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Sporting

20 (29%)

Harvest for any species of salmon

5 (7.2%)

Snagging

19 (27.5%)

Harvest but only for Sockeye

17 (24.6%)

Dont care I'll do what ever is in the regs that gives me the best chance to catch a fish regardless if it bites or not.

8 (11.6%)

Total Members Voted: 66

[firstlight]

Chris its good to have you guys going to bat for the fish and all but im starting to wonder what this game is all about?
You mention that you had a meeting and that there were reps from fisheries there.
Did anyone tell them that there wording of notices about selective methods really sucks.
They are the ones playing the game here as they dont have the balls to say what needs to be said.
NO BOTTOM BOUNCING is what they should have in the regs and not a wishy washy notice thats asks the fishermen to play nice and use selective methods.

I agree with an earlier poster who said that fisheries just loves to see us fighting among ourselves over something that to me is a cut and dry issue.
Bottom bouncing is snagging and snagging is illegal.Period.

[Steelhawk]

If flossing is snagging according to DFO, then why no tickets were issued? Do you ever think that DFO is ever kind to offenders? They jump you with fines in no time if you fish with no valid license, with barbed hook, or any other violations in their book. Come on, wake up. You guys are taking interpretation of the DFO 'holy book' to the extreme in this area that even DFO does not intend to read it this way.  We have debated this point like million times before so there is no need to debate further on it. I know what happen when extremists take some holy books of the world to a narrow and extreme view to fit their own political agenda - intolerance, hatred, war and violence. I understand and respect the sincere intent of some distinguished individuals who belong to the anti BB group. They care about fish resources and fishing methods. But if DFO allows the practice of flossing, why is it that you folks don't have the open mind to respect and accept other's choice of legal fishing method. Fish in peace. Don't defame and belittle your fellow fishermen, many of them care for fish resources and fishing environment just like you.

This is for those who has the open mind - fish a bar near Hope yesterday with two greenies in the afternoon. First trip of the year for me and their first in life. Chris is right in the good # of springs caught though we may be on a different bar. The river much be loaded with them now.  I had a 44lb giant on and fought for 45 minutes to land it. Then came back to coach the greenie with a better presentation and he hooked and landed a 34lber. He felt out of the world. Sure happy to see a face worth a million. Saw another 5 others landed but much smaller in the teens.  I don't think I will report our springs with photos, just so that some of you will not be infuriated more. I| am beginning to think that this web site is so dominated with vocal  and influential anti bbing members that I will gradually fade out my writings on this site and find another more open-minded site, so there will be more peace for both me and others. This kind of infighting with name calling and labelling is so hurtul and dividing that is not necessary for the fishermen brotherhood. Leave the fishing rules to the DFO and there will be much more peace in fishing community.

Just fish in peace. Be kind to your fellow fishermen. The real threat to fish stocks are not us who fish with one barbless hook and one rod, and who just try to get a fresh fish home to bless their families, not by $10 bill, but by their hard fought tired body. Turn your energy to the natives and their potent drift nets & their illegal poaching. Their potent fishing method plus their tendency to defy DFO will decimate fish stocks. If caring for fish resources is your concern, that is where you can do much good for the fish. Perhaps chain yourself to a native boat heading out to defy DFO....

By the way, their was not a single sockeye hooked in our entire bar, for the entire 7 hours we were there. (The last greenie could not hook his fish so we gave up finally after 7 hours). Relax, we are not the threat to the early Stuarts. Go to the reserve to protest them. They will be the one to wipe out that stock.

[firstlight]

Justify it by any means you feel necessary.
Its snagging.
PS you wont find another site that is more tolerant with flossers than this one and i dont envy Rod at this time of year when this topic comes up time after time.
As long as this subject is around you can bet to see my name somewhere in the mix because iv e stood against this practice since the first years it was introduced.
Its simply wrong wrong wrong and if telling yourself that because DFO doesnt enforce it makes it ok then keep telling yourself that it must be ok to do.

