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[Little Hawk]

Howdy,

First off I'd like to extend my heartfelt appreciation to Rodney for bumping my original recruitment post to the nearly obscure Discussion forum.

I'm pushing this cause on four separate forums at present and have recieved tremendous support and encouragement thus far.

What you have done Rodney amounts to censorship. You have taken a topic which is near and dear to the hearts of many, if not all, ardent sportfisherman, and moved it to the backburner... out of sight, out of mind.

Perhaps you need to learn more about the havoc the net-pen industry is raining upon our beloved wild salmon. If you knew what I know, you - same as two other forums have done - would have pinned my post at the top of your most popular forum.

I'm counting on people like you, Rodney, to help me 'Sink-the-fishfarms!'

Cheers,
Terry Anderson

Wild Salmon Alliance

 

[Rodney]

 

[Rodney]

Perhaps you need to find out how much I know and am involved before concluding that I ned to learn about the havoc the net-pen industry is raining upon our beloved wild salmon. Somehow you have acquired the ability to read my mind.

Firstly, this is not a public discussion forum but a private business. You are here as a guest and should conudct yourself as one. The moderators reserve the right to move, delete, edit content to assure that the discussion forum is running smoothly. Although an important issue, you've disregarded other guests' priveleges on this discussion forum by bumping the topic up each day, even when it was still on the first page. FYI, an excessively bumped thread is an useless thread, which receive no attention by members who already know what the new replies are in the thread without clicking on it. I certainly would not go to a tacklestore everyday, put up a poster of my project over others on the bulletin board. Same scenario, except one's virtual while the other's physical.

Secondly, I've provided plenty of contacts who your group may want to hook up with. It's an alliance after all. Not so interested, that's ok, it's not like there are already so many groups going at different directions on the same problem. Having the post stickied and put in a board dedicated to environmental issues were requested. That's fine, I moved it and put it on the top of that board for you just as BCFR has done. It's a less-used board but primarily used by both fishermen and fish stewards who check for updates. It's linked from the email that I occasionally send out to the stewardship mailing list. Instead of contacting me directly by email to express your concern, you have the nerve to imply that I have censored your cause because I am uneducated when it comes to the salmon farm issue.

Why don't we pin up a thread on Fraser River gravel extraction, a thread on overharvesting on commercial groundfish and salmon fisheries, a thread on headwater mining and deforestation, a thread on flossing in salmon streams, a thread on poaching, a thread on littering, a thread on funding cuts by DFO, a thread on commercial by-catch of steelhead in Northern BC?

Perhaps you need to listen and learn how to make an alliance before forming an alliance. My support will now go to those existing groups that are strongly recognized in the media (eg. Raincoast Research Society), and the groups that I already belong to and support (eg. Fraser Valley Salmon Society).

[Little Hawk]

Howdy,

Rodney;

Forgive me please for being presumptous or rude towards you. I should also take this opportunity to applaud all you have done thus far in your life in support of Conservation; our Wild Salmon need more people like you.

In actuality, I suppose it was just my frustration getting the best of me, causing me to shoot my mouth off like that.

Jeeze... the nerve of me, getting all upset at you for bumping my plea for help from a Forum-page with over 5500 topics to one with 129...

Good on you to set me straight... here, for all to see.

However, before you edit or 'bump' this post into oblivion, allow me to take this opportunity to clarify a couple of points with you.

- I did not come here to be disrespectful or to make waves. I came here to recruit my fellow Sportfisherman to join me for a worthy cause. I'm sorry this cause is not at or near the top of your list of things you would like to fix with our fish.

- Not once, in this campaign to 'SINK-THE-FISHFARMS' have I stated or presumed that fishfarming is the ONLY issue affecting our Wild Pacific Salmon. Thank you for enlightenign me, but I was not born yesterday. Fishfarming is something we can and will do something about today, that will provide some immediate and much deserved respite for these great fishes.

- You have maligned my plea's for help, labeling it - "excessively bumped... useless thread... receive no attention".
   Who is being disrespectful?

- Your suggestion that our 'Alliance' fall in with other currently active oppostiton groups carries - I'm sorry - no steam with me.
  I have been involved in the opposition to this filthy business for nearly eight years. I have watched, and listened, and learned,
  and writen more on the subject than on any other topic thus far in my life. After all the scientific evidence has been tabled;
  after all the environmental groups, First Nations, commercial fishermen and general public have done their screaming against
  this industry - WE STILL HAVE FISHFARMING!

  My efforts to organize BC's Sportfishermen against the fishfarmers might be what it takes to get the job done. If others, be
  they individuals, or existing groups want to join this effort - they are more than welcome.

  Where those who've trod before us have failed... we shall succeed, with, or without your support Rodney.

  "May you always catch bigger-fish than me."

  Cheers,
 
  Terry Anderson

   Wild Salmon Alliance

 

[SeaRun]

Hello Rodney!   

"Join the War on Fishfarming?"  Is that like joining the "War on Terrorism?"  I think we have to logically look at the all of  facts which are responsible for the decline of B.C.'s wild salmonids.   This is the result of many factors which have been compounding over many years.   In the late 1800's, people believed that there was an endless supply of salmon.   The canneries could not keep up with the amount of salmon being caught by commercial fishing and salmon were frequently dumped overboard.  It has also been documented that English Bay "stunk" with the decay of rotten salmon which were dumped into the Fraser and washed up on the English Bay beaches.  No one at the time knew that B.C's "endless" supply of salmon would steadily decline over the next century.

