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[janders]

I find it funny that during the elections Dion and Layton both outrightly refused to team up and now that they lost (AND lost even more seats to because more people are voting conservative) and no more than a few days after harper said he was pulling their government funding from all the parties and the parties will have to rely on contributions from their OWN supporters they decide they are best buddies with the BLOC!!! Harper isn't the best leader in the world and maybe not for Canada but he is way better than Dion or Layton who dont deny for one minute they want to be Prime Minister at any cost. For the love of God Dion used to be a Quebec seperatist and hes being OUSTED out of being the Liberal Leader in may because hes no longer trusted to lead the Liberals LET ALONE CANADA! And you want this guy to run the country and BORROW BILLIONS of dollars from the worlds largest PRIVATE banks. The IMF and World Bank. Where every dollar borrowed we will have to pay back with interest?

Harper is trying to find quick solutions to start saving money until he is able to release his Budget in january (Earlier than he is supposed to) like promised and if parliment isn't happy they can call for a re-election and allow Voters decide who should lead our country. And dont forget that no one (and i mean not one person in parliment) objected to his throne speach outlining his plan for Canada for the next year. And yet now apparently hes not doing enough and hes a bully and he has no plans to save our country?

The Auto sector is dying because GM is going bankrupt fast and Toyota is having their cars built in the states now becuase labor is cheaper in the states. And the lumber industry is failing because no one can afford to build houses in the states like before. Alos if the companies have no one buying wood then they WILL lay off people and use the free money from government to just pay off debt and the fat cats owning these companies will wait until a new venture can be started. No company will pay hundreds of people to sit at home regardless of how much money the government gives them. The states is not buying right now and wont be for awhile. I have friends in the lumber industry and car industry and i do feel real bad for them but those are the facts and i know it sucks but thats just the way it is.

Weathering a WORLD economic crisis isn't as easy as borrowing Billions of dollars and POOF all our problems are gone. It will take hard work and cutbacks and the country to get along and parliment to stop bickering and start passing new legislation and leading our country into the next decade and not complaining like children that they cant get everything they want because their guy isn't the boss right now. I dont get everything i want at work and i cant just overthrow my boss. But i still have to do what im told and work together with mangement to get the job done. Instead of ignoring MY JOB until everything is EXACTLY the way i want it. THEY are civil cervants and bickering over power instead of trying to work together is not in anyones best interest. IF they think a coalition government is so good why not have another election and have the boxs there. Consevative or Coalition and the other guys. See who the people choose then. I dont want some figurehead representative of ENGLAND decided who will be leading our country for the next 2 years!!!

The IMF has already labeled Canada as one of top nations in the world most prepared for the World crisis and able to weather the storm and that is because the conservatives has been preparing for it for over a year now which the liberals and NPD dont like to mention. If Dion thinks hes fit to lead our country he should have a non confidence vote and put our country into another election instead of asking the throne of England to give him power because less people this year gave him support than last year.

[milo]

Janders, there is one thing that you fail to see in your diatribe:

The Bloc, the NDP and the Liberals together do actually represent a Canadian majority.
A coalition government is nothing new in the democratic world. There have been excellent coalition governments in Europe for quite a while. Sure enough, sooner rather than later, unbridgable gaps and cracks appear in such coalitions, the result of which is often the disolution of the Parlament and a call for new elections. But hey, it's democracy at its best!

Regarding someone's comment that he/she didn't vote for Dion for PM...please get your facts straight: in the current Canadian electoral system, you only vote for an MP. Not for a Prime Minister, nor for a party. There are 2 independents sitting in Ottawa that have no party affiliations whatsoever. So, the prospect of Dion as PM is perfectly democratic and in tune with the current Canadian electoral system, which, we can all agree, is outdated and should be revised ASAP.

I have mixed feelings about all this. On one hand, I am worried that this political turmoil might affect the economy even more, but on the other, it shows that Canada is slowly but surely getting ready for some major (geo)political changes which are long overdue.
I can see Quebec finally calling it quits and taking the path to independence. A loss for the Canadian tradition, but probably, in the long run, a gain for all those involved.