[Rodney]

[Steelhawk]

Yesterday I talked to a fisher next to me about internet forums. He admitted that he was a former member but was so offended by comments made by some members here that it turned him off. Too bad our mods are letting people here to label, name call, and attack other fishers on the forum. Any reference to bbing as snagging or calling bbers as snaggers should be warned or his post edited. These are offensive comments because people are fishing a method allowed by DFO, like it or not. So if you don't like to eat sushi, does it give you right to trash people who do as barbarians eating raw meat, for example?  Just because you don't like flossing does not give you the right to make offensive comments about bbers whose method is allowed by DFO, who authors the reg. book and knows more about their rules than any anti-floss person. Until DFO officially outlaw flossiing, no one has the right to be the holier than thou judge. You can harbour your opinion or discuss things civilly, but when trashing of bbing occurs publicly in a fishing forum, the mods should caution these posters, otherwise the forum are turning off people. I say if you have a strong opinion against bbing, there is another site which claims this as part of their mission. At least we can choose not to be a part of that site. It is important for a site to claim what it stands for and take action when some one crosses the line.  When the term Snagging is used against bbers, the posters should be warned that DFO has not determined that flossing is snagging and that such reference is not welcome. This site is known to be fair & inclusive. However, I am afraid the anti-floss group is taking over because their offensive comments go unchecked. Too bad. It seems the old Oliver of fishbc (whom has been warned often there) is now here having a free hand to trash and bash bbers    I wish some of these bb trashers will go into a PETA or flyfishing forums and promote the art of bar-fishing, then take all the offensive comments thrown in their way, to come to term what they are doing to the bbers.

[Rodney]

[2:40]

According to you its illegal, but according to the people that right the rules in the synopsis over ride what you think..

One, ok two, of the biggest achivements in this annual debate could be as follows:

1) To admit that this 'bottom bouncing' is snagging (sorry Steelhawk, but a rose by any other name smells just as sweet, dont want to be called a snagger? Quit doing it!   )

2) To realize that this form of SNAGGING is currently impossible to regulate. This doesnt mean it ISNT snagging, it only means it isnt ENFORCABLE. It's snagging through and through and carries the same problems snagging with a triple hook brings. Actually, 'flossing' snagging brings a new deminsion of problems because it isnt currently ENFORCEABLE.

You guys wont be able to hide behind the "It's legal" game much longer and since I see no other excuses/reasons/justifications given to snag fish during our yearly debates on the topic, it could be interesting!  

Ill throw in a third:

3) To understand that MOST of this concern isnt about harvest numbers in general, but to what it brings to SPORT angling. While correct to have concerns about drift nets, dont bring those in and try to cloud this important topic with it.

Rodney's doing a great job. You'll never please them all no matter how hard one tries.

[Geff_t]

Yup soon the river will be shut down to all because of the crusade of a select few and if you think that that will not happen then keep   . Like you said it is too hard to enforce. If you have information to back your be littleing of the bbing 2:40 then why do you not put the proofe out for all to see or are you going to hide behind a document that does not exist.
 

[Steelhawk]

2:40 thinks the world of fishing has to follow what he thinks and nothing else justifies, even DFO intention on their rules. You talk like you are the spokesman of DFO. Ya, why not get a job there to make your hallucination come true. Not Enforceable? Dreaming... DFO officers were in all the popular flossing bars checking licenses and barbed hooks while fish were landed left & right of them. They never bother to examine the hook on its exact location of the mouth, which they can do so easily if they define snagging as you do. So are you accusing DFO personnel as ignorant of their rules, incompetent or lazy? Why not go to them to tell them that? Good luck. 

We all know sometimes when a person is brain washed, nothing else will matter. When I said in an earlier post that fish were netted, trapped, speared or shot all over the world with no one questioning its ethics, you just summariily brush it off to say it is irrelevant without anything to back up your argument. Why? a foreign fish is not a fish? That fishing ethics is owned by you and a few bar-fishers here in BC? That is blatant arrogance, trying to dictate your narrow definition of fishing ethics to many many people who come from very different background. DFO makes the rules, not you, nor you are their spokesman. Say what you want, but back it up with sound reasons, otherwise your statement is just hallow and biased.l
 
By the way Rod, apolgize to put you on the spot. You didn't start the thread to discuss ethics of fishing. I have full empathy on your tough position trying to balance the needs of both camps on this issue. You have always been the cool-headed guy. Stay cool & neutral. But I think when some one is making repeated offensive statement when the matter is a grey area, it is worthwihile to caution posters (too bad it takes too much time though). I stand to be cautioned if my response to 2:40 is a bit too personal. But only acting in self-defence because of his repeated attacks on us. Sorry. 

