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Author Topic: Ethics Fishing Article In Chilliwack Progress  (Read 30215 times)

chris gadsden

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Re: Ethics Fishing Article In Chilliwack Progress
« Reply #90 on: July 31, 2007, 11:15:17 PM »

Yes flossing is very effective. I was out on the veddar yesterday after work( mostly to test the new breathables) and we came into this run ( no it was not the limit hole). It was about three feet of water where this one guy was fishing. He was using about a 2 foot leader but 6 to 7 feet between his float and a fixed weight. He was hooking alot of springs. Where would your guys leader restriction come into play here? According to your guys suggestions of 3 feet or less from a fixed weight he would be perfectly fine but he was still snagging fish. See how leader restriction may not exactly work. People are already finding a way to adjust.
You are right but the answer is to try to explain to people that going fishing with the intent to snag fish is not what sports angling is about.

That I know will be difficult as some seasoned anglers still think it is ok to do so and defend this flossing, bouncing and snagging or what one chooses to call this method of fishing although I use the term fishing loosely.

The good part is more people each day are seeing it for what it is and are giving it up. ;D ;D ;D

Remember most of us, including myself were doing the same thing a few years ago, we changed.

I know there is some that will not change their opinion on this but I guess that is their choice.

When and if you read the BC Outdoors editorial and I quote this sentence "The phrase that best defines all that is sport fishing has to be: "entice to bite" How can one disagree with that statement is beyond me.

chris gadsden

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Re: Ethics Fishing Article In Chilliwack Progress
« Reply #91 on: July 31, 2007, 11:26:48 PM »

A good article Chris, hopefully the move to another level happens quickly.

I believe MOE and FOC are seeing what this type of activity is creating and the hope is we donot see a sockeye opening this year, in 2008, 2009 and ever again. ;D

This will help bring things back to normal in the fishing fraternity.

Thanks to you, with your article, the fishing clinic you put on, it got the ball rolling.

Now the trick is to keep things rolling rolling, rolling right along  ;D ;D ;D. Gosh training camp is not that far away, to learn proper fishing techniques that is. ;D ;D ;D Now that is a low blow. ::) Sort of good to be back on the forum after another succesful fishing trip with 2 jacks springs and one nice adult, should write the journal. :)

Well it is interesting to see a small group pushing their agenda.

The use of "concern for stocks" is just plain funny.
If there is a conservation concern then it is simple, shut the river to ALL.

Is there a concern about released stocks? If so, what % of ALL catch and release fish are killed??
What difference is there between fish that are released that were flossed or caught bar fishing?

What % of fish caught in the Vedder by all means are released then die??


What are you talking about, people catching to many fish in the Fraser and other rivers?
How many Sockeye have been caught on the Fraser to date this year?

How come it is OK for F/N to have a commercial opening on the river and others are told to stay away from sockeye?

 






Please read the editorial in BC Outdoors I think it may change your opinion on this fishery.

If not please let us know where the writer of the editorial has gone astray with his remarks.

I think your other questions just avoid the issue that going out to intently snag a fish is not right, don't you agree?

RA40

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Re: Ethics Fishing Article In Chilliwack Progress
« Reply #92 on: August 01, 2007, 07:52:07 AM »

Letter to the editor   re: Anglers take on ethics debate

After reading the article titled “Anglers take on ethics debate” I was somewhat frustrated. I found that the article makes some rather large assumptions on the level of support for document the referred to and as to the root causes of the problems it is designed to address
 I have read the report mentioned in the article on the Internet and I found it to be an extremely biased report, which essentially blames all the problems identified in the Chilliwack/Vedder system from retaining foul hooked fish. Fishing with barbed hooks, failing to record appropriate species to littering, on the Fraser River recreational sockeye fishery and specifically bottom bouncing. In the description of the problem they identify a set of behaviors, which after a careful review the vast majority are illegal, therefore the simple solution is strategic enforcement of existing rules in problem areas
The report seems to have focused it, s attention on the sockeye fishery in the Fraser and in large part blames all the issues that are currently present on the Vedder on the opening of the sockeye fishery in I believe 1996. In my opinion this is a very narrow view of the contributing factors. For Example in the late 90's a recreational harvest was allowed on Chum and pinks around the same time the white springs were enhanced in the Chilliwack River.  These advancements created a lot more opportunities for people to take home a fish.
Over the last 10 years the population of the lower mainland has increased dramatically. The Fraser and the Chilliwack/Vedder respectively are the most fished rivers in the province. With this popularity comes crowds with crowds comes some social issues as with any other activity.  The lower mainland is the only area in the province where fishing license sales are increasing. In large part due to the world-class fisheries on the Fraser and the Chilliwack/Vedder Rivers, including the sockeye fishery
 
