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[allwaysfishin]

Schenley....
this afterall is a buy and sell add, i'm not a moderator but maybe if you have these strong urges to high jack peoples adds with your feebleminded , leftist, probably voted liberal , granola eatin , armchair critic comments...... you should start a NFR... i'm scared of dangerous dogs.... thread.

do you cruise the buy n sell paper and craigslist looking for dog owners to provoke as well??

and leave this poor man to sellin his pups, instead of putting him in a position to have to defend his right to post and sell them.
sorry rodney..... I couldn't help myself 

[Schenley]

Hummm- Interesting spin 

feebleminded , leftist, probably voted liberal , granola eatin , armchair critic comments.

Feebleminded?? Nope!, Leftist? Nope!, Voted Liberal- nope not a chance, Granola eating, red meat beats sawdust any day, Armchair critic? No I have owned big dogs most of my life-- been der -done dat.  I also had a huskie/shepard cross that I took in because the owner expected that proper training and love would offset the agressive attedancies of the sire... Wrong!  It was in the genes-- After THREE bites, I had the vet put him down as I KNEW he was a ticking time bomb. My vet told me that he sees a lot more of this temperment  these days because of unethical breeders that pander to either idiots who want a dog that reflects thier temperment, or are totally unaware that the cute little pup, without extensive and continuing training,will turn into Cujo.   Wolf crosses fall into the category of an animal that should never be left in the company of young children. Same thing with exotic cats too.  What is so hard to understand with that.  And as far as "Makes a good fishing partner"  That is complete bull crap.

I have also seen a neighbourhood terrorized by an aggressive pitbull/rottie cross owned by a young guy that thought it was funny and cool to see his dog growl at anyone that tried to walk down the street.  That dog ( and owner) had no place in a civilized society.

A few years ago I attended a dog obdience classes to socialise my labs. One of the other dogs was a pitbull, less than a year old. It attacked three other dogs in the class before the trainer gave the dog and owner the boot-- telling him to seriously consider ethanizing the dog because of its temperment. The owner???   A 17yr old that bought the dog cus his "friends" told him it was "rad" to own a pittbull.   

 Getting back to wolf crosses..The fact remainds-- these crosses dont make good pets... do some research and then tell me you want one in the backyard next to your kids.

[allwaysfishin]

schenley
I'll stop getting personal, i suppose that wasn't fair. I'll clarify my experience with dogs for you just so you are aware of why i get so riled about this  topic.
lived with and raised/trained a 1rst generation wolf/akida cross,for all  it's 9 years of life, fantastic dog, never an issue.
5 years as an assistant and lead trainer for a high end securtities company (we're not talking your average k-9 security here). Training rottwielers, sheppards, akida and dobermans, some mixed breed as well. many of these dogs are serving with police, military and special securities. I have over 15 years as a dog handler and trainers assistant with various institutions.... all of my work with dogs has been unpaid and volunteered.
I have been bit 6 times in my life and none of the dogs that bit me were on the list above.... they were all someones house pet and most of them of the terrier breed... and then there's that godam chiuaua that bit me twice.
I have handled well over 100 of what most folks call dangerous dogs.... and never been bit. Had to take a few down and show em who's boss... but hell ya have to do that with teenagers these days too

we are all entitled to our opinions... there is no, I',m right and youre wrong here
my comments on this ony started because i felt your thought were not appropriate in Beasts buy sell add.
peace.

[Schenley]

Yes, we all have opinions. Apparently you are a professional trainer, so you assume that you can honestly say that its OK to have a wolf-cross as a "fishing partner'??  Please note I asked if Beast screens his prospective buyers.  Any responsible breeder will do that. I even had to assure a breeder that I would hunt a Duck Toller that I wanted to purchase  as she wanted to assure the hunting heritage of the breed.  Breeding vs non breeding contracts for PBs too all part of responsible breed management.

I didnt get an answer to my question about screening suitable owners -- so lets sell the animals to the first $300 that comes along from an apartment or 33ft lot??   Yes- I know the stats on dog or hybrid related human deaths... In the US from 1979 to 1996  the worst is the pittbull and crosses, next is rottweiler and crosses, followed by  shepherds,malmutes and -- and wait for it--the wolf hybrid.

I stand by my previous statement that wolf hybrids are "high maintenance"  I am not going to carry this further, except to say, Give an animal know to have a propensity to act in a predatory way, especially  towards children , to a person who is unaware of the nature of the animal, or just doesnt give a damn, because it make HIM look cool , then you have a recipe for a disaster no different from allowing a juvenile to have a handgun with no training at all.

Since children are small, they are less intimidating to a wolf or hybrid, and the chance of an attack is increased. Couple this with the propensity - primarily of small boys - to tease such animals if they are behind a fence or on a chain, and the stage is set for disaster. Many children have been attacked. The lucky ones escaped with injuries. Many have died. All these deaths were avoidable. While it is true that the same comments apply to many dogs - who are considered to be the same species - the probability that a pet wolf or hybrid will attack a child is much greater.

