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[Gaffer]

Buck's comment that would apply to all fish not just sockeye. 
Good thing sockeye isn't biting. Otherwise the mortality rate would be higher.

Why would the mortality be higher ? Are you saying the numbers would be higher or the % age? Wouldn't the netting mortality also be higher , crowding on the spawning redds mortality higher , incedental mortality higher ?-- perhaps I'm missing your point--- Cheers

[Morty]

Even with the DFO estimated  total catch & release of Fraser River Sockeye Aug 1 to Aug 16  count of 12,800 fish during the Chinook Sport Fishery,

I find this hard to believe - especially considering the "fact" that the First Nations 8 weeks catch with drift nets is only 21,182.  If all those hours of fir drifting with nets stretched good distances, across the most producive waters the First NAtions can find, only produced 21,182 Sockeye#, how could recreational fishers wiith hooks smaller than quarters catch more than 1/2 that many fish in 2 weeks? 

Someone's math is WAY OFF!

# http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/SockeyeKeptCatch.html

[alwaysfishn]

I find this hard to believe - especially considering the "fact" that the First Nations 8 weeks catch with drift nets is only 21,182.  If all those hours of fir drifting with nets stretched good distances, across the most producive waters the First NAtions can find, only produced 21,182 Sockeye#, how could recreational fishers wiith hooks smaller than quarters catch more than 1/2 that many fish in 2 weeks? 

Someone's math is WAY OFF!

# http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/HTMLs/SockeyeKeptCatch.html

Of course DFO's math is off...   They calculate sockeye encounters by doing fly overs and counting the number of anglers on the river. Then they multiply that by some multiple obtained through creel surveys, sockey C&R test fishery encounters(which are actually targeting sockeye)and best guesses??  The numbers are going to be high just no way to tell how exaggerated they are....

You can imagine how off the FN numbers are, they are self reported.....

[Gaffer]

Of course DFO's math is off...   They calculate sockeye encounters by doing fly overs and counting the number of anglers on the river. Then they multiply that by some multiple obtained through creel surveys, sockey C&R test fishery encounters(which are actually targeting sockeye)and best guesses??  The numbers are going to be high just no way to tell how exaggerated they are....

You can imagine how off the FN numbers are as they as strictly self reported.....

You Betcha they're off and---- my words start with B. & S.-----The other formulae they use are bogus why not these ? ---tight lines/ sharp hooks

[chris gadsden]

I am starting to wonder if the report on the radio tagged sockeye has been released yet.

[jon5hill]

It would be awesome to see the telemetry. Dr. Thomas Quinn did an awesome study some years back and it was fascinating how far they actually travel.

[mykisscrazy]

Quinn's work years ago was indeed interesting. Technology has come along way since then
Have a look here if you are interested

http://faculty.forestry.ubc.ca/hinch/Salmon%20mig%20and%20repro%20pubs.html

http://oceantrackingnetwork.org/

http://www.postcoml.org/

http://www.kintamaresearch.org/

Regarding the catch and release study, I thought the report was done. Hopefully soon it will be released

[Rodney]

Report of year two's study is now available:

http://www.thinksalmon.com/fswp_project/item/fraser_sockeye_hook_and_release_mortality_study_year_2/

[DavidD]

Thanks for the link Rod - I participated last year and am interested in their findings.

[Rodney]

Sockeye Hook & Release Pilot Mortality Study update
http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=126233&ID=recreational

The Fraser Salmon & Watershed Program (FSWP) in conjunction with the Department of Fisheries & Oceans (DFO) is conducting the third year of a sockeye hook and release study in the Fraser River to determine the short term (24 hour) mortality of sockeye caught and released in recreational fisheries. 

A contract biologist, Jim Thomas of JO Thomas & Associates (JOT), will be responsible for the operational aspects of the study.

We are seeking interested volunteers to assist us in the study.  We need approximately 35 anglers each day of the study. If you are interested please join us at the location and time noted below.  There is no need to sign up, just come on down.

Study Design: fish will be caught by the usual recreational fishing methods and also by beach seine.  Sockeye health will be assessed and the fish will be tagged and placed into a net pen and held for 24 hours.  After the 24 hour period the fish health will be assessed again and they will be released.  In addition, up to 200 radio tags will be applied to the sockeye and immediately released.

Species and Amounts: the goal is to catch up to 800 sockeye by angling and beach seine methods. All live sockeye will be released after the 24 hour period.

Meeting Location and Time: Island 22 boat launch each day of the study at 7:30 AM. Please make sure you park in the appropriate parking area for your vehicle type. Limited transportation to the study area will be available for those without boats. 

Location of Study: Grassy Bar - a portion of the bar will be marked off and used solely for the purpose of the study.

Timing of Study: three 5 day time periods August 9-13, August 16-20 and August 23-27. Note: This schedule may be changed if a recreational sockeye retention fishery is announced and a further fishery notice will be released.

Given the varying weather conditions we've experienced please make sure you are prepared and bring enough liquids to keep yourself hydrated.  You may also need rain jackets, sunscreen, bug repellant and a hat.

