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[Nicole]

the problem with a lot of the lower river is just that,  people dont circulate and move through runs,  they have planted roots and created fossils of their wading boots into the rocks?  sometimes that is a good strategy but i beleive that hunting them from run to run is the ultimate way to steelhead as it keeps you on your game.

What would you think of rotational angling only regs from Jan 1st - April 30th from the Vedder bridge down to the highway?

That would be sweet, and it would allow for more pressure to filter through, and keep the frustration levels down.

It's not salmon fishing, and most people fish like they're targetting salmon.

Cheers,
Nicole

[tnt]

What about Spot closures at the meatholes on the river... they used to do it on the island... close off the really popular runs top of the riffle to the tailout...

[Rodney]

a few comments,  tnt  i dont believe there are a lot of fish around at all right now,  this could change as its still early but if you left the lower river you would know mid upper and upper are not holding a lot of fish and thats a definite fact as evidenced by the campers at the slab who have fished that spot/area for many years, theyre simply not getting there (picked off in lower) or just not enough of them in system yet.

Isn't it kind of ironic that on one hand you have been pressuring others to avoid hotspotting on internet forums, yet you just pointed out that only the Lower Vedder River is productive to everyone on the internet? Or is it reverse psychology... Maybe there are more fish in the mid and upper rivers, so Cammer has posted that to draw people away from the fish he intends to catch soon? Would the lower river be much more busier this weekend after Cammer has pointed out that it is more productive on the internet forum? It's 3am in Europe and I am sleepless and bored.

As for different regulations for lower meatholes,  i just dont think that any agency would want to try to enforce anything like that,  thats up to us as proper etiquette proprietors to properly show the way

Absolutely, etiquettes is not enforceable therefore they cannot be made into regulations. Rotational fishery may suit perfectly for many of us, but one needs to consider that our freshwater fisheries are not utilized by age and skill-specific groups. Senior anglers cannot participate in rotational fisheries due to mobility. Once you start regulating how much time people should fish a section of the river and how fast their walking pace should be, the line is no longer drawn.

Rodney, a positive experience means a lot of different things to different people. Most experienced fisherman i know that have fished at least 10 to 15 yrs locally, would not consider the lower river NOW to be anything near a positve experience. They all fish bridge up now do to many factors. 3 years ago, the Lickman area started to get really really crowded and i believe since then its been a "no go" as fence posters are now everywhere from Peach to KWB, before that i found it quite fishable and etiquette friendly area to fish

One has to remember that time has changed, the fishery has evolved (not necessarily better, but not necessarily worse either). Of course the fishing experience is better a couple of decades ago. More fish are targeted by less anglers in the same amount of fishing area. The Metro Vancouver population has grown from just over 1 million to 2.1 million since the early 80s. This staggering growth mixed with the ongoing marketing strategy by the Freshwater Fisheries Society to boost license sale would of course result in the sharp growth of the Chilliwack fishery. The Chilliwack River system is the most productive fishery that is the closest to Vancouver. It is rather naive to expect the Vedder scene to remain the same as a couple decades ago. There are plenty of anglers out there who have managed to adapt to this evolution and continue doing well. If solitude is such an important component in one's fishing experience, do what I do, venture to systems where harvest is not allowed. That being said, my Vedder experience, particularly at the section you've mentioned has been more good than bad. If pursuing enjoyment in fishing becomes unenjoyable, perhaps stopping fishing is the best alternative.

The primary focus should be on better communication between anglers so everyone is on the same page in regards to regulations and etiquettes. Mutual respect needs to be there, otherwise everyone goes home as losers. Contrary to what some may want to believe, internet forums can in fact be the solution instead of the problem. By assisting and informing newcomers in a respectful manner, positive changes will be seen on the waters in the long run.

The secondary focus should be on developing more similar fisheries that would spread out the angling pressure, which is not going away because the population of Metro Vancouver will continue growing.

[tnt]

Cammer I have been fishing the mid river with really decent results... seeing Chris on the lower produce my 12th fish to the beach in seven trips plus at least a half dozen lost or so...but typically I have not been fishing the lower... the upper has always produced well towards the end of January... my brother has five fish in the last 6 days from up top...he likes the upper better than I do... I have also noticed this year that the fish are biting extremely aggresively... I am still fishing 12 LB leader and a 1/0 with a 40g PIKER...
To each there own... we just have to avoid the meatholes, the river will never be the way it used to be, and we just have to accept that... most people will have no ettiquette and we just have to be OK with that!...learn to Adapt....we all have to... remember 90 percent of the fish are caught by 10 percent of the fisherman...