The report blames the apparent lack of ethics seen in some areas of the Chilliwack/Vedder on the sockeye fishery and bottom bouncing yet when I researched the issue on the internet I found that every jurisdiction that had large runs of salmon in close proximity to large populations people the same set of issues as outlined in this report. This was evident in New York State. Michigan, Ontario, Washington, Oregon and California.
 
In my opinion the solutions to the issues this report is trying to address are: Strategic enforcement of existing rules and timely education campaigns. Not adding more regulation and loss of fishing opportunity. The recreational fishing community needs to work together to develop workable solutions to these issues not drafting reports that recommend someone else fix it through legislation and a reduction of fishing opportunities.

The article identifies specific areas of the river where problems occur. Well then have an enforcement presence there deal with the offenders get aggressive with violators but don’t punish the thousands of other anglers who fish respectfully

The article leads one to believe that if you bottom bounce for Salmon on the Fraser you will turn into this monster that is out to rape and pillage our rivers. I take exception to this and I also have a greater faith in people. You fish different rivers and bodies of water differently according to the local conditions. Bottom bouncing is a technique that is intended to hook fish in the mouth as per regulation. . There is no need for regulation change. If it is hooked anywhere other than the mouth it must be released carefully. While I understand the argument presented regarding this technique I disagree and from a survey done so do the vast majority of anglers. As with any activity you are free to pursue the sport by any legal means. So if you don’t like it don’t do it. But please don’t try to force me to conform to some one else’s ideal of what is or is not an ethical manner of fishing when there is no conservation concern present.

The frustrating part for me is this is a new round in recreational anglers fighting amongst them selves on technique whether it be bottom bouncing, bait bans, fly only or other gear restrictions ect. While I believe the people involved are well intentioned in their desire to improve the fisheries and some of the solutions presented have merit. However I feel that they are looking to the wrong place for results and trying to turn back the clock will only result in lost opportunities and ultimately hurt the recreational fishing opportunities in the lower mainland.

The economic impact alone should the recommended solutions come to pass would be devastating to a wide range of businesses. Tourism in Chilliwack would suffer significantly should the draw of the Fraser River fisheries be curtailed The loss of economic value to lower mainland fisheries resulting from less license sales would ultimately hurt the Freshwater Fisheries Society that receives significant funding from these license sales. This would have a province wide impact.

It also frustrates me that the government representatives who participated in this report seem to be encouraging this division of recreational anglers and are operating outside of formal consultative processes.

I agree that some people on the Chilliwack /Vedder system abuse the fishery.  I do not believe that more regulation or loss of fishing opportunity will correct it. Only strong enforcement of existing regulation and timely education campaigns will instill a higher standard.

Gerry Dewar
42522 Adams Rd.
Chilliwack BC
604-823-6336

chris gadsden

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Re: Ethics Fishing Article In Chilliwack Progress
« Reply #93 on: August 01, 2007, 08:10:57 AM »

Thanks for posting Gerry's letter for him and for us to read.

The next thing that should be in order is the Sports Fishing Advisory Committee Sub Committee that was struck a few months ago  that you, Gerry, myself, Gwyn, Ken and others sit on should be preparing a document or report that they were charged with to do to seek solutions to this issue.

Then it can be submitted to the Upper Fraser Valley SFAC for further input and approval before being submitted to the SFAB.