A comparison between the world's geopolitical map of today and that of only a few decades ago shows that nothing is permanent and written in stone, not even election results or a country's borders. A government (any government) is just a bleep in the big screen of history. Politicians should always remember that, and consequently, be more humble when they are in power.

Harper's arrogance brought all this political turmoil upon us, and he will end up paying a high price. I just hope we (the populace) don't.

[janders]

Milo you are correct i shouldn't have worded that better about voting for Dion as PM. But when everyone went to vote, they voted for their MP who was affiliated with either the Conservatives or Liberals or NDP or Bloc or the other guys. I may be completely wrong wrong but im sure if another vote happened and people had to choose between the conservatives or coalition or the independents and green party etc etc. Then all the numbers would change dramatically because thats a whole new can of worms than voting for each party separately. and if the coalition won i would support them and hope they lead us correctly and down the right path because that is canadian politics. It's not a perfect system I know but it is what we have at the moment.

What bothers me is that the way they are creating this coalition is by asking England for it even though they were given the opportunity during the last election to form a coalition party which they refused.

I am also completely against any bailout options and borrowing money before making cutbacks and reorganizing the budget. When i think i'm gonna have trouble paying the bills next month i don't go ask the bank for more money. I make cutbacks on expenses that aren't 100% necessary for now and i tighten my belt so that i have a roof over my head and food on my plate and well fish on my hook

[troutbreath]

"fish on my hook "

I don't think Harper and crew could give a rats behind if you ever get another fish on your hook. They are busy selling off your rights to those fish through contributions to the Conservative Party. Get with the program, these guys couldn't give a toilet cookie about your right to fish or have a roof over your head.

[fishfinder]

 Forming a coalition is legal, but it's not ideal, especially with the Bloc as partner. Can't believe a smart and cunning guy like Harper could make such a blunder. He behaved as though he had a majority and now he is going to pay the price, which is to resign as the PM and party leader. I can't see him calling another election or proroguing. I don't think the voters will buy it. He has lost the confidence of the public and the House. He tried to put a knife into the opposition and ended up stabbing himself instead. In question period today he looked deflated. He knows he f**ked up royally. Mean spirited bullies do get their comeuppance after all. It's time for another conservative to step up as leader. Harper is done.

[kingpin]

hilarious, the separatists, socialists and liberals all together as one big happy family, so many vastly differently ideals, whether you like harper or the conservatives doesnt matter....a coalition with those 3 will do more harm than good... and if it comes to another election as it should, i will vote conservative again.

[dennisK]

 weather your conservative or not, if you give a **** about your county and care what your county thinks of you... check this site out!

 http://www.rallyforcanada.ca/

   

Hey limit time - any reason why in your profile page you chose to include a link to a webpage called "interpill" - a foreign drug site that sells Viagara (One of the most popular medications used to treat erection problems in men)? Do you buy from them regularly?

[janders]

Troutbreath

You are correct that there are obviously many within the conservative party (and also liberal, NDP etc.) that dont give a care if there is a roof over my head or ability to go fish etc etc. But my personal beliefs are that the Liberals and NDP at the moment are just talking green because it is the hot topic next to the world financial crisis so therefor i do not trust them. I believe Dion and Layton have no other goals than self fulfiling ambitions to be in power in canada for the next 2-?? years. Watching the partys "debate" is a joke because everything brought before the house from the conservatives are expelled and rediculed by the opposition like children on a playground and they never offer alternatives to conservative bills. Their ownly answer to everything is overthrow the conservatives. Maybe if they wanted more votes they should have focused on why to vote for them and how they plan to lead canada instead of telling everyone why not to vote for conservatives and if they do vote conservative they are against canada and want it to fall to pieces....

 I will not take any politition for face value but i believe strongly in the right to be able to vote for my government. Whether anyone believes a single vote counts or not, its still every canadians right and not up to a representative of the Queen of England.