     Whenever such an attack occurs, it is often national news. A concerned public cries out for laws to outlaw such animals, while the hybrid owners rise up to defend the keeping of these animals - pointing out how friendly they are. Parents are accused of poor supervision - not of the animals, but of the children who are the victims of such attacks. In many instances the owners have been warned beforehand, but such warnings are usually dismissed or ignored. When a child is dead or disfigured for life, one hears: "Gee, I am sorry; I did not know; the animal has never done that before; it is so friendly; it loves children; it is afraid of people; etc." The list of excuses is endless.

[allwaysfishin]

on the points you have made ..... I will have to agree. The wrong person should not own one of these dogs.
My pure bred rottweiller doesn't come fishin with me as i can't keep my eye on him while i'm fishin. While i trust him with my life and when given commands, he is still a dog with the "pack" mentality still very strong in him.
I have no use for pit bull... or any terrier breed for that matter... those dogs are just not right.
It's interesting how raising a dog with a pack mentality in it's instinct differs from many other breeds. My dog (s) know thier place in order in my family, and they see that i firmly and fairly hold the alpha male position. This is something many owners of "possibly dangerous" pack instinct canines do not realize.

I said/typed some things that no doubt were not well received when this was a buysell post.... now that it is a discussion thread... I have no issues with your opinion. I just did not feel that it was appropriate or fair to Beast to post what you did in his add.
we can agree to disagree on that
and we can agree on the wish that these dogs go to homes of folks who can do just that, give them good nurturing homes. I'm one of those folks who can do just that. Not a macho thing, I own a rottie because he needed a "good" home when he was a pup.... rescued from a chain in a mud filled lot, behind the trailer of a drunk dumb@ss when he was 2 months old.
At the time.... I was in fact.... looking for a chocolate lab or a newfie duck toller..... how bout them apples 

and i take back my granola eatin, musta voted liberal comment..... but it did work to get this thread moved to dicussion from buysell 
cheers man

[Schenley]

Yup-- fair enough. Have a good one.   And my dogs know thier place too-- Its either standing next to the food bucket looking pittiful or taking a flying lead at my lap while I am in the recliner watching TV.  85lbs of lab coming at you out of the blue can sure take you breath away--- so much for training!!!! 

[marmot]

Everything, including a human, can be unpredictable.  If you let your kid play with a rotty, pit bull, or wolf-cross, or any other dog you are rolling the dice.  My animal had eaten something and cracked her molar, neither my wife and I noticed as she was acting completely normally.  Unprovoked and out of the blue, she attacked our baby, and bit her head.  Up to that point she had been completely loveable and loved to snuggle up with the kids.  Luckily, this animal was small.  Any of the above breeds and our child would now be dead.

Anybody out there who thinks you "know" your dog and can predict it's behavior, you're a fool and projecting your own notion of self control onto your animal.  That said, if you provide a safe, comfortable, controlled environment for these breeds, they can be some of the best companions.  The key is recognizing unpredictability and behaving accordingly instead of ignoring it.

[Beast]

marmot sorry to here that about YOUR dog.  i HOPE your little one is doing OK
was your dog neutered and was it a female or a male
people say that this  (above mentioned) but i does i have a 18, 16, 10, and finally a 4 year old and not once did i have any problems
with them and my animals!! now on the other hand pets in the surrounding area there was problems where yes a shovel on the back of the head works
great for me!

[marmot]

Who said she was a dog?  She was a cat (half wild breed, bengal.)  Only dog our kids play with is my brothers schnoodle, and incidentally, on our last trip to see them, it nipped her when she got too close to his food bowl.  Again though, that "nip" from a rotty or pitbull would have been bad news.  It's true that any dog breed can attack, its the amount of damage they are capable of doing that makes people wary of certain breeds.  You haven't had problems with your animals, thats great.  Like I said, you roll the dice and so far you've been fortunate.

The chances that your dog is going to turn on your kids or somebody elses kids would be small if you brought your dog up properly....but it's such a huge price to pay if it does happen when really it can all be avoided by responsibly raising your animals. 

I'm curious what the draw is to "dangerous" breeds in the first place....the way it seems on the "outside" is that people think its "cool" to have a dangerous pet.  Am I wrong? Are they more loyal? Friendlier?  Are you using these dogs as guard dogs?  I hate to say it and most of you would probably agree but the majority of people that you see with "dangerous" breeds are tough guy types....is that just bad press for the people out there that have legitimate reasons for owning a rotty as opposed to say, a lab? If thats the case, what are those reasons?

