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[BwiBwi]

for Harper, how do you trust someone who tried passing a bill to undermine our democratic political funding?

Why should political parties get funding from government

[bbronswyk2000]

for Harper, how do you trust someone who tried passing a bill to undermine our democratic political funding?

Why should political parties get funding from government

They have been for years. Harper is only doing this because the Cons are rich, the Liberals, and NDP have no money. They dont want a fair election. They dont want the Liberals and NDP to be able to compete. It should be a fair race and by cutting them off its not. Do you think if the Cons had less money they would have introduced this? Not likely.

[salmonsturgeontrout]

As I understand, the reason this was brought into effect was to prevent what has happened in the USA with their politics and how major corporations control a lot of the content which is released by the political parties and to put a stop to the influences brought on by major corporations funding political parties. For example if the liberals or conservatives were sponsored by the oil sands or say car manufacturers the political parties would have no chance at increasing taxes for these companies as they would likely pull their funding, also those parties that are funded by corporations tend to pass bills that would help out those companies in kind of a, you help me I'll help you attitude. Notice down in the states, in the republican party they were for offshore oil drilling? That is because John McCain has major money in oil companies as well as other republicans and they are a major sponsor of the republican party. It has been proved by scientists and oil speculators etc. that even if they did drill it would take ten years to effect the oil prices and would likely drop by only 1-2 cents meaning little to no difference.So why the big push on oil drilling that won't effect the price to the average person by much? Because they are influenced by their sponsors (oil companies) Same thing on the Democrats, they are funded by many environmental groups (wind,solar etc.). Basically it tries to stop the influence of major money corporations on political parties and their political strategies.

[troutbreath]

Harper's the new Hitler Zeig Heil

More propaganda on the radio than any other party can afford. The ovens are heating up for those who don't toe zie line.

[marmot]

Well TH, I do understand privatization.  For certain things, I think privatization is a good alternative, but for others such as education, natural resources, healthcare etc, you don't have to look far to see the negative effects.

As for regulation.....provided by who?  More private companies?  You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that the companies that regulate the least will get the most business.

I for one am proud to be able to give back to society in the form of taxation.  The more i can make, the more i can give back....to me, that is what living in canada is all about and part of what makes me proud to be a canadian.  Social priorities, and not selfish ones.  Sometimes I wish it our taxes were spent more responsibly, of course....but I was taught that helping other people is a good thing.  I take pride in the fact that many Canadians feel the same way and that greed and selfishness doesn't guide their behavior.

I guess that's why I typically don't get along well with neocons



 

[BwiBwi]

for Harper, how do you trust someone who tried passing a bill to undermine our democratic political funding?

Why should political parties get funding from government

They have been for years. Harper is only doing this because the Cons are rich, the Liberals, and NDP have no money. They dont want a fair election. They dont want the Liberals and NDP to be able to compete. It should be a fair race and by cutting them off its not. Do you think if the Cons had less money they would have introduced this? Not likely.

I tried to find figures on what each party's balance sheet is like but can't find it.  Do you have any links I can take a look at?

[bbronswyk2000]

Nope no links but they reported it right after the election. They have also mentioned it on the news during this whole mess.

[adriaticum]

Salmonsturgeontrout,
I don't want your money or my money, funding any political party, unless you or I give them the money.
I like the cut he was trying to make and that cut would apply to him too, when he makes it into the opposition.
Opposition parties always look at laws as they apply in the short term, but never in the long term.
Very, very few look at the laws in the long term.
Liberals and NDP are raising hell about this because they would lose money and power, they don't really care about people or their party in the long term.
This is a good thing.

You got me all wrong. I am socially conservative, but I am a nonpartisan, not a member of any party and a member of all parties.
Frankly, I think parties should be illegal.
Right now, we elect MPs who are nothing more than sheep in parliament and vote however their shepherds tell them to.
That's not democratic at all.
And that is the state of current parliament. Here and in the US.

On the womens' rights thing, I don't know much about it, but if it has a title "Women's pay equity", I am a little skeptical.
Sound to me like regulating the regulated regulation with yet another regulation.
I don't want anyone's pay equity to be part of any law.
There is no law that says men have to make more money than women.
There is no scale to measure value or someone's worth. This is very tricky business.
So there is no reason elevate anyone by using laws. Less laws, more common sense, more happiness. IMO. (This republican motto, I agree with)
Lawyers will tell you we need that law because they will make tonnes of money making it. It's just advertising.
I think there is lots of opportunity for both women and men. In my field there was almost more women then men at one time. I had 2 female execs for about 4 years. Now they are hard to find.
Since then I moved into the small business arena and there are more women entrepreneurs then men.
If we elevate one's by law we create imbalance.
Like giving bad company like GM money so they can procreate bad business practices.
It's dangerous.
People are deciding which company is good and which one is not.
I am more of a Darwinist and believe things should be left to their own devices for the most part. Create a playground with regulations, have someone to referee the game and let people play.
People are good just as they are and have empathy, and like company of other people and so will naturally learn to live together.
If laws don't burden them.
I think we've had enough history of violence and don't think a guy like Hitler can ever rise again.

Your theory of where the money came from for Democrats and Republicans is dead wrong. That's a stereotype we've been taught.
Big oil votes for Republicans, and Joe the plumber votes Democrat.
No.
Dems got more money from big business this time around.
Everyone wanted Republicans out.

