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[Nicole]

That's what I'm doing FlossnBonk, I'm part of the solution...

And I'm not afraid to express my opinion, it's based on 30 years of experience and observation in fishing of all types. If some of you don't agree, it's totally ok with me, that is why we live in Canada

Cheers,
Nicole

[FLOSSNBONK]

Part of what solution? Helping the fish stocks improve? C'mon, it's all about your own little agenda , and that is obvious.

[TrophyHunter]

That's what I'm doing FlossnBonk, I'm part of the solution...

And I'm not afraid to express my opinion, it's based on 30 years of experience and observation in fishing of all types. If some of you don't agree, it's totally ok with me, that is why we live in Canada

Cheers,
Nicole

Expressing your opinion and ramming it down peoples throats are two entirely different things just so you know !! I won't stoop to name calling and insults like you so this discussion for me is over !! at one time I thought quite highly of you Nicole.. shame your true colours came through I guess 
cheers
TH OUT

[Nicole]

I'll tell you what my agenda is, impose a leader restriction, that is all.

Everyone has a right to fish the way they want...

Cheers,
Nicole

[Nicole]

Expressing your opinion and ramming it down peoples throats are two entirely different things just so you know !! I won't stoop to name calling and insults like you so this discussion for me is over !! at one time I thought quite highly of you Nicole.. shame your true colours came through I guess 
cheers
TH OUT

How have I rammed my opinion down your throat?

I am merely expressing my opinion, that is all.

I haven't done a single thing to have bottom bouncing made illegal politically, not even letter writing. So what the heck are you talking about?

Yes those are my true colors, I look at sport fishing as enticing a fish to bite...

If that is shameful and you don't wish to know me as a result, then so be it. It's your loss.

Its too bad you want to create animosity, I'm totally not geared that way... Oh well.

Cheers,
Nicole

[Stratocaster]

I think the problem is your incorporating too many things into what "You" consider "unethical"!!!! Bottom bouncing is a term for your weight ticking along the bottom down here....How is that unethical? Short floating is only one method of fishing..It to me is old fashioned and out of date...to preach it's the only way to fish is IMO  elitist... That's what bothers me on this subject.... I'm sick of reading how guys are" ticking bottom and then adjusting their floats to be just off that and fishing 18" leaders"....and then showing pictures of steelhead they SNAGGED with the roe bag uncrushed and the hook on the outside of the mouth....pure b.s. ( but that's been shown enough on 2:40's site  )

We are fighting a war among st ourselves over what is deemed "ethical" by a select group...What we really need to be concerned with is not division but pulling all angling groups togeather to stand up as one...Whether it be fly, float, etc. Your resources are going fast and  your pissing into the wind over leader length.  We catch the fewest amount of fish and yet spent the most for local economy's etc. We aren't heard because everyone is always pointing at someone else as the cause...That's the real problem in a IMHO..

Great Post!  Exactly how I feel about this. 

[adriaticum]

Ok let's all have a beer, shall we?!

[Stratocaster]

I'll tell you what my agenda is, impose a leader restriction, that is all.

Everyone has a right to fish the way they want...

Cheers,
Nicole

Hmm, being the devil's advocate here but how would a leader restriction solve anything?  How would that stop the people snagging chums in the back at the chehalis hatchery?  What about Tamahi? the leaders there are usually quite short.  How could this rule be implemented with fly fishing?  Would it stop the flossing with fly gear for chums on the Squamish?  Do you honestly think a leader restriction would do anything to minimize the number of snagged chinook at KWB?  Why do we argue about techniques or what leader length we use when its fairly obvious that its how we use it thats important.  I don't know maybe its too simple but I favor techniques and methods that give fish a chance to bite.  If you start using that technique to intentionally foul hook fish (like casting into a bunch of trapped fished and ripping away) then I will take offence to that.  But if you allow your gear to drift properly whether its with a float or BB or whatever length leader you have then you are giving the fish a chance to bite.  From what I have seen in regards to the sockeye fishery, most people let their gear drift properly.  Even if most fish are flossed, the technique does give a chance for the fish to bite.  I am not promoting the sockeye fishery by any means but I have to call it like I see it.

[Nicole]

Hey,

This message is for Trophy Hunter, I realized I was way out of line with my tone towards you, and I apologize for that...

I'm not feeling well today, and I over reacted... I know its no excuse, so I hope you accept my apology...


Nicole

[Nicole]

Hmm, being the devil's advocate here but how would a leader restriction solve anything?  How would that stop the people snagging chums in the back at the chehalis hatchery?  What about Tamahi? the leaders there are usually quite short.  How could this rule be implemented with fly fishing?  Would it stop the flossing with fly gear for chums on the Squamish?  Do you honestly think a leader restriction would do anything to minimize the number of snagged chinook at KWB?  Why do we argue about techniques or what leader length we use when its fairly obvious that its how we use it thats important.  I don't know maybe its too simple but I favor techniques and methods that give fish a chance to bite.  If you start using that technique to intentionally foul hook fish (like casting into a bunch of trapped fished and ripping away) then I will take offence to that.  But if you allow your gear to drift properly whether its with a float or BB or whatever length leader you have then you are giving the fish a chance to bite.  From what I have seen in regards to the sockeye fishery, most people let their gear drift properly.  Even if most fish are flossed, the technique does give a chance for the fish to bite.  I am not promoting the sockeye fishery by any means but I have to call it like I see it.

Yes, you're right, you can snag fish by any means, I could throw a belly in my fly line when fly fishing and snag salmon every cast if I wanted to. Or with a float, you can extend the float length and rip away.

