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[fish321]

the purpose of the hatchery cutthroat is to provide a harvest fishery. They are not designed to augment a wild population. As in the past if walp feels that if these hatchery fish are not being utilized properly in a harvest fishery. They can and will decide to either curtail or remove production of these fish as to not allow them to compete with wild spawning populations. So one should have no guilt if they see fit to take the odd hatchery fish home for supper.

[fossil]

the purpose of the hatchery cutthroat is to provide a harvest fishery. They are not designed to augment a wild population. As in the past if walp feels that if these hatchery fish are not being utilized properly in a harvest fishery. They can and will decide to either curtail or remove production of these fish as to not allow them to compete with wild spawning populations. So one should have no guilt if they see fit to take the odd hatchery fish home for supper.

new point, very interesting  and usefull discussion! just as Rodney said, love to read the posts and learn more...

Marmot,  I think 10 per day is not impossible at this time, we counted at least 40 cutts spread in some holes on 2KM river, and got 4 (1 wild). a fly fisherman  got 6 hooked last weekend(Jan19), all are hatcherys, so--9:1 

[Gooey]

Fish321, I can see your last post was your first, welcome to the forum!  You made a comment "the purpose of the hatchery cutthroat is to provide a harvest fishery".  Can you substantiate that?  Lots of the vocal members here have been on the board for many years and we know eachothers back grounds...anyone can have an opion (I have lots  ) but before I put any weight behind a comment someone chooses to share, I like to know a little more about the source ...care to share a bit about yourself/back ground?

As anexample, I can't see the cutty stocking activities on the seymour or chehalis being activities that would be classified as ones designed to "provide a harvest fishery" so I was hoping you could quantify your statement for us?

[marmot]

Fossil, 10 per day is not impossible at this time.  I had a 9 fish day a few weeks ago.  But this is not the norm.....and neither is 2-3 lbs average for these fish...especially this time of year.  And again, if you are experiencing that, time to start gambling!!

[fish321]

 I suppose that I have assumed cutthroat and steelhead follow the same management principals. Since it is common knowledge the the ministry has decided that hatchery steelhead are not to be used and are not effective to restore a population. They are only used in areas that can provide a fishery a not over impact the wild population(eg. Vedder, Stamp etc..) In areas where they do not contribute to a harvest fishery most programs have been discontinued(eg. coquihalla, east coast van isle streams,Squamish etc..).

[4x4]

Nothing wrong with taking a hatchery Cutthroat if that is what you want to do.
Just make sure the fish you decide to kill is in good condition. Let the hatchery spawner's go. They are not good eating and the smoker won't cure that problem.

[coho_killer]

I don't think anyone here should presume to think that the cutthroat populations of the fraser and its subsystems are healthy....what are you comparing this to?  When the guys who have been targeting cutthroat on the fraser and harrison for 50+ years say that the populations are in serious decline and not what they used to be, maybe we should listen and act appropriately.  And why would they not be? With declines in salmon stocks (and therefore the flesh, eggs and fry), it is common sense that cutthroat populations are in turn being affected. 

CK I highly doubt your experience last time out was a representative one.  If it was, you should quit fishing and take up gambling.

MARMOT it's comments like that that make me laugh! Do you know me? NO! Who are you to say what i catch and don't catch? Were you there? Notice i never named the systems i was fishing? You have your right to your own opinion as does everyone else, but in all honesty, do you think if the cutthroat weRE in that much trouble the retention would be ZERO?  I've been a vey lucky angler over the years! I do my homework and i know when and where to fish through out the year! I keep a journal on what was caught on my outings, as well as what was used! Marmot doubt all ya want i have no reason to lie about my outings maybe you have to have a day or 2 like mine to truly respect this fishery! Good luck and tight lines!

                                                                                                                                                          CK

[Rodney]

MARMOT it's comments like that that make me laugh! Do you know me? NO! Who are you to say what i catch and don't catch? Were you there? Notice i never named the systems i was fishing? You have your right to your own opinion as does everyone else, but in all honesty, do you think if the cutthroat weRE in that much trouble the retention would be ZERO?  I've been a vey lucky angler over the years! I do my homework and i know when and where to fish through out the year! I keep a journal on what was caught on my outings, as well as what was used! Marmot doubt all ya want i have no reason to lie about my outings maybe you have to have a day or 2 like mine to truly respect this fishery! Good luck and tight lines!

