doesnt the city hire a river patrol officer, someone who could hand out fines for campers, instead of blocking off the intire river!
Also signs declaring no camping and fines should have been posted up, which would probably scare away most campers. I just think its to bad that there first crack at stopping campers had to end up with the blocking off of the river.  :-\
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blaydRnr

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Re: No more sleep overs on the Chiliwack River.
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2007, 02:00:42 PM »

welcome to canada where we chastise the masses to apease the minority.

the minorities aren't the problem, it's the government's greed....they're constantly selling themselves out for the all-mighty dollar.   But that's a whole new topic and i don't want to hijack this thread.

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blaydRnr

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Re: No more sleep overs on the Chiliwack River.
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2007, 02:16:45 PM »

a simple solution to help eleviate some of the garbage, would be to place heavy duty garbage bins/cans at key areas, where there is heavy use/traffic.  this is already in place at some of the other major parks, why not the vedder?

here in richmond, along the fraser river, bins are placed at key entry points of any trail and/or river access point.

national parks like banff, yellowstone, etc. have this system in place also. so i guess it comes down to poor management, why else would the most obvious solution be overlooked?

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chris gadsden

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Re: No more sleep overs on the Chiliwack River.
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2007, 04:29:17 PM »

Members from the CVRCC and the Fraser Valley Salmon Society have now set a meeting date for this week with the District Recreational Officer, Ministry of Tourism, Sports and Arts to discuss this issue.

We have no problem with this action to deal with the garbage problem as we welcome it but are unhappy with the unsightly concrete blocks, possible loss of parking spots and the fact we were not asked to be involved in the consultation process.

Any further comments on this issue will be welcomed and encouraged.

BigFisher

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Re: No more sleep overs on the Chiliwack River.
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2007, 02:52:22 PM »

Hey does anyone know what was going on this morning at around 10 am on the Vedder, I saw a bunch of cars by the crossing and a group of 7 people with 1-2 fisheries officers. Also just up the road guys were putting no camping signs for 11am- 4pm? does that mean people can camp after 4 pm?  ???
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Re: No more sleep overs on the Chiliwack River.
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2007, 08:44:57 PM »

Its really sad that once again the few irresponsible who leave a mess and dont respect nature, now have succeeded in getting everyone banned from camping. Punish the people who leave the garbage not those who respect and care about being a no trace camper. Several years ago I donated monies to help preserve the river and build the groins around the slide prone aeras of the river but this will be the last time . Politicans only dance around these issues they dont solve the problems those that dont care to respect the environment will simply go elsewhere and soon too we will be banned from there as well. A typically Canadian way to deal with things.
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chris gadsden

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Re: No more sleep overs on the Chiliwack River.
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2007, 11:28:49 PM »

Hey does anyone know what was going on this morning at around 10 am on the Vedder, I saw a bunch of cars by the crossing and a group of 7 people with 1-2 fisheries officers. Also just up the road guys were putting no camping signs for 11am- 4pm? does that mean people can camp after 4 pm?  ???
11 pm to 4am I believe it should read no parking between these times.

Rodney

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Re: No more sleep overs on the Chiliwack River.
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2007, 12:16:18 AM »

Hey does anyone know what was going on this morning at around 10 am on the Vedder, I saw a bunch of cars by the crossing and a group of 7 people with 1-2 fisheries officers.

That was a meeting between representatives of the Fraser Valley Salmon Society, Chilliwack Vedder River Cleanup Coalition, Chilliwack River Action COmmittee and the District Recreation Officers, discussing the exact issue.