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Sporting

20 (29%)

Harvest for any species of salmon

5 (7.2%)

Snagging

19 (27.5%)

Harvest but only for Sockeye

17 (24.6%)

Dont care I'll do what ever is in the regs that gives me the best chance to catch a fish regardless if it bites or not.

8 (11.6%)

Total Members Voted: 66

[bbronswyk2000]

Now instead of turning this into a debate why not let this post be about numbers.

[2:40]

I promised myself I would never let this or any other debate get personal/ugly again and that's where it seems to be heading. So Im going to stand by my previous posts that have many unanswered questions/comments and cover all the comments in the previous posts too. Ill continue my efforts that hold the best chance of bringing about change to maintain angling for what it was and was intended to be. Just in case anyone's worried.  

Thanks to all for the 9 1/2 pages of healthy discussion.  

Thanks Firstlight.  

Nicely said on the last paragraph Nuggy. 

[Nuggy]

Nuggy, what the hell are you talking about

Flossing, Bottom Bouncing is not illegal so how is someone BENDING THE REGULATIONS

BENDING THE REGULATIONS is letting this perosn you know use a treble hook.

FLOSSING FISH IS LEGAL IF IT WASNT DFO WOULD BE HANDING OUT TICKETS AND THERE NOT !!!!

how is this bending the regulations..

Freak...you know the answer to your own question just like many who are reading and or replying. It is your choice to do what you wanna do.

I am not telling you what to do, you wouldn`t listen to me anyways

These are the facts as I know them to be true.

1. Flossing a fish is not an attempt at enticing the fish to bite your offering. The line slides through the fishes mouth and *snags* the fish in various parts of the body including the mouth with the hook. Because of a loophole in the regulations flossing/snagging fish is currently allowed.

2. Sport Fishing heritage in B.C has nothing to do with snagging. It is a tradition handed down of different varieties of angling that has a main objective to entice a fish to bite at your natural or artificial presentation on the end of a Rod and line.

I am not a preacher here and I`m not stopping anyone from flossing.

Nuggy

[Geff_t]

Well said freak . Does fly fishing a nymph pattern count as bottom bouncing as you use micro shots to tick the bottom to present the fly properply. This method does entice a fish (trout) to bite so for this I vote for sport. If you mean the fraser then I would vote for harvest. I guess bottom bouncing means so many things I guess DFO would have to define what it is before they can dem it illegal. I hope that the document that so many people have been working on defines it properly before they say that my methods of nymph fishing is illegal or the methods they use on other systems to entice a fish to bite.

[Big Steel]

The longer DFO can keep us fishermen fighting against each other the better for them.  This way, we will never focus all of attention on the real issues with the fishery.  Don't ask me to name them they have been brought up time and time again in this thread.
  The notice recommending a selective fishery has such a wide margin for error who knows what they are really talking about.  I know that this will once again fall on deaf ears, but oh well.  Today I went out, selected a spot that I know from years experience has not produced sockeye in the early season.  I fished for about 10 min, caught a 22 lb spring and then sat in the boat and when bored from that, I wondered around.  This fish was caught pretty much exactly where I figured it would be and not on a 20' leader either.  This is the way I fish selectively.  Not one sockeye was hooked or even seen, but we did see a nice Spring clear water right where he should have, and was no where near anyplace one with any experiece fishing early spring would have looked for a Sockeye.
 So say what you want, I know, along with others that I fish with that it is possible to fish for Springs and not catch a sockeye if you know what you are doing and where to go.  This will be the last I post on this thread.  I just don't get it.  It baffles me as to how so many fishermen can bash other fishermen for the way they fish all the while stepping back from and ignoring real issues that are actually having and impact on the fishery.  Wake up.  If The Salmon stocks fall it won't be because of the sport fishery.  Or will it, because we faught against each other instead of uniting to work on the real problems.

[firstlight]

Dave ,this is a sport fishing forum and thats why i post what i do.
It wouldnt make any sense talking about Native and Commi fishing here as it isnt a Native or Commercial fishing site.
We should police ourselves before pointing fingers at other groups.
The Chinook fishery is taking a huge beating with this fishery and its not only about the Sockeye.

It used to be that when the river was unfishable it meant just that.
When your snagging fish it really doesnt matter on the colour of the river.

I also dont think that fish caught by this method should become part of fishing reports because it isnt sportfishing in my eyes.Just harvesting,what ever the heck thats supposed to mean.

[bbronswyk2000]

Here I told myself I wasnt going to get involved and here I go. I really dont have a problem with the sockeye fishery anymore, I just believe it needs to be done as an actual harvest and the laws should be changed to reflect that. I do however have a problem with people flossing springs. Springs are 'Willing" biters. Their is no need to floss them. They will actively take a spin n glo, bait, or lures. Why try and snag them when you can get them to bite? Is it because you dont want the "sport" in sportfishing? What is so wrong with going out for a day of fishing and actually not catching anything? Is that so terrible? These are actual questions. I am very curious why people who call themselves sport fishermen want to target species who are known biters.

This is the biggest reason I am not into the upper Fraser river or the Vedder. I am more into lake fishing and fishing the lower Fraser river. One, you dont get the crowds and two their is no chance of confrontation. I doubt I will even go barfishing this year. I will fish for sturgeon, pinks, coho and chum all on the lower river ( as well as fly fish for coho on some tributaries of the Fraser on the fly ). When I am not fishing for those species I am on an interior lake enjoying myself catching beautiful triploids.

I agree with you firstlight, flossing should not really be put into a fishing report since its not sporting.