[Beast]

i found my dog on one of my fishing trips LOCALLY he was the only one that survived out of the 7 that i had found along the river edge (FRASER) in a bag
all my kids have the chance to feed him as that is the trusting way it is true a dog will not bit the hand that feeds
my dog protects only the kids for as a stranger come on the drive way he will sit up in front of the kids and he will usually bark 3 to 6 time as a worning
most people will test my dog / dogs but no one has had the opertunity to get the rotti bit as of yet now when im fishing and he is with me obeying lesh law 10' lesh that is he is clipted to me and a order is given were he will sit and he will not unless i tell him so its all about the training and the time you spend with them!! as for the TUFF guy syndrome well i dont know about that   now there is a dealer in our area and he has a PITT (cant stand those dogs) and every one moves out of the way when he (THE PITT) comes close as for me i dont and he tightens his grip i have already thrown this dog in the bush a few time. to me that dog will hurt some one but that is what he is trained for i guess   my dogs name is bear as for me im the BEAST thats was a nickname i was given in the USMC just one of those things that stuck with me

[coryandtrevor]

I have no use for pit bull... or any terrier breed for that matter... those dogs are just not right.

C'mon, terriers are my very favorite breed. Cute and cuddly easy dogs to feed......

Something to lighten it up a bit :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB1eQrCBw0k

[troutbreath]

We have a pit bull / staffordshire terrier cross given to us tears ago. They thought since we lived in Surrery it was a no brainer to have one of them for protection. That dog to this day has bitten nothing but food. I am not particular to them anyway but i stopped taking him fishing because it made everyone around a little tight in the sphinkter. I was even threatened by one guy that he had a gun in his truck and that if I didn't tie up the dog his gun was coming out. So the dog in a way did pose a real threat to me. Only it was from other people. The pug we diverted from the pound has taken the pitbulls top lip off in a I'm boss type battle. He also bit me once for spanking him for peeing in the house. Pugs aren't a good choice if you like a urine free house.

[marmot]

Just to clarify guys there is a reason why i use quotation marks around "dangerous"....I don't believe they're dangerous unless put in the wrong situations or raised poorly (or have a medical reason).  As for the tough guy thing, it is a stereotype, for sure....around my neighborhood in east van though, it's prevalent.  I'm genuinely curious as to why somebody would choose a pitbull or rotty over a lab (other than protection, which is obvious).  I always thought that a lab would be the ideal choice for a hunting/fishing companion since they love the water and looove being in the bush.  A good friend of mine hunts and his lab has saved him from a grizzly....scary stuff!

Beast, that is heartbreaking that you found your pup (and his not so fortunate kin) in a bag at the river.  So sickening that scumbags do that to animals:(  Good that he's found a good home. 
Troutbreath.. did that guy have kids with him?  Remember, he doesn't know your dog, he just knows they can potentially (and sometimes do) attack and kill young children.  If not, hes just paranoid.

Another thing about the "tough guy" stereotype.. I was up at lynn canyon swimming last year.  We had our kids there, and there were lots of kids running around and playing in the water.  This guy and his teenage girlfriend strut down to the river, and he's got a pit bull ...a HUGE one.  The dog was visibly agitated and sort of lunging out and barking so what does the guy do?  He smacks his dog in the head with a stick and yells "shut up"...the dog turns to him in defiance and he just REEFS on the chain in the opposite direction....  Then he hands the leash to his girlfriend.  Thats when we left.  Poor dog is being turned into a time bomb.  It's owners like that that give these dogs a bad name (and support the stereotypes).

One of my best friends owns a rottweiler, and raises him well.  He has kids and has taught the kids to respect the dog, and I must say hes a wonderful dog.  I can't see him ever, ever, losing his cool...its just if he did, for whatever reason, its just so much to wager.

[troutbreath]

Most people get Pit Bulls because of the bad boy reputation. We didn't even play fight with the pit in case it made him a biter. I really wouldn't get another one. But they can be friendly to people with no chance of biting from what I've experienced. Just not my kind of dog. The scary thing is trimming his toenails and having your head by his huge fangs. Jawsome.

The guy who went to get his gun was overtly paranoid and there were no kids around. I kept telling him the dog wanted to be patted, which he did because he is a real sucker for attention. The dog came back to me and never got within 100 yards of the guy. Still I don't bring him around crowded areas rather than scare everyone because it is a big dog. These dogs will agressivly attack another dog I've seen that. Mine only does that if the other dog attacks first. He doesn't lock onto the the neck, and he leaves the other dog plenty time to think about biting him again. He actually gets kind of upset if he gets into a fight with another dog because he likes to play with them. I have had other pitbull owners want to try to see if the dogs will fight, and come over with their snapping pit bull. Sickos

[Sam Salmon]

I saw the saddest thing the other day-a vicious St Bernard.

Most people know them as Gentle Giants and all that but this mutt was bent right out of shape.

He wouldn't listen tried to attack a Bulldog-sweetest Bulldog you ever met-jerked his owners around I mean there were 2 of them both with a leash on the mutt and he just went wherever he wanted this was @ Kits beach-good thing he had a full muzzle on.

In this case I can see it being 100% the fault of the owner I talked to him for a bit he was so clueless it wasn't even funny.