[Xgolfman]

Today was busier then any weekend so far, I thought I could sneak off for a change on a weekday and try a few spots with my spey that I don't normally go to...It was a gauntlet up there...stopped aways down lower and just looked...even holes that you might see one or two guys at were shoulder to shoulder today...I didn't see many younger guys, mostly old timers and they weren't moving...I fished a spey friendly spot with some movement through it and one planted firmly at the top...That was the only spot I saw anyone move through....Pretty much a bad joke, lost one fish too, made it worse..

[Bobber]

Let be honest, the bar fishing minded type guys, nothing wrong with bar fisherman, but we are talking steelhead manners here folks. Its over I say, when you have the Lower Lickman Crowd with their centre-pins, sage rods and elbo to elbo, now tell me is that a good day on the river? It hurts to see the older fellows who used to fish this river for the last forty years get caught up in this fiasco. Sorry to say but the Vedder River System has seen its better days and there are not many left. Oh yeah and make sure you take out or pick up your GARBAGE!!!

[searun17]

The vedder isn't the only system that has seen changes over the years,many of the systems to one extent or another have seen similar changes,except maybe some of the more isolated systems,and not to the extent that the vedder has,so what do we do,do we try and come up with a solution to take us back in time and  fix some of the more negative aspects of our fishery{that in my opinion will be a very difficult task} or do we just hang up our gear and take up another pastime,or possibly we could just try and adapt to what is going on and enjoy what we have instead of worrying about what we used to have and how it used to be on the river,i know its hard to forget the good ole days,but they are gone forever,or we could choose to spend our time on websites like this and just bitch about it,for me i enjoy the sport and the outdoors so i choose to try and adapt instead of worrying about all the negative changes that we deal with today,this doesn't mean i don't yearn for the way it was 20 or more years ago  because i do,i bet all those oltimers with sages and center pins fishing elbow to elbow would love to see it the way it used to be,but it cant be so instead of hanging up the old rod n reel they begrudgingly choose to adapt and fish on.

[Jamison Jay]

I actually am loving the fencepost fishers this year. I think it's great to have all different types of methods to fishing the river. If we all ratated through runs surely there would still be bottle necking as I know we all have our own speed. With some guys fence posting it allows us others to simply go around them So far everytime I've encountered guys standing in the middle of a run and not moving, when asked, said they had no intentions of fishing the tail-out and I was welcome to go below, go figure.

[mastercaster]

or do we just hang up our gear and take up another pastime,

Yes, I thnk that would be a great idea for everyone.....might I suggest needle point, perhaps a rousing game of Scrabble or a 12 weekend tournament of it, gardening might be to your liking, stamp or coin collecting can be a very satisfying past time, that strong casting arm transfers nicely into bowling, darts is a challenging avtivitiy....I could go on.

My mom said I was always a selfish child......I blame it on my dad...he, too, hated crowded rivers.

[adriaticum]

Nicole, and others, we don't need any more rules!
If you don't think someone is doing a good job by standing in one spot and fishing all day, talk to him, make an effort and educate the person.
That will work.
Jamming more rules down people's throats has the opposite effect.
Don't you think!?

[greybark]

  OK as I see it some young fisher will ask me to move so they can fish thru because of the "exaulted rotation rule" . Well well I am 70 years old and have fished the Vedder since the sixties . Rotate , hell I bareily made just to the rivers edge and some youngster wants to move (rotate) . Most just go around me and lots often stop for a chat . The only thing that has changed from fishing the good old days is the "Elitest Attitude " of many to-days fishers . The use of various tackle and the way one fishes is rated with a snob rating . There are more important things in life to worry about but I appreciate the excuberance of youth that are really involved and want to protect the quality of the  fishery . To those I say do it but don`t forget this unique fishery belongs to all . It is not just about the catching of a steelhead which to many is bragging rights versus an unique experience .
   To get back on thread this Rotation thing is your choise and I do consider it a good thing but it is not a "Rule" . I believe the rotation thing originates from the private rivers of Scotland that catered to those who could afford it and river ethics were written in stone . How one would impose such strict rotational control on the Vedder is beyond me but pleasent public discourse may be a comprimise .
   

