Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[marmot]

You are lucky they were all mouth hooked....they take so aggressively that sometimes they will even take a fly deep.  Like others here I would urge you to use the flyrod.  I have had most success in early season on simple attractor patterns, and when it is cold like this a bead head never hurts to get it down a little lower.  I've been into about 20 or so this year so far since a few weeks back, none came on flesh flies...but the biggest was only about 16", nothing in the 2-3lb range, good for you!!  You might want to aim the camera lower next time

[Gooey]

I just read some US statistics on C&R of cutties...the prior comments were very appropriate (particularly in the US where barbed hooks wee allowed):

4.5. Fishing Mortality
Use of bait for stream/riverine fishing of coastal cutthroat trout has been shown to result in high (up to 50 %) hooking mortality rates (Figure 11), as documented in a Washington State on wild cutthroat trout (Mongillo 1994). In this same study, the author concluded that bait fishing for salmonids, with the exception of adult winter steelhead, causes hook penetration in critical areas approximately 50% of the time versus artificials (i.e. lures or flies) that penetrate critical areas less than 10% of the time. Although this study may have included the use of baited barbed hooks, rather than the barbless hooks which apply through regulation to BC stream fisheries, additional hooking mortality study efforts have indicated that the average mortality rates for trout caught on baited hooks and then released were 33.5% for baited barbed hooks and 8.4% for baited barbless hooks (Taylor and White 1992).

[marmot]

One other thing maybe worth mentioning (and I'm not sure if this has been anyone else's experience)....when I fish the fly just under the surface (a few inches) I tend to get more "slashing" takes.....and I don't think this is a good thing.  It's exciting, sure, but more than once the hook has ended up very close to the eye, and once in the eye.  Since I've started using a small bead head more often I'm getting much cleaner takes and more fish as well.  Something to think about if you're really concerned about harming the fish.

[Geff_t]

One other thing maybe worth mentioning (and I'm not sure if this has been anyone else's experience)....when I fish the fly just under the surface (a few inches) I tend to get more "slashing" takes.....and I don't think this is a good thing.  It's exciting, sure, but more than once the hook has ended up very close to the eye, and once in the eye.  Since I've started using a small bead head more often I'm getting much cleaner takes and more fish as well.  Something to think about if you're really concerned about harming the fish.

Or if using flesh flies weight them a bit with a little lead wrap on the shank of the hook before you tie the fly.

[coho_killer]

I don't know if it's just me but while out lastweek at 2 different spots on the backwaters on the fraser i hooked over 20 SRC in the 2 days! I was fishing very small spinners and spoons they all worked! The 20 cutties caught were between myself and a friend and we kept our 2 hatchery fish that averaged between 2-3 lbs! Now at this same time last year i fished these same waters with the same results! I keep a fish journal to keep records of when the fish are in the systems and what was used to catch them! Lots of wild fish i'd say it was 50/50 wild to hatchery! we kept our 2 hatchery fish per day! Now everyone says that we should leave the cutthroat trout alone but if were allowed to retain 2 hatchery fish per day why? Every outing i've had for cutthroat trout i've located them and hooked pleanty so IMHO For the years i've spent hunting sea runs i do not see a problem keeping my 2 (hatchery)fish per day while out fishing!  Even the waters around here where i live produce very good numbers of cutties and i beleave the cutthroat trout that are hatcherys are for a kill fishery! So go get em there around in great numbers from what i've noticed over the years! Hatcherys do not use hatchery cliped fish to produce more hatchery fish! So with that said they are there for the taking! I wish people would stop complaining about targeting and retaining cutthroat trout Why else are they clipping them at the hatchery for anyways? TO KILL THEM! CAN'T WAIT FOR TOMORROWS TRIP! Need a few more for the smoker! Just my 2 cents on this subject!

                                                                                                                                           CK

[Gooey]

Uh, ya ever consider that maybe hatchery fish can reproduce naturally and supply viable offspring that will ultimately help repopulate diminishing stocks?    Seriously, considering this community and the conservation approach of many of the members here, your comment could certainly be seen as a tad provocative!?!

i know very little about cutties having never targeted them but from the reading I have done, it does seem like their populations are very mobile...you may be hitting concentrations of fish from multiple systems that gather at a focal point each year...I don't really know and I assume you don't either so may I suggest that the caviler attitude towards the fishery certainly wont help it at all if indeed it is in the danger many people here think it is in.  IMO, that whack em and stack em attitude is best saved for the peak sockeye runs 

Let me ask you this...we all know what a S*** Show the sockeye fishery is and how the powers that be seem unable to properly manage that fishery or ensure appropriate escapement...so what makes you think they have a better handle on the Cutty Fishery?   As an example, the report I am reading today states that at the current minimum size limit (30cm) is too small because many individuals of that size class may not have reached sexual maturity and hence wont get to spawn if hooked and retained.  Further to that a 40cm fish has 2 times the egg load (fecundity) as a 30cm specimen which further highlighted this biologist's position that the current size limit is too small.

But hey, there sure seems to be a lot of em out there so everything must be fine...right?

