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[2:40]

Oh where's the logic?? Sockeye are sure an amazing fish!! They argueablly have the best fight, pound for pound, travel great distances avoiding thousands of dangers, and they also have the ability to do funny things (IMO) to people!

Tangled up, you'd litter our streets and rivers if it was lawful to do so? You'd jump off a bridge if someone just suggested you didnt? Im really sorry, but I have a tough time with the herd of sheep mentality. 

It's pretty obvious why they can only suggest no bottom bouncing; because they CANT enforce it! Guys who sit around waiting to be outright told will have to wait a couple more years. In the meantime, might as well hang up your snagging rods as DFO will have no choice but to shut the river down.

[liketofish]

I respect many of you have a deep desire to protect the fish stocks. It is a noble goal. The only way to do so is to shut down the entire river for any group, Period. If you are concerned about the spring stock, then stop bar fishing too, not just bbing. If the natives are netting springs, what is the point to talk about fish conservation. This is all politics and personal agenda on biased fishing ethics to me. Think about the NET EFFECT of your actions.

Let's just say you stop spring-loving bbers (yes, they love this delicacy just like you bar-fishers) from getting their springs now. The NET EFFECT is that they will postpone their spring catches until sockeye season (not a bad idea with the high cost of gas). Many may want to catch a spring after they are done with 2 socs, causing much more unnecessary soc hookup and taking a spot too long. Sockeye will suffer for this. Crowding with people not willing to leave after two socs can lead to confrontation between fishers. But people who like spring delicacy will target spring whether you let them do it now or later when sockeye is thick. Think seriously, which time of the year is best to let the bb springers catch their springs w/o harming other stocks? It is the early season from June to mid July, when socs are few in the river.

Also imagine you stop bbers from even sockeye fishing or very short opening. The NET EFFECT is, most people who like sockeye delicacy will buy socs from illegal source (and we know where it is). I have not heard of one case, of all the people I know who like sockeye delicacy, that they buy from a store. Every one likes the $10-$15 price than $40-60. The net effect of a closed recreational fishery on socs is to encourage much more illegal poaching from the 'tradition' group, and they don't fish with traditional method any more. A few more nights of poaching or a few more days of defiant fishing by this group can wipe out a run.  I don't even count the economic loss and job loss to all those who depend on this fishery.

As noble as your intent is, to shut down bbing for springs & sockeye for the sake of the fish can back fire in reality. The NET effect can be quite disastrous for the fish, like it or not. However, if your fanatic and zealous lobbying to shut bbing down is concealed behind personal agenda about your narrow vision on fishing ethics, envy of bb catches, or fishing utopia (like the good old days with very few fishermen around), then the net effect can be really ugly, for both the fish and your so called moral victory. 

So, what is the net effect of fishermen stuck at home at those times of the year when they should be fishing?  I leave the answer to some of you geniuses out there. 

[2:40]

Good thoughts like to fish.

You have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. Having rampant snagging of our fish stocks is not going to preserve angling or angling opportunities. It has nothing to do with any personal gain. Snagging has no place in fishing. The sooner anglers stick to at least some core values the better IMO. We'll always debate fly vs gear, bait vs artificial etc, but some things NEED to be consistant.

As to the nets and people who will go buying fish, that's another issue. That's unlawful and it's people's responsibility to find a legal way to get fish to eat or to realize that life isnt always fair and they might have to go without fish.

I like money, does it make it right for me to break the law to get it? Or, can I work harder and get more. There is lots of money out there for those willing to go for it.

I like eating fish. I can go out and get one honestly, or I can go without. There is plenty of opportunity for those willing to get fish to eat.

There's no logic is letting anything happen because some will break the law to get it anyway. Not a great way to run a society!

Battle the nets and illegal sales seperately from anglers snagging fish. Mixing the two, even if a little related, make both legit issues harder to resolve.

[2:40]

So, what is the net effect of fishermen stuck at home at those times of the year when they should be fishing?  I leave the answer to some of you geniuses out there. 

I dunno! Gives you time to edit your post several times as I write my reply? 

[liketofish]

Divorce lawyers get fat, social workers get over-worked, potato chips suppliers get a huge bottom line.... 

[4x4]

That's not really the point troutbreath, we need to be responsible and own what we are supposed to uphold with sports fishing...

Do you dump garbage just because someone else gets away with it?

No, you do what is right cause it's your conscience you have to deal with.

