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[chris gadsden]

Ed, in case you missed it I will repeat some facts.

 In most circumstances it is not so much about the numbers of fish being taken but by the method being used. This BB method is just a way getting around the snagging of fish as it is no matter how dirty the water is fish can be taken by this method. If the fish were biting the offering there would be no need to use such long leaders.

In my second sentence I would add the recreational sector is now having some effect on the chinook harvest on the Fraser. This year with high and dirty water chinooks were taken in substantial numbers far more than every before when water conditions determined how many were harvested. That was when bar fishing was the major way they were fished for.

One other thing, some people say some of us are trying to get the rivers closed, this is so far from the truth as all we are trying to do is return sport angling to just that. Some just want to cloud the issue with a statement like that. We are anglers too and we donot want to lose opportunities.

Sports angling is now so much a money issue than ever before and that along with ones that lobby through the SFAB against getting into the tackle box are making changes hard to make.

A series of meeting on both sides of the issue will be held before the next season and hopefully it will benefit us all as well as the fish.

Sorry Rodney for entering this debate again as I have tried to refrain from it as much as possible on FWR, instread I have been concentrating on setting up some meetings to deal with this issue.

Hopefully after this year this hot topic will be but to bed for good and we can then go after the speeders on our roads. 

[Old Black Dog]

In my second sentence I would add the recreational sector is now having some effect on the chinook harvest on the Fraser

Lets be clear here, you have NOTHING to prove this statement other than your personal feelings.

There is NO CONCERN about Chinook at this moment with the acception of early runs.

Sports anglers have had no effect on them as they are through the river before it is opened to sports angling.



 

[Ed]

"In most circumstances it is not so much about the numbers of fish being taken but by the method being used. This BB method is just a way getting around the snagging of fish as it is no matter how dirty the water is fish can be taken by this method. If the fish were biting the offering there would be no need to use such long leaders."

Originally, I thought the concern of snagging fish is how we impact the population of the salmon species and not the method being used. To me, netting a fish and snagging a fish are both methods of fishing where the fish is not willingly taking the bait or the "correct" method of fishing. Although i'm not saying that snagging is ok , i'm just saying that there are many other factors which are creating an even larger impact. I was just wondering if there was information available on the quantity of fish taken by sport fishermen, commercial fisheries, and FN fisheries.

[Old Black Dog]

Yes there are and the numbers of Sockeye taken are approx 5 % of the commercial catch.

So all this ranting about the Sports Sector having a real effect is just a load of bull.

[searun17]

Yes there are and the numbers of Sockeye taken are approx 5 % of the commercial catch.

So all this ranting about the Sports Sector having a real effect is just a load of bull.


 Every sector that uses the resource has an impact to one extent or another, that in the end can and will continue to have negative impact on our salmon runs unless each sector of the resource realizes and tries to eliminate ,or at least minimize the negative impact we have on our resource.The bottom line here is that the human race as a whole is to blame for our declining fish stocks in one way or another and if we don't work together towards a common goal there wont be any need for internet forums like FWR because there wont be any fish to talk about.

[Ed]

I totally agree with Searun on that all sectors must work together in order to make an impact. Even if sport fishing was banned, commercial fishing itself will fish at a rate where death>birth of fish species. Honestly we've destroyed so many natural habitats and basically transformed the whole concept of having abundant resources into economic value.

[Old Black Dog]

Yes there are and the numbers of Sockeye taken are approx 5 % of the commercial catch.

So all this ranting about the Sports Sector having a real effect is just a load of bull.


 Every sector that uses the resource has an impact to one extent or another, that in the end can and will continue to have negative impact on our salmon runs unless each sector of the resource realizes and tries to eliminate ,or at least minimize the negative impact we have on our resource.The bottom line here is that the human race as a whole is to blame for our declining fish stocks in one way or another and if we don't work together towards a common goal there wont be any need for internet forums like FWR because there wont be any fish to talk about.

I agree, but the effects of the other groups is way beyond what the Sports Anglers is.
The sports anglers as a group put back in a huge way to the fisherys, one cannot say that about the other groups.
THe other groups DO NOT want to work with the Sports Anglers as they are all about the $.

[searun17]

Old black Dog ,I agree with what you are saying ,its just like everything else in our society today,its all about the money and the bottom line,take ,take, take, at all costs to fill our pockets until  un repairable damage is done and everyone is left scrambling wondering what to do about the end result.There is no quick fix for our current dilemmas but we need to do as much as we can to have a positive impact on the resource regardless of what other users do or don't do and hopefully in time some of the problems you speak of will be dealt with in the best interest of the fish.as much as the recreational fisherman puts back into the resource,it is not without its problems and blemishes,just look at what goes on on some of our local waters,its enough to make me puke,perfect example the fall fishery on the vedder.