Overfishing by commercial, sport, First Nations all contributed to the decline of our salmonids.   The rapid growth of B.C.'s populations also contributed with the increase in pollution, logging, loss of habitat, etc...   Salmon farming is a new comer to the scene and would probably not take roots in our coastal waters if the wild salmonids were still abundant.   Studies on the effects of salmon farms on benthic fauna directly below the net pens have been documented.  Reports indicate that the area below the pens are "barren" causing a lot of opposition to fish farms.   If one looks at the larger picture, the amount of municipal sewage going into our waters is much greater in volume and also includes a lot of toxins and heavy metals.   

For example, one sewage treatment plant at the mouth of the Fraser only does primary treatment which involves screening large particles & aeration to induce sewage breakdown by bacteria.  The effluent basically ran out a channel along side of the jetty over the Fraser mud flats.   DFO studies showed that during a flood tide, the effluent was pushed back over the shallow flats causing an anoxic (low oxygen) condition killing juvenile salmonids & other marine life. To "solve" this problem, the effluent now drains into deep water through pipes.  Should we not address this more important problem first?   Perhaps we should spend the money on secondary sewage treatment?   After all, the population of the Lower Mainland will continue to increase.

I grew up & fished extensively in the Lower Mainland over the last 40 yrs.   Unfortunately, I have seen a lot of changes which have caused our salmonid stocks to decline over the years.   The Sunshine Coast was once a prime saltwater fishing area until the late 70's.   Where are all of the salmon, bottomfish, & herring now?   In the past, chum, pink, & sockeye were not allowed to be kept in freshwater since there were enough coho & chinook. 

We should not allow our emotions to overcome our abilities to logically examine all of the facts and options since managing B.C's salmonids is very complicated.   Just thinks what would happen if no one was living in B.C. for the next few hundred years... most of of salmonids would return.



     

[Nina]

SeaRun, I think you missed the point of Rodneys post. Little Hawk too, for that matter. Rodney is not debating whether fishfarming is bad or not, he is simply questioning the methods which Little Hawk is using to get his message across.

[SeaRun]

Hello Nina!   

No, I did not miss the point on Rodney's post... I read both Rodney's & Little Hawks' posts several times & agree with Rodney's reply to Little Hawks post.   My post states that there has been a steady decline in B.C. salmon stocks over the century for many reasons which are essentially caused by humans.   Salmon farming is a more recent problem and would not have become established to the level today if our wild salmon population was healthy.   There is no point blaming only salmon farms when the other problems continue to affect salmonids.   

One possible solution for salmon farms would be to establish closed systems on land.   Basically, raising salmon in tanks where the waste products would be removed & used as agricultural fertilizer & the water treated.   How do you think all of the trout sold in stores are raised?  It may be expensive initially, however, there would be no problems with escapes due to predation or torn nets.   The sea lice problem would probably be nonexistent.   The long term benefit to the fish farmers would be a more stable production of fish for the market.   

Over the years there has been constant finger pointing by all user group.  If we want to a healthy salmonid population on this coast and a fishery for our future generations, then we have to identify all of the factors affecting salmonids and plan long term solutions without letting our emotions take control.

[Little Hawk]

Howdy,

I said it before and I'll say it again.

"I did not come here to make waves or be disrespectful to anyone."

If this needs to be said in a more understandable way, please advise.

I haven't been able to figure out exactly what it was I said or did that seems to have turned off so many here.

I am what I am: a simple Sportfisherman just like all of you whose finally had enough of the fishfarming thing and is actively trying to do something about it. I've realized the time to sit around and ... "logically look at all the facts responsible for the decline in BC's salmonids..." has long since passed.

On the fishfarming thing - clearly, it's time for ACTION.

I didn't come here to be judged or have my angle-of-attack scruitinized.
I didn't come here asking for money.
Nor did I come here to defame other groups or individuals who are already working hard in oppostion to fishfarming.

I'm one guy - standing here with my fishing rod - trying to reach out to my fellow Sportfisherman to join me in a worthy cause to alleviate some pressure off our beleagured Wild Salmon and slap our government up the side of the head to refocus them on what's important.

Clearly, fishing for new members is failing miserably on this site.

Thank God for the response from the members on the SportfishingBC.com/Forum.
They've banged my topic over 5000-hits and provided over 90% of the 'Alliances' membership since Jan 1st.

Peace... and good fishing to all.

Cheers,
Terry Anderson

Wild Salmon Alliance



 

[Rodney]

Hi SeaRun, good posts. I should have closed this thread awhile ago because the topic is misleading because it has more to do with why the original thread was moved than fish farming. The actual thread of this topic has been moved to:

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=16908.0

I will close this thread now and in a few days I will merge your posts into that other thread so they stay with the same topic. My thoughts on predatory fish farming's impact at the global scale can be found in numerous other threads in the forum archive. Not so much focus on the local short term problems that others have been repeating, but more to do with the trophic level shifting in the ocean of both northern and southern hemispheres (since farm food is harvested from the south).

Clearly, fishing for new members is failing miserably on this site.

Good way to motivate your potential supporters.

Thank God for the response from the members on the SportfishingBC.com/Forum.
They've banged my topic over 5000-hits and provided over 90% of the 'Alliances' membership since Jan 1st.

Then perhaps you should utilize all of your effort and time over there instead of here.

My only problem sat on why this thread was first started. I chose to let you have the last words by ceasing replying since we clearly will not agree with each other (on this matter, not on the fish farming issue), so people can actually focus on fish farming instead of this. Somehow you've chosen to bring it up again after SeaRun has attempted to bring back the topic of fish farming. I guess it takes a topic lock in the risk of being labeled censorship after all to end it. For those who are interested, again the original topic is at:

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=16908.0

Good luck.