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[fishseeker]

I headed out to the Stave again yestererday with the faint hope that they may still be some half decent chums in the water.

I was short floating with a colorado spoon as I have been doing all of this season and I didn't get the slightest touch so I eventually gave up - I figured they were probably too old and tired to bite and it wasn't going to be worth continuing.

One thing I am curious about and I hate to bring up any snagging debates but I see I lot of people catching fish by bottom bouncing a weight with (usually) long leader and some colored wool.  Is this a fair or legitimate way to fish for them?  [ They seemed to get hooked in the mouth this way but I am not sure if they are really taking the offering or just getting the leader in their mouths - only to be snared when the guy reels the line back in. ]

Salmon fishing is still relatively new to me and I am still figuring out what's ethical and what isn't.  I want to avoid anything that might be considered unethical.

[Fish Assassin]

Bottom bouncing with a short leader is a legitimate method of fishing.

[SeaRun]

Fish Assassin is correct...bottom bouncing with a short leader is a legitimate angling method.    It was a technique that was more common in the US.   Most of the anglers south of the border often used short rods,  level wind reels, short leaders, & bottom bounced Corkies, Spin-N-Glos, etc... which kept the hook off the bottom.   Canadians on the other hand prefer long rods in the 10-11 ft. range, level winds or center pin reels (originated in England), & float fish.   

Bottom bouncing/flossing was something that originated on the Fraser when it opened for sockeye & seems to be a "technique" that has moved over to other rivers.    I have fished in the Lower Mainland for over 40 yrs. & have worked for DFO.   I am surprised to see how many angler do not realize that the currents actually lift their hooks on long leaders near the surface.    These anglers do not seem to realize why they are not catching many fish.    You will catch more fish in the mouth with a shorter leader if you let the wool, bait, etc..  drift naturally.

Glad to  hear you "want to avoid anything that might be considered unethical."   Send me a PM if you have any questions.

[fishseeker]

and by short he means less than 18" long.the interpretation of what is ethical is in the 'eye of the beholder', you will eventually come to develop your own set of ethics.one  caution when using the internet, listen to what people are really saying and take all w/a pinch of salt.welcome to the wonderful world o' fishing, i'm hooked!
       ssabnik

I think I can pick up the B*S if I get a bunch of answers that contradict each other.  If the answers are consistent as everybody here has been I feel safe accepting the answer as sound. Glad to know this technique is OK because its an alternative I may switch to if the short floating isn't working.

It seems the majority of people on the Stave were bottom bouncing - not sure if it has any advantages over short floating but they were catching a lot more fish than me (some people were using long leaders but I'm sure this did not apply to everybody).    Not sure why.  I was doing very well short floating colorado's earlier in the season only to see this get less and less productive as the season went on - could just be the fish were getting older and less inclined to take a spoon.

Thanks a lot for your answers..and thanks Searun.  I wil send a PM if I think of anything else - still on a steep learning curve with all of this.

[redlad]

Personally, and that is just me because we are dealing with an ethical question here, I find that most of the bottom bouncing on the Stave unethical (i.e. 4- 8 ft leader).  I too fished the Stave several times this year and found there was some very fresh chum.  I floated jigs anout 1 foot off bottom. 

It was paticularly upsetting the day I took 4 boys ages 10 - 13 there to fish.  I had to explain to them why they were working a bit for their fish (they all got fish), when other people seemed to getting them every cast.  Eventually they saw what i mean't though when they realized that most of those fish were coming in sideways.

p.s. I learned  that a net would have been great when dealing with big chum and young anglers.  They would have had their pictures taken with three times as many fish. Getting the fish in a position for me to tail them was an adventure.

[MERC]

Bottom bouncing with a short leader is a technique that has a place and time.  Fishing a deep slot with heavy water is the typical application because it's hard to fish a float effectively.  For some really good info, Jason Tonelli wrote an excellent article in BC Outdoors last year in the Nov/Dec issue.  For a relatively narrow river like the Stave, it's not necessary and in general, a float will work really well.  There's not really a lot of water that I would consider necessary for bottom bouncing on the Stave personally and if you're not hooking into fish, consider changing your presentation.  Colorado's work well but so does wool, roe or jigs, all in the right colors.  My experience with chum is that they can turn on and then they turn off at the drop of a dime and changing your presentation will often be the trigger needed to get into the next fish.  If you focus on your presentation: what you're floating, what color, what size and how it's moving through the water column, you will be a better fisher and can learn to adapt to any situation. 