[LargeMouthMinnow]

What angers me the most is that this is 100% political sabotage...not what's best for our country.  Some people have commented in the papers to remember that 65% of our country voted for those three parties "collectively"  That doesn't mean anything, that would assume that someone who voted for NDP in Hamilton would also agree with a union with the Bloc?  Would Hamilton have voted NDP if during the election, they stated they were sleeping with the Bloc and Liberals?  This is sickening...absolute chaos...the Harper:Conservatives weren't even given the opportunity to table a budget.  The number one reason (and could be Harper's downfall) is the $1.95 per vote political party funding that Harper messed with.  A coalition government with three polar opposite parties that conveniently decide to sleep together is suicide!  Don't forget, the Bloc don't actually want to separate...they just want the power generated from the threat of separation and the transfer payments that come with that threat.

grrrrrrr

[fishfinder]

The number one reason (and could be Harper's downfall) is the $1.95 per vote political party funding that Harper messed with

I voted Conservatives but I didn't vote for that. Don't know what PM Harper was thinking when he tabled this. As I said before Harper is a smart guy. One doesn't become a PM without a lot of brains. I am upset as anyone because a coalition is the last thing we need during a major recession. If Harper survives this I hope he shelves his personal agenda and give us a stable government to look after the welfare of all Canadians.

[Nicole]

The true face of Harper...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081203.wquebec1203/BNStory/National/home

Bloc part of secret coalition plot in 2000 with Canadian Alliance

A document obtained by The Globe and Mail shows that the scheme would have propelled then Alliance leader Stockwell Day to power in the coalition. A lawyer who was described then as being close to Day, says he didn't discuss the matter with the MPs

DANIEL LEBLANC

December 3, 2008 at 2:07 PM EST

OTTAWA — The separatist Bloc Québécois was part of secret plotting in 2000 to join a formal coalition with the two parties that now make up Stephen Harper's government, according to documents obtained by The Globe and Mail.

The scheme, designed to propel current Conservative minister Stockwell Day to power, undermines the Harper government's line this week that it would never sign a deal like the current one between the Liberal Party, the NDP and the Bloc.

Bloc officials said that well-known Calgary lawyer Gerry Chipeur sent a written offer before the votes were counted on election day on Nov. 27, 2000.

According to prominent sovereigntist lawyer Eric Bédard, who received the proposal, Mr. Chipeur identified himself as being close to Mr. Day, the leader of the Canadian Alliance at the time.

 “I never had the impression that I was involved in theoretical constitutional discussions,” Mr. Bédard said, adding he had never met Mr. Chipeur before.

A Bloc official said the link between Mr. Chipeur and Mr. Bédard was facilitated by Rodrigue Biron, a former Parti Québécois minister who was part of the unite-the-right movement in the late 1990s.

In addition to his discussions with Mr. Bédard, Mr. Chipeur said he also approached the chief of staff to Joe Clark, who was the leader of the Progressive Conservative Party.

The discussions were held about a two-page document entitled “Consensus Leadership for a New Century,” as well as a two-page proposal for a Speech from the Throne.

In an interview, Mr. Chipeur played down the importance of the offer, saying he never discussed the matter with Mr. Day or other MPs, and was simply getting ready in the event of a minority government.

“I was preparing for what might happen,” Mr. Chipeur said.

Still, the agreement included room at the bottom for the signatures of Mr. Day, Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe and Mr. Clark, to be signed the day after the election.

At the time, the Alliance was ready to fly Mr. Day from his BC riding to Calgary to pick up Mr. Clark on the way to Ottawa, where the deal was to be presented to the Governor-General in the event of a minority Parliament.

The Alliance government promised in the event of a coalition to “respect the legitimate jurisdictions of Canada's provinces, including Quebec.”

“We agree that we will support Stockwell Day as Prime Minister of Canada,” said the draft agreement, which would have hinged on Bloc support.

The plan fell apart as the final result of the election in 2000 saw the Liberals win a clear majority with 172 seats. By comparison, the Alliance, Bloc and PC Party only had a total of 116 seats. The NDP won 13 seats.

