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[ever_hopefull]

If there is real interest in dealing with the bb issue, then a lobbying effort to the SFAB is needed.  They do not want gear restrictions, and prefer that the DFO declare that the species is either open to retention or not, or that the area is closed or open.  Therefore harsh measures are the only cure if the area is open, and there is no retention allowed on a particular species but are being impacted by non-selective fishing methods. The SFAB is the 'official' advisory group to DFO, and without their support nothing will happen other than the river being closed down.  A common voice within the rec community will be the only thing that brings about change.

[johnny]

Not saying all guides are BBing but seriously how many guides are  bringing out thier clients to bar fish during the salmon season 

Most.

[Old Black Dog]

Outrage, you have to love it.
Bottom bouncers are killing all the fish and forcing DFO to close the river.

I see not outrage over the F/N KILLING THOMPSON STEELHEAD?
l see no outrage over allowing a Gill NET opening at the mouth of the river, which Will kill more SOCKEYE than all the sportys have this season?

People are catching and releasing fish, what is wrong with that?

The sports anglers are closing the river as they are fighting with each other and the F/N used this to have DFO close the river.
What part of that did you not understand?

Keep on in-fighting and you will be off the river.

[chris gadsden]

If there is real interest in dealing with the bb issue, then a lobbying effort to the SFAB is needed.  They do not want gear restrictions, and prefer that the DFO declare that the species is either open to retention or not, or that the area is closed or open.  Therefore harsh measures are the only cure if the area is open, and there is no retention allowed on a particular species but are being impacted by non-selective fishing methods. The SFAB is the 'official' advisory group to DFO, and without their support nothing will happen other than the river being closed down.  A common voice within the rec community will be the only thing that brings about change.

From what I gather they will be doing just that at a meeting in the near future. I believe they will come up with some good solutions as some know there is a problem out there that needs attention.

[chris gadsden]

Further to the above RA40, guides and tackle shop owners  have done a great job with a series of meeting that included meeting with some politicians. He and others do care about the future of our fisheries and the fish, that is why they are doing something. Hats off to them.

[Griz]

Yes I feel we  should  thank all  those who helped get the  Fraser opened once again. Thanks Griz

[Steelhawk]

Outrage, you have to love it.
Bottom bouncers are killing all the fish and forcing DFO to close the river.

I see not outrage over the F/N KILLING THOMPSON STEELHEAD?
l see no outrage over allowing a Gill NET opening at the mouth of the river, which Will kill more SOCKEYE than all the sportys have this season?

People are catching and releasing fish, what is wrong with that?

The sports anglers are closing the river as they are fighting with each other and the F/N used this to have DFO close the river.
What part of that did you not understand?

I am with you all the way Old Black Dog. While I have not fished the Fraser since late July and now more focused on lower river pinks and bass, and while I DO NOTsupport the reopening of the upper Fraser while sockeyes are threatened, I just don't see the point that people have to endlessly hammer BBing as the culprit for the river being closed. It is ok to make request politely, but not ok to use the thread to again bash bbing by some members. DFO knows their numbers. The BBers and their c/r of accidentally hooked sockeyes are not the threat to the stock. If that is the case, why have more & more openings to the net fleets which kill sockeyes massively and non-selectively. We sporties are just the scapegoats, a political ploy. Don't need to use this opportunity to put down the bottom bouncers and their techniques again and again.

Like I said before, I don't agree with the reopening if sockeyes are still threatened. All parties should stop. But if the net fleets are allowed to net, and bfers allowed to target spring, then it is up to those bbers to decide if they should or should not fish unless DFO specifically outlaws bbing for the Fraser. There is no need to further bash their fishing approaches in face of the net fleets being a much larger threat and yet allowed to kill indiscriminately. For those targeting pinks, why not just do it at lower Fraser. They are much fresher down river. Why need to open upper Fraser for rotting pinks? Perhaps it is time the valley folks drive down river to fish, like we city folks have done so for endless times going the other way (Wow, Richmond's economy will simmer  ).

Close the darn thing down so there is no more need to fight over who is right and wrong. Ortherwise, let others make their free choice to fish what legal fishing style they choose. Like OBD says, all the infightings plus the media backslashes (and no doubt which group had provided the media all those twisted & over-exaggerated views about bbers and bbing) just give the natives and DFO the trigger to shut out the sporties regardless of their fishing preferences. So when bfers lobbied hard to shut down the bbers, they shot their own toes too. 

[RA40]

Saturday Sept 01, 3:30 pm, I ran from Mission to Harrison via water. Kept record of every angler.
number per boat - Good to see the river back to what it should look like, people fishing. Oh ya, bar fishing was very good, lots of Springs taken.