[coho_killer]

Uh, ya ever consider that maybe hatchery fish can reproduce naturally and supply viable offspring that will ultimately help repopulate diminishing stocks?    Seriously, considering this community and the conservation approach of many of the members here, your comment could certainly be seen as a tad provocative!?!

i know very little about cutties having never targeted them but from the reading I have done, it does seem like their populations are very mobile...you may be hitting concentrations of fish from multiple systems that gather at a focal point each year...I don't really know and I assume you don't either so may I suggest that the caviler attitude towards the fishery certainly wont help it at all if indeed it is in the danger many people here think it is in.  IMO, that whack em and stack em attitude is best saved for the peak sockeye runs 

Let me ask you this...we all know what a S*** Show the sockeye fishery is and how the powers that be seem unable to properly manage that fishery or ensure appropriate escapement...so what makes you think they have a better handle on the Cutty Fishery?   As an example, the report I am reading today states that at the current minimum size limit (30cm) is too small because many individuals of that size class may not have reached sexual maturity and hence wont get to spawn if hooked and retained.  Further to that a 40cm fish has 2 times the egg load (fecundity) as a 30cm specimen which further highlighted this biologist's position that the current size limit is too small.

But hey, there sure seems to be a lot of em out there so everything must be fine...right?

From my observations on this fishery and by talking to various co's and fisheries people the cuthroat population is rebounding just fine and that the hatchery fish are there for the taking! When hatchery fish return to the hatchery to spawn i've been told that there eggs are not used to reproduce the next generation of fish! ONLY WILD FISH ARE USED! I understand that some may not agree with my comments but i've done excellent in my search for sea-run cutties from fishing for them around cresent beach on the fly or throwing spoons and spinners in sloughs and rivers there around and hatchery fish are there for the taking! So why niot bonk em? They have no use when returned to the hatchery to spawn so what else are they there for? For a kill fishery! Why else do you buy a fishing licence for TO RETAIN FISH when allowed to do so by following the regs and the regs state i may retain 2 hatchery marked fish per day i don't just catch fish too look at! Even tho  they are nice looking fish They tase pretty darn good too! Give em a try you just might like them!

                                                                                                                                        CK

[Rodney]

Seriously, considering this community and the conservation approach of many of the members here, your comment could certainly be seen as a tad provocative!?!

But he's entitled to express those opinions. The best approach would be to state your reasonings behind your view of this fishery and hope most readers would understand. There will always be people who will not agree with the catch and release practice when a daily quota is allowed. If those who are in favour of catching and releasing cutthroat trout only, the next step would be to push for the termination of the hatchery searun cutthroat trout fishery, which takes wild spawners to produce the stock. Take the fund from this hatchery program and use it on habitat enhancement to further enhance the wild population.

And you ad, "send your comments to the proper authorities..." thats a great way of placing the responsibility on someone else...

Not so. The Sportfishing Advisory Committee is responsible for asking Fisheries and Oceans Canada as well as Ministry of Environment at times to make changes in regulations that would benefit both the fish and the angling community. Closure of the chinook salmon on the Chilliwack River from January 1st to June 30th is a good example. Preaching to individual anglers who may or may not listen can certainly make a difference, but at a smaller scale. To make everyone comply to what you think it's right, a change in regulation and management is needed. Resource managers often rely on anglers to provide hands-on information to manage the fish stock effectively. I encourage all to get involved by joining a group that has a representation at the local SFAC meeting.

Back to the topic on eliminating high mortality of cutthroat trout by bait. Nuggy brought up that fishing spinners and spoons is a good alternative if you still want to fish gear without using bait. My only suggestion is to avoid using large hooks (or hooks with a wide gap). Large hooks has a tendency to penetrate through the eye or brain when the fish bites on them. This in fact is worse than a throat-hooked fish as it usually results in an instant death. I usually use size 4 or 6 hooks for my spoons and spinners. In another month or so, people should find both spoons and spinners to be quite effective as salmon fry emerge. Deep hooking is also the reason that I have stopped fishing bait for bull trout in the Tidal Fraser between early April and June. As fun as it is to catch multiple fish in a short time span, I feel that it is simply pointless to actually cause a high % of deaths in a catch and release fishery.

[Gooey]

Coho Killer, you have made a similar comment 2 times now: When hatchery fish return to the hatchery to spawn i've been told that there eggs are not used to reproduce the next generation of fish! ONLY WILD FISH ARE USED! 

This is not a totally true statement.  Hatchery fish are used for brood stock on a number of different systems/runs.  As I have only ever participated in steelhead and coho brood stocking so I can tell you first hand, hatchery fish are used in some brood stocking activities.  I can not speak to whether or not Hatchery cutties are being used for brood stock.  As well, your statement "When hatchery fish return to the hatchery" makes me think that you are not considering that hatchery fish can and will spawn naturally in the river.  The pic of the 3 fish that Fossil retained where good examples of fish that would have spawned in the river had they not been bonked.

