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Sporting

20 (29%)

Harvest for any species of salmon

5 (7.2%)

Snagging

19 (27.5%)

Harvest but only for Sockeye

17 (24.6%)

Dont care I'll do what ever is in the regs that gives me the best chance to catch a fish regardless if it bites or not.

8 (11.6%)

Total Members Voted: 66

[Tee]

Tee, have you ever barfished? You're right, there isnt 100% avoidance of sockeye, but even in prime conditions, they are hard to catch. In muddy water it is hard enough to catch a spring never mind a sockeye. Dont drag bar fishing into it. DFO is rightfully targeting snagging, not bar fishing. If things progressed where bar fishing was an issue, they'd make a request on that as well and I would abide by it.

As the matter of fact, yes I have. Don't get me wrong that I tried to pick on bar fishing. I just wanted to point out that no matter what method you use in water conditions like the Fraser river, if there is a school of fish travelling through where you fish, there will be a good chance that some fish will intercept your line or even your hook if unlucky. To me, there is no such proven methods that do not catch sockeyes as DFO has requested in the notice. Thus, if intercepting the early run sockeye is a concern, shuting down the river to all users seems to be more proven in my opinion.

[Steelhawk]

Oh the experienced bbers are superfishers? Them most of us who are targeting June & early July springs can claim that title. We are talking this time period in which hooking sockeyes as a by catch is just rare, at least in the bars that I fish. I admit that closer to August, some socs are hooked and more daily, but I believe that these are now the early runners of the main run. We know, most of these fish are smallish, not the beautiful large early Stuarts. Towards August, even bar rigs thrown at the travel lane of the sockeyes are catching the socs. So should we say, we close the river late July until socs are open. All rods off the water, period. That will be fair because bar rigs are not exempt from hooking sockeyes. Imagine the poor socs having to fight a lb of lead....

Ah, it is ethics that you are talking about. That is the main evil or venom between the two groups of fishers. Using snagging repeatedly to describe our craft shows total disrespect for other people's choice of fishing method. Somewhere in the world, some 'religious' group are killing off others because they cannot tolerate others choosing a different way to worship, even slightly different. Intolerance plus progpaganda means hatred and violence.... If this happens to the Fraser, I know we bbers will lose out to the 'dozers'  or 'beerers' (sorry we have to label back when you use 'snaggers' on us, just being fair) because they can fire their 1lb lead balls at us when we can only fire back with 2-4 oz.....

I say, fish in peace, as my avitar suggest. If our preferred way to fish is doing insignficant damage to the early Stuarts, then all arguments are purely ethics based. Ah, but then, who are you to tell me that you are more ethical, and why should we be bent to your way of fishing. We will defend our rights to fish. Most of us old-timer bbers have bar-fished before. I still have those egg-size glos and 1lb leads plus the big bar rod in my garage. Yes, been there, done that. Boring, dozy, laid back, ineffiective,passive,...., that is all I can say. By the way, perhaps I will fish this laid-back way when I am much older, if that will please you guys of the bar-shing fraternity.   

By the way, if you are not locals or rich enouch to afford a boat plus a towing vehicle, your chance to secure a spot in a shore-based bar for bar-shing is very unlikely. Spent all that gas, drive all that far, leaving your family for all that time, just ending up having not a spot to fish. Have tried that before and give up to the locals.      So, for us city folks who don't have a boat, to fish by their way is another way of saying to the bbers that they stay home and watch TV or shop in the malls with your ladies (not that it is a bad thing  ) and leave the springs to their exclusive group.... Wow, I thought Canadians are a fair people. 

[Nicole]

Yes, been there, done that. Boring, dozy, laid back, ineffiective,passive,...., that is all I can say.

You've said it, ineffective.... That what is sporting about it.

Bottom bouncing with anything more than 2 feet of leader is flossing. Period.

How much leader do you use?

Cheers,
Nicole

[Steelhawk]

I am not debating our dear beloved lady fisher of the forum. 

Sorry Nicole I won't ask how much lead you are using or polluting the river....

Not worth debating ethics with any bar-fishers, let alone a lady. 

All I say is, close the river to all sporties and let the natives do their raping of the socs  (because DFO cannot enforce rules on them) toward August. Fair and square.

[Geff_t]

I have also done bar fishing and last year I thought that it was time to take my 5 year old to show him how it is done. We left the house in the AM and headed east along hwy 7. As we do not own a boat we had to look for a bar that we could drive too. I can't remember how many bars we ended up going too but not a single bar was free to bar fish. Not only was I dissapointed but my son was as well that we did not have the opportunity to fish.  So until they say that bb'ing is illegal it is the only method at this time that people can do unless they own a boat. Sorry that is just the facts.

[liketofish]

Steelhawk, you are a gentleman but I am a rough neck so I will debate the lady. 

Hmmm, sporting means looking for difficulties or challenges in fishing. I don't know if many people can agree with you there lady.

