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[Fish Assassin]

Let me be the devil's advocate here for a moment. If sockeyes can survive being caught and released in this water temperature, they can survive normal Fraser River temperatures.

[BigFisher]

Let me be the devil's advocate here for a moment. If sockeyes can survive being caught and released in this water temperature, they can survive normal Fraser River temperatures.

Is that the new test for the C&R study?    If thats what it takes to prove it, then Im sure some sockeye will step up to prove whats right.

[bederko]

Here's my beef:  All this study will prove is that a sockeye can be flossed, sampled, put in a cage overnight and then released and called alive.  What happens to these fish after they are released near Island 22?  Will they make it through the onslaught to Hope, possibly being hooked several more times on the way?  Will they make it through the rapids of the canyon to Williams Lake?  Can they then survive the Chilcotin, Quesnel, Horsefly, Chilko, etc.. to their spawning grounds?  All of this in 21 degree water which we know is detrimental?  

The impact of C&R on these fish is to me a moot point.  They should not be caught and released on our bars period...  If you want to call it a meat harvest then kill your fish and quit.  If there aren't enough fish to open a harvest then don't fish for them.  We can still fish selectively for other species.  Angling involves provoking a fish to bite. We need to clean up our act and all get back to angling not snagging.

[buck]

Bederko

Results from last year showed that sockeye could be caught and held 24 hours without killing them. Wow!!
What they should be doing is holding these fish from 10 - 14  days and then and only then would they get
a true picture of survival rates.
Last year a number of sockeye were transported to Cultus Lab for study and they looked good for the first few
days, but after 2 weeks were fungused and dieing. With water temperatures expected to be 21 deg. stress
prior to even being caught and handled is a real problem.
Water temperatures in the Nechako River would be even higher than those in the Fraser. One can only a speculate
how many fish are going to be lost on route to the spawning grounds, but I think we will be shocked when the final numbers are released.
   

[milo]

Julius Ceasar said: "Divide and impera" (Divide and conquer).

And here we are, one of the three fishing groups being divided over our different methods of fishing, demonstrating to the world that we are not worthy of our sport. Instead of uniting and creating a common front with only one mandate: BEING ALLOWED TO FISH REGARDLESS OF THE METHOD, we bitch, bicker and call each others flossers, snaggers, bait chuckers, fly fishing elitists and the like. What method we use has no bearing whatsoever on the survival of the fish. What method we use does not affect water temeratures. What method we use does not impact ocean survival or sea lice issues.
Fishing or not fishing is the issue at stake.

Make no mistake, fellows, we are making it a lot easier for FN, PETA, fish farmers and other anti-recreational fishing interest groups to drive us off the flow. Smarten up, guys, and start barking up the right tree!

[Riverman]

Truer words were never spoken!

[bederko]

Buck,

I agree with your years of hatchery wisdom, I've seen the fungus that occurs after the fact and I can't imagine those fish making it all the way up North. The methodology of the study is flawed in my opinion...

On the issue of division, it comes down to a poor sockeye run size this year.  We as sport fishermen may not control all of the causes for this but we are obligated to not make the problem worse.  Why do we have to catch these fish?  Why are so many guys SO angry and adamant that they get their sockeye?  There are other fish to catch and we can do so without impacting the sockeye that are in trouble.  Until the 90's, none of us even had the chance to fish for sockeye in the Fraser.  All of this anger has built up in the last 15 years and now it sounds like a bunch of selfish kids, "this toy isn't good enough I want that one!" 

Milo, I'm sorry but I will never agree with you that this should be our mandate: "BEING ALLOWED TO FISH REGARDLESS OF THE METHOD".  You can shout it through the keyboard all you like, it's wrong.  I can't believe you would actually pull out a net or a stick of dynamite, so why would you write this??  Please explain to me why you feel this study is so important...
 
Respectfully,
Bederko



 

[milo]

Unless the study proves that our impact is negligible, the Fraser will be closed to recreational salmon fishing during sockeye migration (basically, most of the summer). This study has been commissioned by FN, who wants us off the water.

Why is it so hard for some of you to understand?

[bederko]

Do you believe we should be C&R sockeye when there aren't enough fish to meet spawning escapements?  Why do we need a study that supports this?  I thought sockeye was a "meat fishery", if it is then it should only be open when the numbers allow and guys should be harvesting their fish and going home. 

The Fraser doesn't need to be closed during sockeye migration if we would just stop targeting them. We can effectively catch chinooks and pinks while virtually eliminating the sockeye bi-catch.  Let's have a study to prove that... Why is this so hard for some of you to understand?

[milo]

Do you believe we should be C&R sockeye when there aren't enough fish to meet spawning escapements?  Why do we need a study that supports this?  I thought sockeye was a "meat fishery", if it is then it should only be open when the numbers allow and guys should be harvesting their fish and going home. 