[chris gadsden]

Old black Dog ,I agree with what you are saying ,its just like everything else in our society today,its all about the money and the bottom line,take ,take, take, at all costs to fill our pockets until  un repairable damage is done and everyone is left scrambling wondering what to do about the end result.There is no quick fix for our current dilemmas but we need to do as much as we can to have a positive impact on the resource regardless of what other users do or don't do and hopefully in time some of the problems you speak of will be dealt with in the best interest of the fish.as much as the recreational fisherman puts back into the resource,it is not without its problems and blemishes,just look at what goes on on some of our local waters,its enough to make me puke,perfect example the fall fishery on the vedder.

Don't give up as many are trying the best they can to improve things not only fishing wise but cleaning up our rivers and limiting gravel removal on some rivers that destroy fish habitat. Also  remember it is only a small amount of people in the whole picture of things that are not heeding FOC's request not to BB. Many of these donot even know of the request.

Many that BB before have seen the writing on the wall and have given it up. Sports shops here in Chilliwack are now not selling BB gear and are even advising against it. Gains are being made. It will be interesting to see how the SFAB deals with it as well at their next meeting.

[Ed]

Honestly, we are more vulnerable because we all love fishing and the government knows that they can push us around easier!! 

They know we'll still be around for the next season even if they close the fraser but when commercial fisheries lose money, people get fired and the government has to deal with higher unemployment issues.

[troutbreath]

Another 20 year infestation provided by your Provincial Government. Even after there was a committee formed by them that recommended no new farms. So thats the support were getting for the wild fish, replace them with farms. Go ahead and make little points about sport fishing and the damage it causes. Or stay focused on the real problems that affect the fish. These pens have wiped out the wild fish in every place they've been.


B.C. fish farm salmon escape
Canadian Press

September 6, 2007 at 4:00 PM EDT

Ashousat, B.C. — Native fishing boats are dropping seine nets around a Clayoquot Sound salmon farm following a harvesting accident that tore a one-metre hole in a net pen Tuesday.

Alistair Haughton, deputy managing director of Mainstream Canada, said trawlers from Ahousat, B.C., are working a one-kilometre radius around the company's Saranac farm in an effort to catch any Atlantic salmon that may have escaped.

“We're rounding up as many as we can get our hands on,” said Mr. Haughton. “I'd like to have five to six boats anyway.”

Mr. Haughton said the company won't know how many Atlantic salmon may have escaped from the farm until at least Friday morning.

Mainstream Canada is a subsidiary of Cermaq, a Norwegian-based salmon-farming company.

Located in the traditional territory of the Ahousaht First Nation, the Saranac farm holds 10, 30-by-30-metre pens, each about 15 metres deep, and protected by an inner net, known as a containment or grower net, and an outer net, known as a predator net.

The company grows Atlantic salmon.

Mr. Haughton said accident occurred during a routine harvest after workers accidentally tore a hole in one pen's containment nets with a shackle.

A worker saw Atlantic salmon swimming between the containment and predator net.

Mr. Haughton said workers immediately implemented the company's escape-response plan, informed the provincial government and dropped secondary nets inside the containment pen to plug the hole.

The company called in divers who repaired the hole, which he estimated was about one metre in diameter, he said.

Mr. Haughton said the net pen held about 20,000 Atlantic salmon, and the company will know how many escaped after it counts how many fish remain inside the containment and predator nets.

He said the company is currently dropping gillnets inside the pens.

“There's quite a few thousands still in the pen.

“It's really an unfortunate incident because we have such an excellent record.”

Environmentalists, however, criticized the company and the provincial government for not following through on recommendations made by a provincial government committee to move towards closed containment farms.

“It's another example of the inherent risks of farming salmon in open nets in the ocean,” said Maryjka Mychajlowycz, a campaigner with the Friends of Clayoquot Sound.

“It's companies playing Russian roulette with wild salmon for corporate profit and this is unacceptable.”

“This should be another wake-up call to the B.C. government.”

This past April, the Clayoquot Sound Central Region Board approved a 20-year lease for the Saranac site and eight other Mainstream farms in Clayoquot Sound.

[searun17]

Troutbreath,i hear what you are saying and agree with you regarding the problems with fish farms and yes they need to be dealt with in a appropriate fashion as do other major issues,but this does not mean that the issues that need to be addressed with the rec fisheries should be ignored,there are many problems that plague our resource ,all of which need to be dealt with.There is no easy solution to the problems but we as recreational fisherman should be looking to cleanup our act before we can even think about taking on big business.

[firstlight]

I cant speek for others but for myself the snagging issue has never been about the numbers of fish being caught.
But how they are being caught and the ugliness it has brought to SPORT fishing.
People keep saying that its not the sport fisher that is wiping out stocks and i do agree with that but that doesnt make snagging fish acceptible.
Lets control what we can and let the Government deal with the net issues.

I should have read Searuns comment first as i see we pretty much said the same thing.