[Steelhawk]

Or just say NO SPORTS FISHING to be fair. When a bar rig is thrown to the sockeye travel lane, its chance off hooking a sockeye is not any less than those of us targeting springs in the strong deep flow this early part of the season. I support closing the river to all in the last weeki of July until sockeye opening. This will be fair to all and not a single sockeye will be hooked by anyone except those natives who will defy DFO no matter what.

To the extent that bbing in the early season does not really hook into socs much, the bbers should be given their rights to target springs just like the bar fishers. Forcing people to bar-fish is to say that if you live in town w/o a boat, you have no share of the springs, because you will not find a  good shore-based spot to bar fish as the locals claim those spots at first light. The trips are a waste of time & money. This has been my experience and many others.

[DionJL]

Steelhawk: If a fish doesn't bite, yet you still hook it what do you call that?

I think Rodney does a great job. Although I'd like to see him show some balls and come out with a post describing exactly where he stands on the topic. 

[Rodney]

I'd like to see him show some balls...

My stand on the issue is expressed at where changes can take place. The discussion forum is a great place to inform and be informed, but trying to make annonymous individuals believe in where I stand is not effective. The best one can do is to provide all the information, let others make up their own mind.

[firstlight]

First of all if anybody deserves warning bars it is those that have taken it upon themselves to name 2;40 outright and point at him.
Nobody has gotten personal other than those people and as far as i am concerned i blanket all BB,ers with the same brush.
I have buddies that do it and thats there choice.
This is not me against you.
This is me against bottom bouncing .
At first those that did it swore that they were actually hooking these biting fish because the hook was in the mouth.
Now that everyone agrees that the hook is catching/snagging the fish and not the fish biting the hook they say it is a harvest.
Somehow now it is supposed to be ok for fishers to BB for Chinook.
Come on people,just because there are fish in the river it doesnt mean that we can harvest them with any method we choose.
What ever happened to waiting for the right conditions for a fish to be able to actually see a lure?
It seems as though we have been caught up in a time when we think these fish are for harvesting and nothing to do with sport or enjoying your time on the water.
A right to harvest our share  so to speak.
Sad times indeed.

[Steelhawk]

Firstlight, 2:40 has repeatedly name me in prior posts. So, are you so biased as to not even spot that? Funny how people only read what they want to read.
So, as this debate is getting personal, it is time for me to stop. You think your position can affect those of us who believe in bringing a fish home with a method allowed by DFO and that we have to bend to your narrorw view about fishing, don't waste time. We don't think we are convincing you die heart anti flossers either. We are trying to talk to the lurkers who are confused, or to prevent individuals to become bb haters as you folks try to do. It affects the united purpose of fishermen brotherhood. If any individual think flossing is snagging, be my guest. We  won't miss you in the crowded bar. Stay away. We and DFO do not share such interpretation,  so we will enjoy our fishing regardless what you think.

I will restate my position - I support closing the river to all users from last week of July until Sockeye opening, and I support the restriction of leader length to smaller systems like the Vedder.

Well,, I think enough said and time to retire to my fishing in peace. Enjoy the summer guys.  No response forth coming. Rodney will have an easier job if every one backs off a bit.  

[Nuggy]

Snagging should have no place in sports fishing. I went out flossing sockeye last season for the first time ever and proved to myself that it definitely was snagging a fish and not enticing a fish bite. If you want to snag fish and bend the fishing regulations that is your choice...but don`t be surprised when you are called to the plate for being a fish snagger.

I know a person who snags with big lead weights and triple hooks, he has been doing this his whole long life. I don`t rat on him to the authorities and I don`t hold it against him. Even if he was caught and charged he would still go snagging...it`s in his blood for some reason. I look at flossers the same way, you might as all just use big lead weights and triple hooks and rip the water with it. It would probably be more effective than flossing and at least you would be a true out and out snagger, not someone bending the regulations a bit and then getting upset your type of fishing method is getting picked on...Like it was ever really a legit means of sport fishing in the first place.

Thanks for letting this thread go on Rodney, many of us despite our points of view will wind up fishing together through out the season on different waters, I personally don`t hold any grudges with any of the posters in the thread and always look forward to meeting folks on the flow.

Cheers

Nuggy