Mission to Vedder - 24 boats sturgeon fishing x 3 = 72 anglers
Mouth of Vedder - 11 boats trolling/casting spinners  x 2 = 22 anglers
Updown bar - 7 bar rods
Bowmans - 0 fisherman
Hendersons - 3 boats anchored at bottom, plunking spin n glos - 12 anglers
                       - 41 bar rods on beech
                       - 7 bar rods at top
                      -  1 boat anchored at top with 2 bar rods 1 person bb out of boat.
Grassy - 2 boats at bottom - bb 4 anglers
             - 8 anglers bb on middle of bar
             - 7 boats x 2 anglers bb out of boat at top = 14 bb
Lower Wellington - 14 bar rods
Upper Wellington - 15 bar rods, no bb's
Queens - 4 boats sturgeon fishing x 4 = 16 rods
Island 22 - 10 boats floating, no fishing
Upper Queens - 1 boat 2 bar rods
Lower Mountain - 5 bar rods
Mountain bar - 3 fly fishing at bottom
                        - 5 bar rods
                        - 1 bb out of boat at top
Harrison Confluence - 4 boats casting /plunking for Pinks - 12 anglers
no bber's

Didn't make it to Peg Leg or further up. From what I heard there was more fly/plunking fisherman but there were 20 or more people bb in Minto Channel.

233 people fishing using bar rods, sturgeon, spin & fly
28 anglers bbing.

[nosey]

Over 50 bbing between Laidlaw and Hope which is a small number compared to before the closure. Maybe the DFO should look at spot closures again. Very few bar fishermen on the walk ins up here.

[Old Black Dog]

Over 50 bbing between Laidlaw and Hope which is a small number compared to before the closure. Maybe the DFO should look at spot closures again. Very few bar fishermen on the walk ins up here.

Why would DFO even consider looking at spot closures?

Please tell us why you even said this?

[kingpin]

Apparently the bottom bouncers in the minto channel are just hammering the springs.  They need to come right out and ban bottom bouncing on the river while the salmon are still open. These idiots are going to cause it to be closed again. 

[Old Black Dog]

Apparently the bottom bouncers in the minto channel are just hammering the springs.  They need to come right out and ban bottom bouncing on the river while the salmon are still open. These idiots are going to cause it to be closed again. 

Springs are open to fishing.

[firstlight]

BB,ing isnt fishing.

[Sandy]

Go to the other site and see what heat i've taken for posting.

Were you taking heat? I thought people were just hungry.

It's DFO job to enforce and MOE job to educate anglers. They need to change the flipp'n rules so that we don't go through this every year.

It is indeed up to the two agencies when it comes to enforcement and public educational outreach. Unfortunately, budget cut has further slashed away what little educational program there is left at DFO. This year's cut affected our event in Steveston but thanks to all the helpful staff who went out of their way to assist, we managed to survive for another year.

I think what Nicole was suggesting is that having an information sheet developed for anglers to read may increase compliance. The information would include the difference between bottom bouncing and bar fishing, brief summary of Fraser River sockeye's biology and what would happen if people are not fishing selectively. A couple of years ago I suggested this in an email that went out to SFAC members and most of the guides (I think you read a copy of it too Vic) but there were not much interests, perhaps there is now. People obviously will not stop after being told by others who do not represent the agency that manages the fishery. The best thing that can be done is to educate. Of course not everyone will listen, but I would think some will choose to change when informed and reasoned.

It maybe too late to do this for the remainder of this season, but perhaps something to consider for next year. For now, at least learn how to work collectively and objectively as a group to tackle the problem. Threads such as this one start with a positive intention, but some (on both sides of the issue) always choose to stride their ego and derail the discussion by demonstrating that they know what's best for this fishery. Get involved, join an existing group that has representations at meetings where changes are made. The continuation and repetition of this debate on an internet discussion forum changes nothing, instead it only turns people off.

as you and others have said Rod, more info is needed. As anglers become educated about the life cycles of the fish some of the urban legends will be dispelled and perhaps some of the unnecessary infighting will stop. there will always be disagreement among the die hard fly, bait, gear sport angler.
If each angler becomes as ethical as possible we will be seen to be doing our part. If we gather as much information and become as educated as we can about the fisheries we will be less likely to accept the political decisions/closures by DFO.
WE must do as much as we can to maintain and conserve the stock first.
fight to ensure that we have access to the fishery as sport anglers.   

[chris gadsden]

Thanks for the report Vic, looking good in the areas you checked.