CK, I think you've misinterpreted what Marmot was trying to say in his last post. He's not doubting your success in the latest outings or your angling skill, but he's suggesting that such trips misrepresent the cutthroat fishery as the success rate is generally low (ie. out of 100 trips, less than 10 of those maybe days like you've experienced).

[troutbreath]

Before the Ferry ran out of Port Hardy we fished off the Government dock for sea run cutties. We used the pile perch cut in strips to catch them and you would get 50 or so chasing your bait. The faster you reeled, the bigger the Cutty was that would get hooked. Unfortunately they didn't taste that great. So I never kept many until I hit a nearby lake that had oodles of them in there. Those lake Cutties were much better tasting than the sea ones. I never liked the ones from the Harrison either, but none went to waste because I always had a hound around.

Anyway if they are some hatchery fish you want to eat, fill your boots Bobby. You haven't tasted good fish if you think their good.

[Colorado Grinner]

Im very new to this whole forum thing.I think its so neat how you can ask "hows the fishing been",a guy posts a couple pics.and bam its a red hot topic of ethics.I never realized there was such a controversy over the #s of SRC,this has really educated me alot on this subject.If a hatchery fish is able to spawn in any system doesent that make more wild fish that we can all pursue in the future?

[marmot]

MARMOT it's comments like that that make me laugh! Do you know me? NO! Who are you to say what i catch and don't catch? Were you there? Notice i never named the systems i was fishing? You have your right to your own opinion as does everyone else, but in all honesty, do you think if the cutthroat weRE in that much trouble the retention would be ZERO?  I've been a vey lucky angler over the years! I do my homework and i know when and where to fish through out the year! I keep a journal on what was caught on my outings, as well as what was used! Marmot doubt all ya want i have no reason to lie about my outings maybe you have to have a day or 2 like mine to truly respect this fishery! Good luck and tight lines!

CK, I think you've misinterpreted what Marmot was trying to say in his last post. He's not doubting your success in the latest outings or your angling skill, but he's suggesting that such trips misrepresent the cutthroat fishery as the success rate is generally low (ie. out of 100 trips, less than 10 of those maybe days like you've experienced).

Thanks Rodney, yes, completely misinterpreted.  I don't doubt that you did exceptionally well CK, and good going, its nice to see people catching...  I'm saying if you did this well all the time, I would say you have been very lucky, as this is not the experience most people have going after these fish.  As for retention being zero, no, I don't expect that DFO given their reactive nature lately would have the foresight to make such a move...nor do I see that as a solution.  I'd far rather see a bait ban, just my opinion.

[blaydRnr]

In BC though, the hatcheries are not run to create fishing opportunities at best they increase angling opportunities or augment the natural population.  Cutties are a good example of a hatchery produced fish that isn't spawned to create an angling opportunity (unlike clipped coho/chinook/steelhead/etc).  If you look at the impact we have had on natural populations of any creature, then I would say its a safe guess that these cutties are spawned to ensure the natural population doesn't disappear.  But based on the production numbers, its safe to say cutties are spawned to create angling opportunities.

not to butt heads with ya  .....but....just like fish321, can you substantiate what you're claiming? seems you get just as much info based on here say and alot of feedback from old timers and avid cutt fishermen without hard numbers to back you up.  this is not to dispute nor contradict what has been observed by them, but just an attempt to achieve fair play and accuracy of what is being claimed.  if what you say is true then there should be a moratorium on cutt retention on the chehalis....just like what they've got in place for the cultus lake sockeye on the vedder.....or better yet, just like the sturgeon on the largest system here in bc. 

"cutties are a good example of a hatchery produced fish that isn't spawned to create an angling opportunity"......."but based on the production numbers, its safe to say cutties are spawned to create angling opportunities."   WTF     which is it? one or the other can't be both.

[Gooey]

BR, a lot of the the comments I made came from the 104 page report on cutty populations/etc...did you read any of that? 