There are those who will say to you that you should only catch & release, otherwise you are a meat fisherman. There are those elitists who think your heavy bar rods and lead are not fair to the fish. There are those elite flyfishers who think your way is not an art form of fishing.  There are those who think you are being cruel to the fish by your violence towards another life form on this planet..... So where do we begin to evalue ethics of fishing? 

If flossing is allowed by DFO because no one has been ticketed for doing it, so be it. That is good enough for me. A biting fish does not feel better when it is on the dinner plate than a flossed fish...   

[lucky]

 This whole debate is very hard for me to grasp, I cannot believe the lack of respect for each other the two sides have. Back when living in Ontario every spring a local stream would flood the farm lands leaving northern pike trapped in shallow waters. In Ontario spearing pike is LEGAL, and we used to spear them while wading around in crotch deep water, although not catching the fish by a line this was still very sporting to us as you had to be really quiet and sneak up on the fish hiding in the weeds. On any given day there may be other anglers trying to catch pike on the river beside us by casting spoons, we would wave and ask them if they had any luck. There were no hard feelings between the users groups, and the spear fisherman were not looked down on by others because they choose to legally harvest fish with a spear. I know that if anyone approached me on the river and called me a snagger or spoke down to me that things would probably end in violence, and that is the last thing we need on the river.

[Nicole]

I am not debating our dear beloved lady fisher of the forum. 

Sorry Nicole I won't ask how much lead you are using or polluting the river....

Not worth debating ethics with any bar-fishers, let alone a lady. 

All I say is, close the river to all sporties and let the natives do their raping of the socs  (because DFO cannot enforce rules on them) toward August. Fair and square.

Heh! You know I'm totally ok with some debate, that's all it is...

If we saw each other on the river, I would have have a laugh about it with you... I just debating, you won't hurt my feelings.

To answer your question, I give alot of flies and gear to the river, but I pocket old line, and pack other people's garbage off the river. And yes there's probably a few pounds of lead down there somewhere, courtesy of me

And yes some of that lead is in the form of betties, I floss during sockeye season. I have no problem admitting that.

During spring season, we anchor the boats and fish spin n' glos with 16 inches of leader. I like seeing them hit the rod, and having to run over to set the hook. And if you miss that fish, so what. You can talk about how hard it hit...

I'm not sure yet if I want to participate in the sockeye opening, that fishery brings out the worst in me, so I think I may sit on the sidelines this year.

Sockeye sure are tasty though!
Nicole

[Nicole]

This whole debate is very hard for me to grasp, I cannot believe the lack of respect for each other the two sides have. Back when living in Ontario every spring a local stream would flood the farm lands leaving northern pike trapped in shallow waters. In Ontario spearing pike is LEGAL, and we used to spear them while wading around in crotch deep water, although not catching the fish by a line this was still very sporting to us as you had to be really quiet and sneak up on the fish hiding in the weeds. On any given day there may be other anglers trying to catch pike on the river beside us by casting spoons, we would wave and ask them if they had any luck. There were no hard feelings between the users groups, and the spear fisherman were not looked down on by others because they choose to legally harvest fish with a spear. I know that if anyone approached me on the river and called me a snagger or spoke down to me that things would probably end in violence, and that is the last thing we need on the river.

Hey do you have any good ways to cook pike? I have one in my freezer and I want to eat it soon, but I'm not sure the best way to cook the thing. email me nicole@dotaku.com to take this offline if you like...

Thanks!
Nicole

[2:40]

Using snagging repeatedly to describe our craft shows total disrespect for other people's choice of fishing method.

Im sorry, but a spade's a spade.

I do appreciate the "fish in peace" ideal though. 

All other comments since that I see can be answered in my previous posts so I wont repeat them. 

[Arnie]