[SeaRun]

You are welcome fishseeker!  MERC has provided some excellent info.   The Stave is a narrow "river" and is more suited to float fishing.   It is getting a little late for chum in the Stave as you may have noticed by the condition of the fish which is another reason why you may not be hooking as many on blades.   Float fishing wool on short leaders or jigs is usually more productive than lures for chum.

One type of water where you can bottom bounce blades on a 2-3 ft. leader is in the shallow tailout areas where it is difficult to float fish due to the rising river bottom.   This technique is productive for coho or steelhead that have just moved into the run or pool.   However, you have to use just enough pencil lead to feel the constant "tick" of the bottom & concentrate so you won't hang up.  Best of luck fishing!   

[fishseeker]

As always on this forum, I really appreciate your answers - it can get confusing with all of the different techniques available. 

Personally I really like short floating because its a rush to see that float dive and considerably less tiring than chucking a fly on my 9wt.  (I have had some limited success fly fishing for chums with colored wool but it really hurts between my shoulder blades after a while).  Its strange that I have not had any success short floating wool , somehow I have done better with the Colorado blades.

Even with people around me catching loads of chum short floating wool I have not got this working .  I have tried to copy what people are doing by imitating some of the setups I have seen (i.e Float, weight, swivel, leader 12-18 inches, wool presentation - about pea sized).  I have also tried maintaining as natural a drift as possible keeping the float vertical in the water - I notice a lot of people catching fish doing the exact opposite (i.e maintaining tension on the line so the float is almost horizontal - especially on the down swing).

It's all been fun but I think I am done with Salmon for this Season.   Thanks to all of your answers and just getting out there I think I will be in a better position next season. ( Going to be looking for cutthroats next I think.)

[coho_killer]

the secret to constinatly catching chum on the stave is short floating  bent rod jigs they wrk great and no snagging fish they hammer Them!

                                                                                                                    CK

[fishseeker]

Thanks Coho_killer.    Following up on what you have said I found an article on fishing with jigs.   I have just gotta try that next season

[Hohummm]

the secret to constinatly catching chum on the stave is short floating  bent rod jigs they wrk great and no snagging fish they hammer Them!
                                                                                                                   CK

I have to agree (this year anyway)! Used them for the first time this year. On several occasions, the chums hit so fast, it was like I had too much weight on. As soon as the float reached the water when casting, it sank. Also had far more success this year with small gold blades. Oddly though, I did not get a single hit on spoons, which have been deadly on the Stave in years past..

[fishseeker]

It's strange because they were slamming my large gold bladed spoons early in the season but it got less and less every time I went.  (I tried downsizing my spoons later and that definitely helped)

I can see it will be necessary to switch up various techniques when one isn't working.

[CohoOn!]

The reality is at this time of the year the colored salmon are slamming nothing. When you were having legitimate hook ups with your colorados it was because there were agressive fresh fish in the system.
I've been on the river numerous times in the past two weeks and every time I actually walked up to a guy bottom bouncing/long floating/long leader etc. etc. that seemed to be having incredible luck the fish were always hooked outside the mouth.
So no matter what anyone is telling you the bottom line is these fish are being skillfully snagged or flossed...same thing. And the least skillfull of these so called "fishermen" with thier 15-20lb leaders are torturing fish after fish by hauling them around by thier asses and ripping holes in thier sides. 6-8lb leader is all that's needed to land a properly hooked coho.
It's a disgrace and it's yet one more nail in the coffin of our salmon runs. Only solution for this absence of ethics is limiting retention  to one fish only and zero retention after a certain date when the fish no longer have any interest in what we throw at them.

[SeaRun]

Good point CohoOn!    Another regulations that may reduce this form of "fishing" is a gear restriction which allows:

float fishing with a short leader (eg. max 3 ft) or lure fishing without a float where you are allowed to add weight on your line.   

[BooBooBear]

 

Or maybe just call for fly fishing only..