Cheers,
Nicole

I don't dump garbage because of my conscience. I don't do it because it's the LAW! Now if the wording of the law said 'we recommend that you don't dump garbage' then I would. But seeing how it's ILLEGAL I don't do it. This notice is just as ridiculous as the other. Until it states that I am not allowed to bottom bounce and there is some sort of legal recourse against it, I will bounce till my hearts content.

ATU,

We all know, yourself included what DFO means when they say "Selective Fishing Methods" (I'm like a few others - why don't they just say Bb'ing to make it crystal clear?) and avoid this back and forth arguing.

Any shop you walk into will tell you the same thing. Selective methods = no bb'ing with long leaders. I think for now it should be no bb'ing at all. Long or short leaders.
 We need this early run to get to the reds. They already will have the nets to deal with why add the sportsman factor to the numbers killed (even though it wouldn't be a significant number). There are other ways to catch Springs.

It seems so simple to me. If we all do as requested, the Fraser will stay open for fishing. In a month from now if the numbers are there the Sockeye gong show will be open and people can choose how they want to harvest their meat.

[troutbreath]

"Battle the nets and illegal sales separately from anglers snagging fish. Mixing the two, even if a little related, make both legit issues harder to resolve."


The point was conservation, and what is causes of concern to the fish stocks. I don't think thats too confusing an issue or a little related.   I just see this leading to more poaching of fish. There are people who I work with who never fish, yet make sure they have a freezer full of sockeye for $10 bucks a piece and don't care about the stocks or understand the issue at all. They just like nice cheep sockeye and have been buying them for many years from the same spot. Now people who can't fish for them will probably go the same route. I didn't used to buy a tidal license some years because of all the closures on the lower Fraser, and thats money you would hope/think would go toward the fishery. I doubt that now. The fuzzy logic of closing the fishery to sports fishing usually is more political than analytical.

I hope people do take to bar fishing as requested as they aren't asking too much from us anyway. I will be.

[Nicole]

I don't dump garbage because of my conscience. I don't do it because it's the LAW! Now if the wording of the law said 'we recommend that you don't dump garbage' then I would.

Really? Ouch!


Nicole

[TrophyHunter]

You hit the Nail right on the head LTF !!! it is not possible to argue with you're logic... allthough I know of a few that will try simply because they have blinders on !!
TH

[Tee]

I respect many of you have a deep desire to protect the fish stocks. It is a noble goal. The only way to do so is to shut down the entire river for any group, Period. If you are concerned about the spring stock, then stop bar fishing too, not just bbing. If the natives are netting springs, what is the point to talk about fish conservation. This is all politics and personal agenda on biased fishing ethics to me. Think about the NET EFFECT of your actions.

Let's just say you stop spring-loving bbers (yes, they love this delicacy just like you bar-fishers) from getting their springs now. The NET EFFECT is that they will postpone their spring catches until sockeye season (not a bad idea with the high cost of gas). Many may want to catch a spring after they are done with 2 socs, causing much more unnecessary soc hookup and taking a spot too long. Sockeye will suffer for this. Crowding with people not willing to leave after two socs can lead to confrontation between fishers. But people who like spring delicacy will target spring whether you let them do it now or later when sockeye is thick. Think seriously, which time of the year is best to let the bb springers catch their springs w/o harming other stocks? It is the early season from June to mid July, when socs are few in the river.

Also imagine you stop bbers from even sockeye fishing or very short opening. The NET EFFECT is, most people who like sockeye delicacy will buy socs from illegal source (and we know where it is). I have not heard of one case, of all the people I know who like sockeye delicacy, that they buy from a store. Every one likes the $10-$15 price than $40-60. The net effect of a closed recreational fishery on socs is to encourage much more illegal poaching from the 'tradition' group, and they don't fish with traditional method any more. A few more nights of poaching or a few more days of defiant fishing by this group can wipe out a run.  I don't even count the economic loss and job loss to all those who depend on this fishery.

As noble as your intent is, to shut down bbing for springs & sockeye for the sake of the fish can back fire in reality. The NET effect can be quite disastrous for the fish, like it or not. However, if your fanatic and zealous lobbying to shut bbing down is concealed behind personal agenda about your narrow vision on fishing ethics, envy of bb catches, or fishing utopia (like the good old days with very few fishermen around), then the net effect can be really ugly, for both the fish and your so called moral victory. 

So, what is the net effect of fishermen stuck at home at those times of the year when they should be fishing?  I leave the answer to some of you geniuses out there. 

