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[jetboatjim]

I guess removing gravel from the fraser and lower vedder (they will be digging up the lower vedder this year) is good for the fish and enviornment ?

I guess those big dump trucks and caterpillers dont leak fluid do they?

Do you think the gravel removal is for the good of the sourrounding ares , or  just so the city of chilliwack can get some cold hard cash.

[All Tangled Up]

It's a double edged sword. Without a doubt it is a cash grab but also a necessary evil to avoid 'possible' flooding. Losing some fish for the greater good of humanity is what it's all about. I'm sure if you all lived in the flood plain you'd be singing a different tune. I'm sure there are people much more educated than most making sure the environment is impacted as little as possible. If you all feel that strongly about it why don't you protest the actions of the excavators and stand in from of them so they can't work. Writing complaints on the FWR web site gets absolutely nothing accomplished.

[chris gadsden]

This discussion should most likely be on the correct thread so maybe Rodney will move this and the other related posts to the gravel thread.

Anyway in my humble opinion you could never take enough gravel from the Fraser River to prevent a major flood if one is going to happen. Those that travel the Fraser I think would agree it is just too large an area to try and get enough material out to make a real difference. There would not be enough equipment to accomplish the task anyway and besides it would not be economically feasible to do so. Northwest Hydraulics in the study they did for FOC happens to agree with my first sentence in this paragraph.

[BwiBwi]

Chris has it right.  Depth, width, gradient all play important roll in water flow.  The gradient difference from Chilliwack to Richmond is very small.  If heavy rain occurs that will cause flood at current time it will still cause flood say if you successfully removed enough gravel from Fraser for the entire stretch through hope to Chilliwack.  The discharge rate is still unchanged at Richmond which will still cause flood.

[bentrod]

You are right Chris, you cannot take enough gravel to prevent floods.  In fact, I wonder what kind of liability the Government is assuming by doing this removal.  Say, for example, their actions unintentionally redirect the thalwag, which ends up flooding someone else's property, perhaps some first nation land.  Who's going to knock on the Government's door the next time the river floods, to point out to them that they wasted everyone's time, money and resources for nothing. 

The massive floods that occurred in Washington last month taught many people valuable lessons.  Sure, existing dikes are being rebuilt, but homes are a different story.  In some locations, people are not allowed to rebuild.  In other locations, they can only rebuild if they lift their homes higher.  There have also been cases in history where entire cities were abandoned and relocated to higher ground because of reoccurring catastrophic floods. 

[Rodney]

This week's gravel extraction photos can now be found at:

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/member/gallery/2008-fraser-gravel-extraction

Chris will add comments to them.

[chris gadsden]

This week's gravel extraction photos can now be found at:

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/member/gallery/2008-fraser-gravel-extraction

Chris will add comments to them.

Thanks Rodney. Also thanks to the boys that included Frank who made their first trip to monitor the site on Wednesday taking pictures and video footage. A very brief review of what they saw and worked on.

They found a pile driver at work held in place by 2 tugs driving in piles for the bridge span.

Several culverts were in place as you see in the photo and already they are high and dry, serving no purpose. Is a repeat of the 2006 fiasco going to repeat itself?

The crew did a survey of the site and found several pink redds in the area of concern. They also marked out the present water line for future reference as this project progresses.

We will try to keep you updated as the monitoring of this continues over the months ahead.

Thanks once again to the many concerned groups and people that are dedicated to try and protect our fish stocks and the environment for the future.

[Eagleye]

Just so you know  CBC.ca will soon be offering a place on their website to upload photos and video.

http://www.cbc.ca/bc/news/yourstory/

[Old Black Dog]

 I'm sure if you all lived in the flood plain you'd be singing a different tune.

They moved onto a FLOOD PLAIN?

What did they expect?

[Rodney]

Posting photos from this weekend for Chris, his comments to follow.

[chris gadsden]

Frank along with SDA, BCWF members and a documentary film maker visited the site again this past Saturday. They noticed the water level as receded from 2 feet to close to 12 feet, depending on the ground contours. New marker stakes were driven in so as to continue monitor the water elevations

A road / ramp has been built so equipment can be loaded on barges and taken to the other side of the channel.

Two previous culverts have now been removed and replaced by 2 larger ones. The crew noticed they were basically hanging dry and serving no purposes at this time.

5 pilings now driven in with significant white water has been created behind them due to the strong current of the channel.

On going ashore Frank tried to ascertain if the environment monitors were on site there but in trying to find out he was met by a person from the contractor. The person did not coperation that well with Frank and was told to go to the Seabird Band office every time he tried to ask a question. Therefore they could not determine if the monitors were actually there making sure the construction is being done properly.

The contractor also asked Frank and crew to go no further and leave this part of the site immediately, which they did.

The pictures above are a few of the 100 they took.

Once again anyone that wishes to help out please contact Frank as many more trips are to be taken in the weeks ahead.

[chris gadsden]

Frank wanted me to add the fellow that came out to talk to him was courteous to him as was Frank. The group that is concerned about this project want to work together with the contractor on this as much as possible.

Frank also said he has been told by others that they had no authority to ask him to leave as they came in by boat and were within the highwater mark of the river.

If they were coming in by land it indeed would be proper to ask permission which we were told by FOC would be granted if we asked at the Seabird band office.

[bentrod]

So now that there's pile driving, we can also add direct impacts of sound pressure to the list of what's killing the fish.  Was anyone set up down stream while they were driving pile?  Don't be surprised to see some floaters.  This sound pressure can travel hundreds of miles in open salt water and would do the same in a river if it was't impeded by corners and shorelines.  Even if a bubble curtain was used, there'd still be mortality.   

[mattcass]

Had a chat with people 'in the know' a few days ago. I'm not too sure how pertinent this information is but yes, fish are in the gravel and there will definitely be dead fish. The BC government has an R.P. Bio on site monitoring the operation. The BC government regulations supersede DFO so this is entirely a BC government matter. The BC government could shut the whole thing down if they wanted to without any problems...

[bentrod]

Were there any fish exclusion efforts prior to the gravel extraction?  I know it may have been a huge undertaking, but they could have netted off this huge bar in the first place to keep fish from spawning there.  They could have also waited for the alevin to grow up a little then sein or shock the fingerlings to move them out of the impact area.  It just seems to me that there was little to no advanced environmental planning with this project.  They are just pushing it through under the guise of the approaching threat of  spring freshet floods.