[Nicole]

Rotational angling as a general rule among anglers exists on a number of rivers in BC, and this generally revolves around steelhead fisheries... The Bulkley, Dean, Thompson are rivers that come to mind, and it really does work. You can show up on the river bank at any time of day and roll through a run.

Greybark, this is not the sixties anymore, the number of anglers on the vedder has exploded as I am sure you have noticed. There has to be a way to deal with the problem, I am suggesting the lower half only, not the whole river. 

I really think this would work!

That elitist comment is getting very tired, both gear fishers and fly anglers would benefit from this. I've seen many statues out there with a flyrod too... Lets move on from that whole arguement, please?

Any other thoughts?
Nicole

[Nicole]

Fish and Wildlife Branch
Angling Ethics 
 
 
 
Rotational Angling
Courtesy and Common Sense – Enjoying the Experience and sharing the Opportunity.

As angling pressures increase because of population growth, expanding recreational time and improved access to our rivers and streams, the need for courtesy and an angling code of conduct has become more evident.

"Rotation angling" is a system designed to encourage everyone on a stretch of river to fish sequentially through it, whether wading or from a boat. It was designed to allow each angler an equal opportunity to spend some time in the prime pools and riffles. Simply stated, it means starting at the head of a pool or run and following the immediate downstream angler at a courteous distance, with everyone progressing at a reasonable pace.

While rotation angling is not applicable to all waters and conditions, it has become an accepted practice on many of our Classified Waters.

The basic rules are:

-Avoid entering the water downstream of another angler who is already fishing, unless invited to do so;
-Leave adequate room between the downstream angler and yourself but do not remain stationary unless no one is following you;
-After catching a fish, step out of the line and return to the head of the pool, or start of the line;
-If you are not sure about the local etiquette, avoid any problems by first inquiring about the procedures from the anglers already on the water.

Rotation angling is a system, which can work well regardless of gear type, so long as each angler respects the others' methods.
 
 

[chris gadsden]

Actually I find a rotating type of angling more productive way to fish. I find in a lot of cases I get most of my fish on the first few casts into a different part of a run or when I first arrive at a new spot. Out of the 6 fish I have had on this season this was the case each time.

 The only time I donot rotate or move around is during the steelhead season is when I am waiting around or am a old cedar fence post in a meat hole where there is hardly any momement anyway as I try and get a donated fish from someone for the brood stock program.

[Rodney]

I don't think Greybark's "elitist" remark (good contribution to the forum by the way, not just because I agree but also nice to have opinions from older anglers mixed with the young ones) is directed at flyfishermen. He's referring to a particular attitude that is developing among younger steelhead anglers from the competitiveness. Competition can be healthy, as long as respect is given between everyone.

From my observations of the growth of quite a few young anglers on the discussion forum in the last several years, I can relate to what Greybark was implying. Some have become experienced and familiar with the Chilliwack River fishery after taking in advices from others, but they seem to have forgotten the grassroot of fishing. New fishers are frowned upon. Someone new and not familiar with the Vedder, stands at one spot to fish, is frowned upon. Someone catches his very first steelhead and is extremely excited, makes a mistake by holding the fish wrongly so he could capture the joy that we have all experienced, gets bashed upon as if we want to humiliate the person instead of helping him to understand. Instead of helping those who we once were, we decide to exclude them because the river is already too busy, hoping that eventually they would just go away. Some go as far as judging a person without know him or her by rating the clothings, rod and reel, terminal tackle, as Greybark has pointed out. I don't actually call this "elitism" anymore, the word is used so often that it kind of has lost its meaning. This is poor attitude, and it's unfortunately shooting in our own foot.

Rotational fishery would certainly be a welcoming practice, which I would love to see too so I can have a chance to fish where I normally can't fish. However, the unfortunate reality is that the Vedder River fishery has become an entry-level fishery due to the relatively higher amount of fish, opportunity to harvest and short distance from a densely populated area. Remote rivers are normally accessed by more skilled and experienced anglers who already have the background knowledge on such etiquettes, therefore it shouldn't be a surprise to see it being practiced. As long as the Vedder River is opened to anglers of all skill levels and age groups, it would be hard to request everyone to engage in it, nevermind regulating and enforcing it. For anglers such as Greybark, they should be able to stand at their spot and fish for a long period of time without being frowned upon or harrassed. For anglers who seem to be new to the fishery, a friendly chat followed by some recommendation on what they should do to fish successfully would benefit everyone.