Good one. Thanks for sharing your thought.

[liketofish]

Thanks for the support. Thinking ahead, it is very likely our way of fishing will be affected by the fate of the Fraser fishery. If sockeye fishing is stopped, then the massive loss of license revenue will force DFO to cut funding on hatchery stocking programs. This will mean a lot less fish for all to catch. If this happens to coho & steelhead, what do you think potential poachers will do to the wild stocks? If they fish for days and not having much success because of the lack of stocked fish, what do you think when they luck out on a wild stock? Of course,Bonk! It is only human nature. Unfortunately a lot of newer fishers have not learned to care about fish stock like some of us guys who have been around a while. Their lack of skill to catch fish will be much worsened when there are not enough fish to fish with, so the temptation to retain a wild fish will be greatly amplified.

What about COs? I don't know where their salaries come from to say for sure. If this comes from the same pot as the license revenue, then they will be laid off in drones. You think they will fire some head honchos to save money? Don't kid yourself. The axe will fall on the field staff, newly hired COs. Then we will complain why no enforcement for all the violations.

This fishery issue and its funding are a intricate web interrelated, much like the food chain in eco system. There is no single cause & effect there. One wrong move, who knows what bad thing will follow? I say, keep the status quote. 

[2:40]

So we have no choice but to continue down the dark path. 

Before the snagging was popular things were ok. Guys caught fish. The hatcheries were operating just as well or as poorly, depending on your view, as they do today. We still dont have enough CO's. We have LESS now than before the snagging started. So many of these 'bottom bouncers' who only use this method dont buy licenses anyway so dont try to pass it off as if DFO's going to cut things lose if license sales drop. Province wide, sales are down and continuing to drop anyway.

Sure, there's some economical benefit, but since when did money make things right? This path you want to travel is going to result in fishing closures and less fish quite shortly. How will that help all the benefits you talked about? It was hard enough to have openings and opportunity before. Having the gong show isnt going to brighten our image as we get closed down.

"Human nature" is a weak argument. Im not about to sacrifice sport angling just because some people are going to buy salmon unlawfully or whack a wild steelhead. Im sure it will stop a few from buying sockeye, but in the big picture it wont make a difference. FN guys did rip-roaring sales even during rec sockeye openings if who I talked to is any evidence. Guys bonk wild steelhead all the time.

Why not stop rolling over for criminals and poachers and do something about them? Or are these people just convenient to hide behind while you snag what ever your weakness might be at the moment...

I think we're just going to wait and see. Changes are in the wind. 

[stlhd4ever]

We shouldn't be looking at the socks as a means for revenue. I wouldn't care if they shut the Fraser down to Sturgeon only. Can't catch socks sturgy fishin.   If the stocks are on a drastic decline protect them

[TrophyHunter]

I think Gord; what everyone is trying to get across is that no matter how many people BB , it is the nets that are causing the real problem... you shut down the river to BB and you will still have the same problems !! I believe that even without flossers , until you get those nets out of the river you are always going to have declining numbers !!! I honestly believe that banning one way of fishing is just a way for DFO to show that they are trying to do something, paint rotten wood and it will look pretty for a couple of weeks... but in the end you still have rot!!
TH

[Nuggy]

I think Gord; what everyone is trying to get across is that no matter how many people BB , it is the nets that are causing the real problem... you shut down the river to BB and you will still have the same problems !! I believe that even without flossers , until you get those nets out of the river you are always going to have declining numbers !!! I honestly believe that banning one way of fishing is just a way for DFO to show that they are trying to do something, paint rotten wood and it will look pretty for a couple of weeks... but in the end you still have rot!!
TH

Rick, I`d like to see you post some evidence to your accusations that First Nations nets are causing the real problems. I believe the B.C., international commercial and poaching fishing fleets salmon harvest numbers are exponentially higher than the First Nations wimpy numbers. The First Nations are just easily visable to everybody so they are an easy target.

Habit degradation and destruction due to logging, mining, industrialization, urbanization, pollution, hydro electric generation, all play major roles in the decline of salmon stocks as well.

I get frustrated and envious with First Nation privilege's in this country but I also see that I have to be realistic in not solely laying the blame on them for this problem. Show me the evidence and I will agree that First Nations are the ones to blame, until then it`s still the commercial fleet and all the other things I mentioned that are the salmons worst nightmare. The least of the salmons problems in my books are recreational fishers and First Nations, perhaps they are the salmons best allies.

Cheers

Nuggy