[Steelhawk]

I stated not to response to a debate on the flossing issue, but this is not about flossing, it is about sharing my observation after fishing sockeyes since it began years ago. Nuggy seems to be a real nice guy. You fish one year for sockeyes and you already make a affirmative statement that sockeye don't bite on the Fraser. I beg to differ. If sockeyes elsewhere bite, why shouldn't it be in the Fraser. It is water clarity problem. But if the water clears up later, the water is greenish and is clear enough for sockeye to see to bite.

I am at peace with flossing so I am not particular about this issue. However, I observe many sockeyes I hooked in later season were squarely inside the mouth when I bounced by releasing line slowly so the lead move straight down along a sockeye travel lane. Do not swing across. To do this you need heavy lead to stay down, like 3 or even 4oz. This is like traditional bottom bouncing. The only problem is that doing this means betty suicide in most snaggy bars. The only bar safe enough to do this is the notoriously crowded lower Peg Leg. It is practically snag free there, probably because it is available to the masses only late in the season. Try shorter leader if you like. But with the strong current and highly irratic bouncing, longer leader will moderate the irratic action of the wool making easier for sockeye to bite. The straight down presentation will cut down flossing if that is what you fear. Give it a shot if you are still open minded about trying bb for biting sockeyes. For others, the mere mentioning of bb for sockeye is already a taboo. So if you are close minded about sockeye fishing, then I respect your decision. I won't want to debate this biting or not biting issue. This is my experience & observation. Your experience can be different. If you are fishing by holding your line for an arc swing resulting in the conclusion that sockeyes do not bite, then I respect that. You can always release the 'foul hooked' fish. This is no different from float fishing or even flyfishing. There is always the chance for this when fish are highly concentrated. Give it a try if you love those delicious sockeyes and have not been totally brain-washed about sockeye fishing. One caution though, time your drift so those short casters don't end up casting right on your line because your line does not swing back in.

Sorry I will not respond to any more ethics debate, so anti guys don't even try to debate this. For those who are not close minded on sockeye fishing, you can always give the technique a try.  Cheer and have a good summer.

[glx]

I myself will follow the request.  I used to bottom bounce (still do for Socks only, when open) for springs but have turned to bar fishing for them in recent years.  I dont believe that DFO should have to ban it, I believe the request is suffiecient enough, what they are looking for is that anglers be responsible for their own actions.  Who cares what the other groups are doing.  Worry about your selves because thats all you have control of.  By controlling your own actions you are taking a step in the right direction.  Dont use excuses that others groups are fishing and therefore you should to.  Those are problems that fisheries have trouble with, dont contribute to them. 

glx

[chris gadsden]

Chris its good to have you guys going to bat for the fish and all but im starting to wonder what this game is all about?
You mention that you had a meeting and that there were reps from fisheries there.
Did anyone tell them that there wording of notices about selective methods really sucks.
They are the ones playing the game here as they dont have the balls to say what needs to be said.
NO BOTTOM BOUNCING is what they should have in the regs and not a wishy washy notice thats asks the fishermen to play nice and use selective methods.

I agree with an earlier poster who said that fisheries just loves to see us fighting among ourselves over something that to me is a cut and dry issue.
Bottom bouncing is snagging and snagging is illegal.Period.

The notice from the Upper Fraser Valley Sports Fishing Advisory Committee that is posted at key launching sites (Island 22) and is in most sports shops to be handed out to people states. "Please note that bottom bouncing is NOT a selective fishing method and is strongly discouraged during the migration of Early Stuart sockeye and a "no"fishing for sockeye" restriction is in place.

Also the notice says should DFO feel that the rate of compliance is insufficient to ensure the safe passage of the Early Stuarts sockeye spot closures or a "no fishing for salmon" restriction may results.

Not sure if Rodney has this notice that goes out with the FOC one but if he has maybe he will consider posting it.

[Rodney]

[chris gadsden]

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=14990.msg146716#msg146716

Thanks I forgot this was the starting thread on this topic, Some were concerned the notice did not include the words no bottom bouncing but as the notice shows it did.

[jetboatjim]

Chris its good to have you guys going to bat for the fish and all but im starting to wonder what this game is all about?
You mention that you had a meeting and that there were reps from fisheries there.
Did anyone tell them that there wording of notices about selective methods really sucks.
They are the ones playing the game here as they dont have the balls to say what needs to be said.
NO BOTTOM BOUNCING is what they should have in the regs and not a wishy washy notice thats asks the fishermen to play nice and use selective methods.

I agree with an earlier poster who said that fisheries just loves to see us fighting among ourselves over something that to me is a cut and dry issue.
Bottom bouncing is snagging and snagging is illegal.Period.

The notice from the Upper Fraser Valley Sports Fishing Advisory Committee that is posted at key launching sites (Island 22) and is in most sports shops to be handed out to people states. "Please note that bottom bouncing is NOT a selective fishing method and is strongly discouraged during the migration of Early Stuart sockeye and a "no"fishing for sockeye" restriction is in place.

Also the notice says should DFO feel that the rate of compliance is insufficient to ensure the safe passage of the Early Stuarts sockeye spot closures or a "no fishing for salmon" restriction may results.

Not sure if Rodney has this notice that goes out with the FOC one but if he has maybe he will consider posting it.

Are they handing out notices to first nations? I seen quite a few nets in the fraser, this weekend.

[firstlight]

If those that bottom bounce dont buy a licence then that just shows what kind of fishers they really are and i use the term fishermen very loosely.
Id say the coffers are better off without the money from snaggers as there is no place for that kind of crap in fishing.
Its illegal no matter what rose colored glasses your looking through.
Dance around the issue and point fingers everywhere you want but we all know that its wrong to snag fish.

Im done here as i dont really have anymore to say on the matter that i havent allready said.

[bbronswyk2000]

Their is allot of disrespect going on around here. Allot of people who have been involved in this sport for many years are being disrespected and I find it a shame. All because they think they know whats right. Sometimes you just need to open your eyes for the greater good.