Similar to previous years you need to provide your rod, reel and line and if you want your terminal tackle.  If you prefer we will have a selection of hooks, corkies, weights, leader and wool available.

We're looking for volunteer anglers of all experience levels so come on out and join us. 

For information on year one results please visit:

http://www.thinksalmon.com/fswp_project/item/fraser_sockeye_hook_and_release_mortality_study/

Notes:

Did you witness suspicious fishing activity or a violation?  If so, please call the Fisheries and Ocean Canada 24-hour toll free Observe, Record, Report line at (800) 465-4336.

For the 24 hour recorded opening and closure line, call toll free at (866) 431-FISH.

[bigsnag]

In regards to the Sockeye mortality study, what are they referring to as the "usual fishing methods "?  From the numbers of fish that they want to catch and the #'s of anglers per day over the 3 test periods they want to participate, would I be wrong to suggest that ... ahem ... bouncing along the bottom is a usual method ?

Has anyone participated  in last seasons study ?   Thoughts anyone ? ?

[chris gadsden]

In regards to the Sockeye mortality study, what are they referring to as the "usual fishing methods "?  From the numbers of fish that they want to catch and the #'s of anglers per day over the 3 test periods they want to participate, would I be wrong to suggest that ... ahem ... bouncing along the bottom is a usual method ?

Has anyone participated  in last seasons study ?   Thoughts anyone ? ?

Yes, unfortunately they floss, if they did not the fish would be far between and so would the anglers.  Last year they allowed chinooks to be retained. I think they should radio tag  the chinooks too, to see how they make out after being played to exhaustion using 12 foot or longer leaders.

[alwaysfishn]

Yes, unfortunately they floss, if they did not the fish would be far between and so would the anglers.  Last year they allowed chinooks to be retained. I think they should radio tag  the chinooks too, to see how they make out after being played to exhaustion using 12 foot or longer leaders.

Why would playing them out with a 12 foot leader or a 24 inch bar rig leader be any different Chris? In both cases, if the fish are successfully landed they are destined for the barbecue.

If the chinook spits the hook.......  physics suggests it's ridiculous to assume that a long leader is any different than a short leader when it comes to the survival rate of the chinook!  In fact because a bar rigged chinook is hooked inside the mouth rather than outside the mouth it is much more likely that a released bar rig chinook will bleed much more than a released chinook that was flossed.

I suggest we stop throwing out that one method is better or worse than another, and that we just go fishing!

[chris gadsden]

Why would playing them out with a 12 foot leader or a 24 inch bar rig leader be any different Chris? In both cases, if the fish are successfully landed they are destined for the barbecue.

If the chinook spits the hook.......  physics suggests it's ridiculous to assume that a long leader is any different than a short leader when it comes to the survival rate of the chinook!  In fact because a bar rigged chinook is hooked inside the mouth rather than outside the mouth it is much more likely that a released bar rig chinook will bleed much more than a released chinook that was flossed.

I suggest we stop throwing out that one method is better or worse than another, and that we just go fishing!

Never will go for this flossing of fish or the HST either.

The only thing I could accept although I would no ever do it again, last time was 8 years ago. but really do not like the practice for the many reason's mentioned several times over the year by me and others. Floss away when the sockeye are OPEN, take your two sockeye and go home, not keep trying for a chinook and in the process hook many more sockeye that have to be released. I used to hear people boast that they had caught 50 sockeye in one day.

Of course as we all know the plague of flossing has spread to all rivers the last few years and is a black mark for recreational angling. It also was used by another sector to keep us out of an earlier opening for chinook this year although FOC will give other reason's. Article was in the Chilliwack Progress web page but is not there now.

Why do I still keep writing on this subject? Because each year more people stop doing this activity and maybe by me writing about it again others will see it for what it is and fish in a manner that give the fish the choice to bite or not.

The way F/N and Commercial netting is a different way of fishing, ours is supposed to be a recreational activity. If you have not read Riobert Haig - Brown's books please do as they give us all an excellent insight of how angling evolved for him and how he treasured and respected our fishes throughout his life.

[alwaysfishn]

The way F/N and Commercial netting is a different way of fishing, ours is supposed to be a recreational activity. If you have not read Riobert Haig - Brown's books please do as they give us all an excellent insight of how angling evolved for him and how he treasured and respected our fishes throughout his life.

I agree that talking about it may cause some fishermen to evolve to finer forms of sports fishing. However potential for arguments still exist between the fly fisherman and the bait fishermen, between the sinking fly line fisherman and the floating line fly fisherman, etc, etc. Why not just let people fish?

The point is that there are all sorts of ways to catch fish. As long as they are legal; using a net, or a long line, or a hunk of roe, or a fly line is just a preferred way of catching a fish. Neither is better or worse, ethical or non-ethical.

Perhaps a flosser turned bar fishermen, could be compared to a smoker turned non-smoker who goes on a crusade to convince the world that smoking is bad for you..... Maybe it is, but why do so many people do it???