However, the draft agreement raises questions about statements this week from senior Conservative ministers who are blasting a Liberal-NDP coalition with Bloc support as a “deal with the devil.”

“The brutal fact here is that something has happened that has never happened before in Canadian history,” Mr. Day, the current Conservative Minister of Trade, said on CTV Newsnet on Tuesday. “And that is two federal leaders have actually signed a deal with a separatist party whose goal it is to destroy the country.”

Mr. Day was replaced at the helm of the Alliance in 2002 by Mr. Harper, who went on to oversee a merger of the Alliance and the PC Party.

Mr. Harper, now Leader of the Conservative Party and a minority Prime Minister, is waging an all-out fight against the proposed Liberal-NPD coalition, which includes Bloc support on confidence votes until June, 2010.

The Liberals, the NDP and the Bloc hope to defeat the Harper government on Monday, but the Conservatives will likely attempt to shut down Parliament in a bid to survive until January.

As Mr. Harper defended his government during Question Period on Tuesday, his Conservative caucus gave him repeated standing ovations and pointed to opposition benches with cries of “Shame! Shame! Shame!”

“We will have [in a coalition] a mechanism of permanent consultation empowering the Bloc Québécois on every question of importance, notably concerning the adoption of the budget. This Prime Minister, this government, this party has never and will never sign a document like that,” Mr. Harper said.

While in opposition, however, Mr. Harper asked then-Governor-General Adrienne Clarkson in 2004 to turn to him if Paul Martin's newly elected Liberal government were defeated in the Commons.

“We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority,” Mr. Harper said at the time.

The release of the 2000 draft agreement from the Canadian Alliance is likely to bolster the coalition's arguments that the Conservatives are engaged in double-speak.

Mr. Chipeur was a prominent lawyer in Alliance circles and an official member of the legal committee of the United Alternative, a key element of the unite-the-right movement. He went on to represent the Alliance in legal cases after the 2000 election.

A Bloc supporter, who was informed about the talks with him at the time, said the Alliance was willing to provide increased transfers, as well as the management of the long-gun registry, to the provinces.

The Bloc official added that the discussions with Mr. Chipeur included compromises on contentious issues, such as a promise to respect a straight majority of 50-per cent plus one in the event of a future referendum on Quebec sovereignty. The move would have gone against the Liberal Clarity Act, which calls for a stronger majority.

But Mr. Chipeur said he simply looked at the public positions of the various parties in drafting his proposal and conducting the informal talks.

[Fish Assassin]

The plot thickens. Who is really telling the truth ? Seems nobody ..

[mooch]

 Nobody seems to be talking about the effect of this on our financial markets and our economy. The TSX dropped 10% the last few days because of this mess. You have to feel badly for the pensioners who have their savings in stocks and bonds. All Harper had to do was to govern well and he could have had his majority in two years.

[janders]

I realize that shows that Stockwell Day was ready to get in bed with the Bloc but the Bloc have always been creating alliances with all the partys. they dont have enough seats becuase they are only voted into power from quebec and parts of ontario and hold no real power other than to get there way when another party needs their votes. Thats how they opperate and always will until maybe one day those who support he Bloc decide they are canadian and that wont change so stop trying to seperate.

I dont care who decides make a coalition or if a coalition holds power in canada. The thing that burns me up about this whole thing is that canada is not able to vote on the matter and the decision is in the hands of an ex journalist who is now a figurehead of the queen of england. The whole reason the partys are taking this route is because they know that most likely the conservatives would have won mojority no problem because enough people would have not liked the taste of voting for the Liberals AND NDP AND Bloc at the same time. Just because someone votes liberal means they will ever vote NDP and etc etc. They are trying to take power through a loop hole in our constitution and anyone who is willing to do that should be abolished from canadian politics. No matter what affiliations they have in my opinion. If harper pulled this same thing the liberals are right now i would be sickened by his actions like i am now by the current coalition.

[speycaster]

The supreme court of Ontario stated in a decision to not allow a constituent to sue the government of the day for not keeping election promises that  telling lies was a necessary part of the political system. Not that i have ever met an honest politician.