The Fraser doesn't need to be closed during sockeye migration if we would just stop targeting them. We can effectively catch chinooks and pinks while virtually eliminating the sockeye bi-catch.  Let's have a study to prove that... Why is this so hard for some of you to understand?

In the big picture, yes, I think we can sacrifice a few fish.
I advocated years ago for the same things as you do now.
Unfortunately, it won't happen. If the study shows sockeye mortality from angler hookup is high, we'll be off the water during sockeye migration. No bar fishing, no flossing, no spoons...nada. They want us off the water entirely. Got it?

Fortunately, the results of the first year are encouraging. It seems sockeye are resilient little buggers and can take a hook or two and still live.

[chris gadsden]

Unless the study proves that our impact is negligible, the Fraser will be closed to recreational salmon fishing during sockeye migration (basically, most of the summer). This study has been commissioned by FN, who wants us off the water.

Why is it so hard for some of you to understand?

If it does close it is because people will not fish selectively, thats the bottom line in this matter.  On a positive note, thank goodness , many anglers are now seeing it this way and are now bar fishing to get away from hooking sockeye during this period of concern due to ;low returns and warm river temperatures. When bar fishing, only a handful of sockeye are hooked each year.

[buck]

Milo

I think you are correct when you say the natives want use off the water. However, I do not agree with your statement that sockeye can be hooked a couple of times and make it too the spawning
grounds. With temperatures reaching 21 Degrees C these fish should not be handled at all. Holding these fish for 24 hours, with little or no mortality only shows that they can survive for the short
term. Hold them for ten days at those temperatures and see what you get.
As far as the catch and release study that is ongoing , the Biologist in charge should know the the consequences on handling fish at these temperature.

[chris gadsden]

Milo

I think you are correct when you say the natives want use off the water. However, I do not agree with your statement that sockeye can be hooked a couple of times and make it too the spawning
grounds. With temperatures reaching 21 Degrees C these fish should not be handled at all. Holding these fish for 24 hours, with little or no mortality only shows that they can survive for the short
term. Hold them for ten days at those temperatures and see what you get.
As far as the catch and release study that is ongoing , the Biologist in charge should know the the consequences on handling fish at these temperature.

Thanks buck for sharing your experience and knowledge in this matter, much appreciated by myself and others I am sure.

[milo]

In an ideal world, we would have a 3-foot leader restriction and adequate enforcement of said rule. Unfortunately, based on previous years' experience, it won't happen. It's either going to be black (no fishing at all for the recreational sector) or white (all angling methods allowed).
I am not going to delude myself into believing that we will get a set of strict regs that will leave the Fraser river open to bar fishers and spooners but closed to bottom bouncers. No matter how nice it would be, it just won't happen. 

Being mostly a fly fisherman, any decision affecting the Fraser has little impact on me personally, but I would certainly like to see all my recreational fishing brethren regardless of their chosen style being able to enjoy the fishery.

As for the water temperatures, I would wholeheartedly suggest to close the river to all angling once the mercury in the thermometer hits 20.5 C

[alwaysfishn]

As far as I am concerned they can go ahead and ban bottom bouncing, restrict the leader length down to 24 inches or restrict fishing to using a triangular shaped weight of no less than 10 ounces.

This is not going to happen for several reasons:

1) Fisheries is already short of staff and cannot enforce the rules that are already in place. They realize that there is no point in putting in rules that can't be enforced!

2) The government wants/needs the license revenue. If you put restrictions on the type of gear you would eliminate the sockeye fishery, most of the chinook fishery and as a result $1000's of dollars of license revenue and economic benefit to the local communities.

3) From a practical point of view it would be impossible to fit all of the fishermen that bottom bounce onto the good bar fishing bars. Can you imagine taking all the bottom bouncing fishermen from Peg Leg and packing them on the Maple Leaf bar with their 16 oz weights? Chris, maybe you could start a water taxi service with the Leaf Craft. 

4) FN wants sports fishermen off the river. They would prefer to do their illegal fishing without being under the scrutiny of the public. (Let's not put our heads in the sand on this issue as this is really the issue we should be arguing and complaining about. I believe it has a much greater impact on the fishery than a few sporties bouncing for springs) Limiting the gear would eliminate the fishermen.

So back to Milo's point...   We need to get realistic, band together and quit fighting each other. The sockeye C&R test fishery is a necessary exercise that hopefully will prove that BB'ing fishermen have minimal impact on the sockeye. And questioning the science behind holding the fish for 24 hours or 24 days is pointless. I am sure that DFO is gathering as much data as they can in order to be prepared to win a case against FN when they ultimately insist the river be closed to sportfishermen. FN could care less whether we bottom bounce, they ultimately want us off the river no matter what type of gear we use!