Heres the link again: http://www.shim.bc.ca/cutthroat/ct.pdf

As well, I have commercial fished, sport fished salmon and steelhead (for more than 20 years), volunteered at the seymour hatchery (on and off since 2002), I took genetics courses up to 3rd year, etc.  A lot of my comments come from things I pick up from people involved in the industry like a family friend who (last time I checked) is on the board of the Greater Georgia Basin Steelhead Recovery Program as well as one of the directors of the Seymour hatchery. 

Anyhow, I wanted to address a statement Coho Killer made:" if the cutthroat weRE in that much trouble the retention would be ZERO? "
 
As Marmot points out, DFO and MOE are both very REACTIVE. Just look at the sockeye fishery or even better yet, east coast cod...these guys have proven time and again that they are reactive not proactive.  The seymour hatchery fought a long time to have the steelhead run closed to retention ( JUST LAST YEAR IT WAS OPEN FOR 2 FISH A DAY)!!!  Certainly the seymour can't have a healthier population of steelhead than the vedder, but for the longest time it was a 2 fish daily limit!  Another prime example of the management team you place so much faith in, not having a clue.

[coho_killer]

MARMOT it's comments like that that make me laugh! Do you know me? NO! Who are you to say what i catch and don't catch? Were you there? Notice i never named the systems i was fishing? You have your right to your own opinion as does everyone else, but in all honesty, do you think if the cutthroat weRE in that much trouble the retention would be ZERO?  I've been a vey lucky angler over the years! I do my homework and i know when and where to fish through out the year! I keep a journal on what was caught on my outings, as well as what was used! Marmot doubt all ya want i have no reason to lie about my outings maybe you have to have a day or 2 like mine to truly respect this fishery! Good luck and tight lines!

CK, I think you've misinterpreted what Marmot was trying to say in his last post. He's not doubting your success in the latest outings or your angling skill, but he's suggesting that such trips misrepresent the cutthroat fishery as the success rate is generally low (ie. out of 100 trips, less than 10 of those maybe days like you've experienced).

Thanks Rodney, yes, completely misinterpreted.  I don't doubt that you did exceptionally well CK, and good going, its nice to see people catching...  I'm saying if you did this well all the time, I would say you have been very lucky, as this is not the experience most people have going after these fish.  As for retention being zero, no, I don't expect that DFO given their reactive nature lately would have the foresight to make such a move...nor do I see that as a solution.  I'd far rather see a bait ban, just my opinion.

Aparently i took that the wrong way and i'm sorry! I see your point but myself and others would disagree! But none the less there a beauty fish to target and i hope my kids can have and share the same fishery for cutthroat that i do! And everyone else for that matter!  It seems to me there will always be heated arguments over these fish and for good reason! A healthy debate is always good so i can hear what other members think and get input on what we can do to keep this fishery around for many years to come!

[blaydRnr]

BR, a lot of the the comments I made came from the 104 page report on cutty populations/etc...did you read any of that? 

Heres the link again: http://www.shim.bc.ca/cutthroat/ct.pdf

As well, I have commercial fished, sport fished salmon and steelhead (for more than 20 years), volunteered at the seymour hatchery (on and off since 2002), I took genetics courses up to 3rd year, etc.  A lot of my comments come from things I pick up from people involved in the industry like a family friend who (last time I checked) is on the board of the Greater Georgia Basin Steelhead Recovery Program as well as one of the directors of the Seymour hatchery. 

Anyhow, I wanted to address a statement Coho Killer made:" if the cutthroat weRE in that much trouble the retention would be ZERO? "
 
As Marmot points out, DFO and MOE are both very REACTIVE. Just look at the sockeye fishery or even better yet, east coast cod...these guys have proven time and again that they are reactive not proactive.  The seymour hatchery fought a long time to have the steelhead run closed to retention ( JUST LAST YEAR IT WAS OPEN FOR 2 FISH A DAY)!!!  Certainly the seymour can't have a healthier population of steelhead than the vedder, but for the longest time it was a 2 fish daily limit!  Another prime example of the management team you place so much faith in, not having a clue.

sorry to tell you this, but everything in life is reactive whether you choose to accept it or not...nothing in life is perfect....but without basic guidelines (like regs) then how can you manage any resource without anarchy and lawlessness? you speak of your experience and background, then how about an insight of what you would do if you were in charge? what changes would you make? what viable approach would you take that would please everyone?