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[Morty]

Here's the year to date numbers

7 pink  (it would have been better if THESE weren't killed)
23 steelhead
321 Coho
20,926 Chinook
79,650 Chum
268,192 Sockeye

(that's what DFO shows on their website for First Nations retention) 
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/firstnationsLF_e.htm

This causes me to wonder?  If that's all the fish that several dozen fishers can get, with the use of dozens of: Set nets, AND Drift nets, AND Beach Seine nets, out every weekend, for 5 or more months:

- should ANYONE be fishing the Fraser basin stocks AT ALL?

 
Rick

[4x4]

Whoever believes those numbers is living in another world.

[bentrod]

These might be the official #'s that DFO checked at their checksites.  I'm sure that 100% of all fish were checked in 

[Fish Assassin]

Whoever believes those numbers is living in another world.

I don't believe those numbers for a minute. Are these figures provided by the First Nations themselves ?

[Iris]

321 Coho!? That's per sunny afteernoon just at the Chehalis band boat launch right?. It begs the question, Is DFO complicit in this crime, or have they lost all control of the river that they pretend to be stewards of?
...Fire them all..

[Morty]

Hey Nuggy, I appreciate you doing the math and it does seem to be a lot of fish when you look at it that way.  We need to keep in mind though that some of that catch was for legitimate economic purposes, and some more was used at events that many British Columbians and tourists attended.  But that's not what this is about.

I truly believe that First Nations were short changed in the past and they do deserve some compensation for that.  Again, that's not what this is about.

We need to, and can rebuild these stocks!

It's important to our economy.  It's important to Rec fishers.  It's important to First Nations.  Each of the forementioned groups claims to respect the salmon but we're all trying to get our share before they're gone (that last part goes unsaid too often)

Have you seen the numbers that Alaska harvested this year?  If we had those numbers most of the problems on this site would go away.  First Nations could get all the fish they truly need in a weekend or two.  Rec. fishers could fish far more days.  The guiding business would be far more stable.   Tackle shops, motels, Starbucks, Tims  the whole Fraser River basin would benefit.  All resulting in more taxes to Victoria and no need to rely on the head tax they currently get from floating farms.

[glog]

surprise suprise Alaskan fish catch is up.

Surprise Surprise BC fish catch down.

Gee I wonder why!!! Could it possibly be that the Alaskans have figured out a way of catching the fish heading for BC while leaving their own stocks alone.

How long is this going to go on before our fisheries department wakes up to what is happening. Probably never.

As for the 321 coho what a crock. IN two hours I watched natives net and snag at least 60 Coho at mouth of Chehalis.  I phoned it ion and nothing happened, next time I watched them snag 8 fish in 10 minutes with treble hooks.  So 321 coho dream along!!!

[Morty]

Nice try, but our salmon don't come home by way of Alaska.  Our salmon start out their ocean journey by travellin up the coast to Alaska first, the circle out toward mid ocean then loop around southward.

They have WAY MORE fish because all the parties involved are participating in managing their resource well. 
Here's how well - 146 million this year.  And that's down 67 million from last year.

More impressive - that's how many they harvested.

We can do this too - the Fraser has supported 100 million in the past  (100 million sockeye plus Coho, Chinook, Pinks and Chum)

[BwiBwi]

American believe in hatchery supplement.  Canadian government believe in keeping gene pool variety.

[salmonsturgeontrout]

I have read a few articles stating American bycatch is an issue, one example is:
 Bering Sea pollock fishery accidentally takes 130,000 prize chinook; [Final Edition]
Terri Theodore. Whitehorse Star. Whitehorse, Y.T.: Feb 27, 2008. pg. 21
Copyright 2008 Whitehorse Star.
"40 per cent of those salmon were destined for rivers in British Columbia and the U.S. Pacific Northwest. The U.S. North Pacific Fisheries Management Council is looking over several options to prevent such a massive bycatch again, but it will be two years before new rules are implemented. "And in the meantime nobody's watching the fish," Gerry Couture said in frustration.The billion-dollar Bering Sea pollock fishery is the largest in the world. The bycatch issue has been a problem for years but never have so many chinook been caught up in the nets as in 2007. Jon Warrenchuk, a marine scientists with the American marine advocacy group Oceana, said the failure to cut the bycatch is a failure in regulation.About 90 per cent of the 130,000 chinook bycatch was picked up by trawlers, while the remainder was captured by all other fisheries in the Bering Sea" Thats 52,000 chinook that could have ended up in bc and the pacific northwest. Don't know about you but I'll never have any immitation crab meat again! Keep this in mind next time you go to buy some .
P.S. - It states in the article they did DNA analysis of the bycatch fish to determine where they were heading.

[clownfish]

American believe in hatchery supplement.  Canadian government believe in keeping gene pool variety.

Actually genetic variety isn't really negatively affected by hatchery operations that use the strains of fish from the waters the hatcheries operate on. From what I've learned about hatchery methods, they don't use the returning hatchery fish for breeding, this essentially guarantees that you don't lock in on any particular variants in the population they are working with. Although I'm pretty certain that there are still hatchery fish that manage to make it to spawn, and I doubt that there is any discrimination in breeding between the wild born fish and the hatchery ones when they are on the redds. I doubt very much that this is a cause for concern for the genetic variety that results from that, it is more likely to enhance the variation.

I think the main reason that our Federal and Provincial gov'ts have cut back on hatcheries in BC is because they are cheap SOBs.

[buck]

Clownfish

Hatchery coho, chinook and chum are used for brood stock. Any unmarked wild coho that stray into the hatchery are used as well. Only wild steelhead are used for brood stock on the Vedder and hatchery stock are used for the Stave. ( Chilliwack Stock )

[buck]

Morty

Preliminary numbers for early and mid timing chinook to the Fraser River are bleak and these stocks are in dire straights. These fish should not be targeted by any user groups if we are to have fish for the future.

[Terry D]

For the sake of all concerned parties, it sounds like we need reliable fish counters for all commercial and FN netting operations.  It is impossible to make plans for future salmon stocks using inaccurate data.  Maybe this is where we need to be pressuring our government and fishery 'experts'.  The whole issue stinks as much as the Vedder at the moment.

[BwiBwi]

American believe in hatchery supplement.  Canadian government believe in keeping gene pool variety.

Actually genetic variety isn't really negatively affected by hatchery operations that use the strains of fish from the waters the hatcheries operate on. From what I've learned about hatchery methods, they don't use the returning hatchery fish for breeding, this essentially guarantees that you don't lock in on any particular variants in the population they are working with. Although I'm pretty certain that there are still hatchery fish that manage to make it to spawn, and I doubt that there is any discrimination in breeding between the wild born fish and the hatchery ones when they are on the redds. I doubt very much that this is a cause for concern for the genetic variety that results from that, it is more likely to enhance the variation.

I think the main reason that our Federal and Provincial gov'ts have cut back on hatcheries in BC is because they are cheap SOBs.

Ya but that the arguement government is using.  To me I thinks it's BS especially if there is only a few fish left.  In hatchery setting you can actually mix more varient than in wild if you only have a few spawning pairs to work with.