Well, after checking out the messages for about a year on this site without posting I figured it might be time to chime in. Not simply to perpetuate a tired argument but to simply lend a perspective. I watched the thread re: bb'ing(flossing) on the board last year, and there were some good arguments and very well thought out posts. However there were also some very questionable perspectives. I've been fishing nearly since I could walk, and I guess I'm what you could call a true "die-hard". I fish year round, I chase nearly every species our waters have to offer. I fly fish, drift fish, bar fish, toss spoons, troll, plunk or whatever else it may take to "entice a fish to strike", and I consider myself fairly experienced. I worked in the sportfishing industry in a couple of different capacities, and worked on both government, and private fish habitat restoration programs. I've also taken part in numerous fisheries related protests over the years. Anyways I digress.... What I've witnessed over the last few years in lower mainland fishing is actually quite alarming, and frankly from someone that has spent countless hours in piscatorial pursuits, I might even say it's depressing. I remember very well, when flossing gained it's popularity. It was exciting because there was finally a way to catch these wily sockeye, and let's face it they're a heck of a lot of fun to catch. Everybody got out there and tried it out, and we( Heck yeah I WAS a flosser), had tons of fun. The excitement however did not last so long for many of us, once it became inherently obvious that these fish just weren't biting. They were being snagged. Just kinda took the fun out of it, and it sure adds insult to injury watching a few gorgeous springs being dragged in, snagged in the fin...or back...or belly....and many of them bonked. What really turned me off was the attitude of some participants, fights etc., and the disregard for rules and fishing ethics. Whether it's the way individuals treat one another on the river, or the way they treat their catch, there's no doubt it has entered a downward spiral since flossing gained it's place at the forefront of lower mainland fishing opportunities. As the number of fishing participants rises(and it sure seems busier year after year), there seems to be a genuine influx(on nearly every body of water) of people that just don't understand what fishing is about, and seem to lack proper etiquette. Sorry to say it but I do think the sockeye fishery is largely responsible for it. BB'ing(with a leader longer than 24in) has no place on the Fraser for springs....'cause they will bite using proper methods, and it surely has no place on any river other than the Fraser. I guess a BB'ing opening for sox, simply for harvesting purposes may be worthwhile. There is NO way to "selectively" floss, and unfortunately it is not a good practice when endangered fish of any type are in the system. But let's not forget, FISHING: the art of catching a fish by enticing it to bite, has never been easy but anybody can learn the tricks of the trade and catch their FAIR share too. Just takes time. Along the way though, you must also care for the resource, and embrace the etiquette and methods that made fishing a passion for all of us in the first place. Sorry for the rant and I know many of these points have posted already....but we've got to address the issues facing sportfishing today properly in order to protect it for the future.

Cheers,

Arnie

[4x4]

Really good post Arnie.

[Nicole]

Yes, great post Arnie, your view on things is echoed by many experienced anglers out there... It's a real shame where things have gone... I think given what we know now, if we could go back in time, there never would have been a fight to open sockeye in the first place...

Things were pretty good until this happened, I'd be happy to let the sockeye opening go if it restored the sanity... In a heartbeat.


Nicole

[liketofish]

As much as I respect your background, experiences and care for the fish resources, Arnie, ethics on fishing, particularly legal fishing method, is a personal thing. Debates on this have been done over & over again, so it is useless to repeat it. Just scroll back to last years & search, you will find enough points from both camps. Rants as you may, but so can we bottom bouncers rant about the holier than thou gang and the hostilities created between groups.

Your background and your reasoning for justification of fishing method may not be shared by everyone. All over the world, fish are trapped, netted, speared and what have u without people getting angry over it. This ethics thing is highly personal, political, spiritual and regional. We just saw here earlier a video link showing fishermen shooting arrows to leaping carps, and no one complain about its ethics. Even US TV news are showing the clips and no one think it is unethical.

So if flossing is allowed by DFO and legal, so be it. Don't like it, just do something else. Life is too short. For me and other bouncers, we are at peace with our fishing method, respect it. If there are more fishermen now, good. Let's share the bounties of the sea to those who want to catch them by themselves. It is better than sockeye lovers buying from natives, which will encourage more poaching and raping the fish resources from that group.

If the fear is that newbies will bottom bounce in smaller system, DFO can always restrict leader length for streams other than the Fraser. Their rules are usually stream-by-stream any way. That should ease your fear. Cheer. 

[Big Steel]

To answer your question, I give alot of flies and gear to the river, but I pocket old line, and pack other people's garbage off the river. And yes there's probably a few pounds of lead down there somewhere, courtesy of me

And yes some of that lead is in the form of betties, I floss during sockeye season. I have no problem admitting that.

I'm not sure yet if I want to participate in the sockeye opening, that fishery brings out the worst in me, so I think I may sit on the sidelines this year.

Sockeye sure are tasty though!
Nicole

I wasn't going to post on this again, but...
 Do you some of you people seriously believe that just because someone bounces that they don't care about the fishery, garbage, or ethics?
  My firends and I have spent many hrs cleaning up line and the mess left on the bars.  We also get our limit of fish, and leave.  But not before filling a garbage bag with whatever we can find. I remember last year after sockeye was closed down in early September, Chris and I went to do a clean up of one of the bars.  We went and set up the bar rods then wondered the whole bar looking for garbage and were quite impressed by the lack of garbage we were able to find.
 In Spring season (June and Early July) we get our one Spring and go home.  It isn't about numbers.  To those that don't believe that you can actually target spring over sockeye, have you ever been out and tried it, or are you just making a broad assumption?  I am not saying that it is 100% affective, but if you know what to look for you can drastically cut down your chances of hooking a sockeye.  I know this is going to go in one ear and out the other, so I don't really have much more to say on the subject.
  Nicole, I am a bit surprised at you so loudly opposing Bouncing as you do it yourself.  Don't use the line that you only do it in Sockeye season.  You can't have your cake and eat it to...  If you are so opposed to it, then why do you do it? 
  Just for the record, if you use the right gear and know how to quickly work yourself out of snags, you won't deposit much gear in the river.  I always come home with more than I left with...

Just my 2 cents.
Cheers.