PS here is a link to the 100 page paper I have quoted several times today...good read: http://www.shim.bc.ca/cutthroat/ct.pdf
   

[Xgolfman]

Coho killer....Also your talking about systems with reasonable Healthy stocks of hatchery fish...I'm more directly pointing out the Chehalis. There are a number of lakes etc. that produce fish for the taking...As far as cutties go or really even trips. I don't care for the muddy taste so don't..but I don't begrudge someone else doing it...(especially the heavily stocked lakes like tunkwa etc.) But that's NOT the Chehalis...that's my biggest beef..

[coho_killer]

Coho Killer, you have made a similar comment 2 times now: When hatchery fish return to the hatchery to spawn i've been told that there eggs are not used to reproduce the next generation of fish! ONLY WILD FISH ARE USED! 

This is not a totally true statement.  Hatchery fish are used for brood stock on a number of different systems/runs.  As I have only ever participated in steelhead and coho brood stocking so I can tell you first hand, hatchery fish are used in some brood stocking activities.  I can not speak to whether or not Hatchery cutties are being used for brood stock.  As well, your statement "When hatchery fish return to the hatchery" makes me think that you are not considering that hatchery fish can and will spawn naturally in the river.  The pic of the 3 fish that Fossil retained where good examples of fish that would have spawned in the river had they not been bonked.

PS here is a link to the 100 page paper I have quoted several times today...good read: http://www.shim.bc.ca/cutthroat/ct.pdf


   

You are right a very good read!

[coho_killer]

Coho killer....Also your talking about systems with reasonable Healthy stocks of hatchery fish...I'm more directly pointing out the Chehalis. There are a number of lakes etc. that produce fish for the taking...As far as cutties go or really even trips. I don't care for the muddy taste so don't..but I don't begrudge someone else doing it...(especially the heavily stocked lakes like tunkwa etc.) But that's NOT the Chehalis...that's my biggest beef..

I was only speaking of river and stream cutthroat trout! My biggest beef was how people cherish this fish and don't get me wrong they are beautiful to look at, but when it comes down to the fact hatchery fish were put into our systems for a kill fishery why not take a few home for the frying pan? Tops i take home betweeen 4-6 hatchery fish a season And smoke the whole fish in the smoker tastes great! If a fisherman/woman wants to catch and release these beauties to each there own! Just don't cry and whine to the fishermen/women who take a few home to eat every year that my point!


                                                                                                                    CK

[marmot]

I don't think anyone here should presume to think that the cutthroat populations of the fraser and its subsystems are healthy....what are you comparing this to?  When the guys who have been targeting cutthroat on the fraser and harrison for 50+ years say that the populations are in serious decline and not what they used to be, maybe we should listen and act appropriately.  And why would they not be? With declines in salmon stocks (and therefore the flesh, eggs and fry), it is common sense that cutthroat populations are in turn being affected. 

CK I highly doubt your experience last time out was a representative one.  If it was, you should quit fishing and take up gambling.

[coryandtrevor]

Coho Killer, you have made a similar comment 2 times now: When hatchery fish return to the hatchery to spawn i've been told that there eggs are not used to reproduce the next generation of fish! ONLY WILD FISH ARE USED! 

This is not a totally true statement.  Hatchery fish are used for brood stock on a number of different systems/runs.  As I have only ever participated in steelhead and coho brood stocking so I can tell you first hand, hatchery fish are used in some brood stocking activities.  I can not speak to whether or not Hatchery cutties are being used for brood stock.  As well, your statement "When hatchery fish return to the hatchery" makes me think that you are not considering that hatchery fish can and will spawn naturally in the river.  The pic of the 3 fish that Fossil retained where good examples of fish that would have spawned in the river had they not been bonked.

PS here is a link to the 100 page paper I have quoted several times today...good read: http://www.shim.bc.ca/cutthroat/ct.pdf





   

You are right a very good read!

This whole thread has been a good read. Thanks for all the info on the Sea Run Cutts. Didn't know how fragile the stocks were.

Thanks all 

[Rodney]

I don't think anyone here should presume to think that the cutthroat populations of the fraser and its subsystems are healthy....what are you comparing this to?

This is a really good point and I feel that greater emphasis should be placed on it. The term "healthy stock" is used too loosely, not only by anglers but by professionals who work in the field. How should the current health of a fish stock be compared to? Last year? One decade ago? 50 years ago? One century ago? Do we purposely or unconsciously make smaller temporal comparisons to get a more optimistic outlook on the health of a fish population? This really is a downfall to the way we protect the resource. Trophy chinook salmon are not longer the ones in the 50lb+ range, but 30lb+ class, or even 20lb+ class. Gone were the days when one can hook multiple cutthroat trout in the Tidal Fraser River according to old timers, yet we like to think the population is not in trouble because with some hunting some multiple-fish days are still possible. This will keep happening, because the resource is not managed by the same staff long enough to detect the differences. Critical information is often not passed on. The trend is very similar to the shift of commercial catches worldwide. It's likely in a few decades from now that spiny dogfish will become the primary commercial species sold on boats in Steveston.

Several decades of catch data from angling clubs are actually good indicators of any shift in population number and fish size. In Europe, every member of a club who fish exclusively at a particular river system would submit their catch numbers at the end of the season, which is just as effective as the creel surveys that we spend a tremendous amount of tax dollars on.