Writing letters and articles are fine but one must prepare something like the Chilliwack River Watershed Strategy Committee did so improvements can attempted to be be made to what a number of us see as a problem's with this type of activity as does Gerry who states in his letter there are.

However trying to get over the hurdle that some believe it is that is is ok to go out and bottom bounce for salmon and steelhead when actually you know full well it is just a method to snag fish will be a hard one to overcome.

I am glad Gerry mentioned in his letter that when there is a conservation problem, that we have now with this year's run of Fraser River sockeye anglers should be fishing selectively (that is how I read it but I could be corrected) and to me that means not bottom bouncing. I hope many anglers will take that into consideration which I am sure many that do care about our fish will continue to do so.

Once again thanks for posting Gerry's letter.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 08:25:26 AM by chris gadsden »
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troutbreath

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Re: Ethics Fishing Article In Chilliwack Progress
« Reply #94 on: August 01, 2007, 08:33:07 AM »

"The article leads one to believe that if you bottom bounce for Salmon on the Fraser you will turn into this monster that is out to rape and pillage our rivers. I take exception to this and I also have a greater faith in people. "


Exactly
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FLOSSNBONK

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Re: Ethics Fishing Article In Chilliwack Progress
« Reply #95 on: August 01, 2007, 08:40:02 AM »

"However trying to get over the hurdle that some believe it is that is is ok to go out and bottom bounce for salmon and steelhead when actually you know full well it is just a method to snag fish will be a hard one to overcome."

Chris, I disagree. And I think you, are a vocal minority. If more restrictions are put in place, I suspect ... quite a few license holders will "vote" with their dollars. That being a withdrawl of them of course. Is that really what your agenda is? I think not. I think really what you want is less people on the rivers, so that you may enjoy them a little more yourself. Be honest with yourself. I still think you're missing the point. FN nets and devastating Comm. openings and of course lack of enforcement are the issues, that if dealt with in a timely manner, would have the best outcome for the fish. But that's not really what you want is it?  ;D ;D ;D
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Nicole

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Re: Ethics Fishing Article In Chilliwack Progress
« Reply #96 on: August 01, 2007, 08:55:59 AM »

I have not read the letter today, but the real root of the problem is the allowed retention of Sockeye, pinks and chum.

I bet if these openings were cancelled entirely, alot of the problems would eventually go away.

It is a people problem... There are too many of us, and when too many of us are in the same location at the same time, some of us turn into disgusting and filthy pigs.

Take note, the fireworks...

Cheers,
Nicole
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chris gadsden

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Re: Ethics Fishing Article In Chilliwack Progress
« Reply #97 on: August 01, 2007, 09:15:10 AM »

"However trying to get over the hurdle that some believe it is that is is ok to go out and bottom bounce for salmon and steelhead when actually you know full well it is just a method to snag fish will be a hard one to overcome."

Chris, I disagree. And I think you, are a vocal minority. If more restrictions are put in place, I suspect ... quite a few license holders will "vote" with their dollars. That being a withdrawl of them of course. Is that really what your agenda is? I think not. I think really what you want is less people on the rivers, so that you may enjoy them a little more yourself. Be honest with yourself. I still think you're missing the point. FN nets and devastating Comm. openings and of course lack of enforcement are the issues, that if dealt with in a timely manner, would have the best outcome for the fish. But that's not really what you want is it?  ;D ;D ;D
Gosh and to think Pete myself and a few others worked so hard to get sockeye open years ago and now you talk to me like that. ;D ;D ;D

Thats ok trouthbreath too, the politics of fishing is just like everything in life it is not easy. Our numbers grow and will continue to do so. ;D ;D

The good thing is if it was not for this debate here and elsewhere more people would have not been fishing selectively so we in fact have saved many fish that will now reach the spawning grounds. ;D

Now I am going fishing, darn I have put my foot in it again as I hope to SF a chinook or two.

O well I will not be here for a few hours to take the heat for my actions but retirement is still great and I hope everyone has a safe and enjoyable BC Long Weekend and you can go and catch a fish or two by fis..... selec......ly ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: August 01, 2007, 09:16:49 AM by chris gadsden »
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