I'm not sure what do actually do about the problem at all, it seems like there is no clear solution... The leader restriction would seriously screw my fishing coho off a dry line, as the normal amount of leader is 10 feet...

So I guess chaos is the best option then?

I dunno.
Nicole

[Stratocaster]

Yes, you're right, you can snag fish by any means, I could throw a belly in my fly line when fly fishing and snag salmon every cast if I wanted to. Or with a float, you can extend the float length and rip away.

I'm not sure what do actually do about the problem at all, it seems like there is no clear solution... The leader restriction would seriously screw my fishing coho off a dry line, as the normal amount of leader is 10 feet...

So I guess chaos is the best option then?

I dunno.
Nicole

No, the best option is for better enforcement and management.  The laws that are in place right now if enforced more rigourously would curtail most of the "undesirable activity" that you see now.  If people are less likely to keep a foul hooked fish because of increased enforcement, they would be less likely to try and foul hook one to begin with.  I hate to say this but spot closures may be a solution as well.  IMHO during years of low flows in late september and early october, areas like KWB should be closed because its just a recipe for disaster, especially if you do not have the resources to keep everyone in check.  Look at the regs on the Stamp.  Notice that there are a few areas (ex. stamp falls pool) that are closed all the time. 

[TrophyHunter]

Hey,

This message is for Trophy Hunter, I realized I was way out of line with my tone towards you, and I apologize for that...

I'm not feeling well today, and I over reacted... I know its no excuse, so I hope you accept my apology...


Nicole

No worries

[Xgolfman]

I sure wish I could snag a fish with my spey rod...I'm so desperate to actually catch something,( besides wood,) I promise to let it go really fast...please Salmon gods, have pity on me....

sadly, I actually played the last log I caught for about 3 minutes..till my leader broke...and enjoyed the hell out of it...

p.s. One reason for some of the confusion is like stated, down here bottom bouncing is your lead ticking the bottom...you guys refer to it as using bouncing bettys??? What do you call when your lead, slinky or split shot...touch bottom every so often???
Also, the leader length I think is miss leading too....It's the giant RIIIIIPPPPPPPP at the end of every drift that is more disturbing to me...we stopped at the cement slab yesterday, counted 13 guys on one side and 11 on the other...after every drift....RIIIIIIIIIIPPPPPPPPP... while leader length would help a bit "maybe" its the actually practice that is the problem...not the gear..IMO

[2:40]

Nicole "my friend" the scary part is .... an article full of "beliefs" and "theories" was published as "facts" ... in this world that is a big NO NO !!!
and as for your fishing with floats comment .. it goes much deeper than that !! they also refer to BB the Fraser !!! calling one method of fishing Snagging when in fact nobody has ever proven that !!! get a camera down there and prove to everyone that the fish are in fact NOT biting and maybe there would be something to back the claims up !! until then the false claims and scare tactics need to STOP !!!!!

Oh please. Everyone knows these fish dont bite. Why else does the leader keep growing in length? Because it helps in the snagging!! If you're looking for a fish to bite, use a shorter leader so you can at least have some credibility when you talk about these fish biting. 

The fact that there's belief in these fish biting says a lot IMO. 

Rick, you dont think it's fact? You go prove it then! More and more proof is coming up to support the 'claims'. Funny enough, the 'proof' is common sense angling that seems to be lost among many of the 'new' anglers (10 years or newer...well said to who commented on that).

Golfman, this is why this type if fishing, bet it with betty, long float (RIPPING!) or etc should be called SNAGGING and not some other term that also describes a legit angling method. So much is indeed intent. Guys can snag with a shorter leader. Leader length wont be the only cure.

[TrophyHunter]

Nicole "my friend" the scary part is .... an article full of "beliefs" and "theories" was published as "facts" ... in this world that is a big NO NO !!!
and as for your fishing with floats comment .. it goes much deeper than that !! they also refer to BB the Fraser !!! calling one method of fishing Snagging when in fact nobody has ever proven that !!! get a camera down there and prove to everyone that the fish are in fact NOT biting and maybe there would be something to back the claims up !! until then the false claims and scare tactics need to STOP !!!!!

Oh please. Everyone knows these fish dont bite. Why else does the leader keep growing in length? Because it helps in the snagging!! If you're looking for a fish to bite, use a shorter leader so you can at least have some credibility when you talk about these fish biting. 

The fact that there's belief in these fish biting says a lot IMO. 

Rick, you dont think it's fact? You go prove it then! More and more proof is coming up to support the 'claims'. Funny enough, the 'proof' is common sense angling that seems to be lost among many of the 'new' anglers (10 years or newer...well said to who commented on that).

Golfman, this is why this type if fishing, bet it with betty, long float (RIPPING!) or etc should be called SNAGGING and not some other term that also describes a legit angling method. So much is indeed intent. Guys can snag with a shorter leader. Leader length wont be the only cure.

Why should I have to prove anything you are the one pointing fingers and attacking 90% of fishermen and you do it with absolutely no proof !!!! you are non stop in your pursuit to open all of the Fraser to your precious Barfishing only !!! you keep telling me the fish don't bite yet you have no proof !! go get some and maybe people will think you aren't just another extremest.... things have been taken way too far with that ridiculous article and with all the untruths that it is full of I would be surprised if the paper didn't get sued.... the fact that you are still using the survival numbers of salmon to fuel your campain makes me take you less and less seriously every time you write something... you will never get most people to see things your way because your ideas are too narrow and they serve to benefit very few, if you think your constant bashing of good fishermen is ever going to win you support you are kidding yourself, I honestly don't know why I waste my time even responding to your posts when they are the same thing over and over again... if only you had some sort of proof to back up your attacks maybe they would be worth reading !! 

TH