I know Conservatives had to get rid of some people from the party, that's ok. They should get rid of them. Some people shouldn't be in politics.
There are a few goons around Harper, no doubt.
But overall today, I think they are the better party and have my vote.
Tomorrow, is a whole different ball game.

[salmonsturgeontrout]

A) any law will inevitably effect something long term, therefore parties must look at the long term and short term effects and outway which is best(in their belief)
B)the liberals and Ndp raising hell about power and money shows they care about their long term status (cant play politics without money and power) and if you can prove me wrong? last I checked Tim Felger hasn't been elected
C)you admit you are conservative so how do i see you are wrong? "You got me all wrong. I am socially conservative, but I am a nonpartisan, not a member of any party and a member of all parties.I think they are the better party and have my vote" How can you be socially conservative, think they are better, vote for them but be nonpartisan ?one is influenced by their beliefs, wether they think they are or are not
D)The women's rights bill, was to introduce a law to prevent and oppose sexism in the work place. if a man and woman do the same job and do it the same quality why should a woman be paid less? its sexist to think they should be paid less just because they are women.Do you support sexist practices?
E)"If we elevate one's by law we create imbalance."- wether anyone likes it or not the TRUTH is the more laws the more balance and regulation. That is a fact. This doesn't mean I want 10 trillion laws but thats  the truth. What you stated is in effect an oxymoron.
F) "There is no law that says men have to make more money than women"- no, but there should be because sexism still exists
G)There is no scale to measure value or someone's worth- dependant upon the job there is IE) work ethic, speed, productivity etc.
h)"If we elevate one's by law we create imbalance. Like giving bad company like GM money so they can procreate bad business practices"-there is a difference between this and seeing two people that do the same job with the same efficiency being paid differently just because of the sex of the individual.
I)"People are good just as they are and have empathy, and like company of other people and so will naturally learn to live together.If laws don't burden them."- not entirely true, as many heard the salvation army and food bank were robbed, does that show empathy, that they like people or that they are learning to live "together" NO, there is an opposite to every positive in the universe
J)"Your theory of where the money came from for Democrats and Republicans is dead wrong. That's a stereotype we've been taught. " - don't believe me look in to the donors and sponsors of the democrats and republicans and do some fact checking on these companies and you'll change your mind. John McCain and George Bush Sr. and Jr. are all big oil family's
K) Joe plumber was made up, racist, a republican and a liar ( not a plumber, not named Joe, not making 250,000 and not from where he said he was)
l)Dems got more money from big business this time around.- if you read my post I never said anything about who made more, only that the conservatives have more money than all other parties , so not sure why you mentioned this?
m)Why did you go into attack onto liberals members, and not mention problems with other parties including conservatives? this is not a one party problem, they all have bad members - this shows a biased opinion.
and to conclude this alphabetical political post if you would like to discuss this back and forth conversation further Adriaticum perhaps it would be in the best interest of the thread to conclude this public posting session and if you would like to continue conversing, you can pm me and leave this thread to continue for others before it becomes locked.

[adriaticum]

Ha,ha we could solve all the worlds problems.

A) Yes it inevitably does, but they don't look at it that way. They opposition parties, and parties in general, are all about them and how it affects them, now.
B) Sure, I think this law should be passed with the large majority supporting it. I don't exactly agree with the timing of it, but it should be passed. I guess Harper knew he would get good support for it from the public, but he figured he could jab the opposition at the same time. I don't care how it affects any one party, really. I think it's a good proposition and it should be the law.
C) Just because I am socially leaning conservative it doesn't mean I throw my mouth behind everything Conservatives do or say. There is a big difference. My values don't quite agree with any particular party. They have little bits of of all of them and a lot of what they don't have.

D),E),G),H)  "If a man and woman do the same job and do it the same quality why should a woman be paid less?" 
No she shouldn't, but who can accurately gauge this? Who can accurately gauge the value this (wo)man brings to their company?
Bring this divine being forth!
It's all psychological.
You tell some HR manager that he should pay something to someone and he will laugh.
It's like there can't be any discrimination based on age, sex, marital status, social status, educational background, pregnancy status, perceived intelligence.
Did that law work?
Salary based on much more than just education and skill.
Its based much more on the soft skills and perceived values.
Education and awarenes are the key here, but I don't want to go into this discussion. This is a social issue, There is a whole other book on that.
Politics is the name of the game.

I) Yes, but do you know who stole from Salvation Army? Probably some poor bastard who needed something to eat and doesn't have a roof over his head. Maybe he is a drug addict too. Do you think he received any empathy from others? It's a vicious cycle. You give, what you receive and what you know. Not that I'm justifying this action.
I went downtown the other day to see Robin Williams and I couldn't believe my eyes how many people were on the street asking for change. This is unbelievable.
If you think you live in a developed country, go down town for a day. I have neve seen this in my flippin life.

J), K) I don't believe you, I know you are off target here.

M) Actually I'm not the one on the offensive, I was defending policies I believe were right and good for people. Ok, an offensive defenceman.
Of course some will disagree.
It was the Liberals, NDP and Bloc who were on the offensive. Remember how this all started a few weeks ago...??
Life was good and we were waiting for steelhead to move into the Vedder and then these 3, who shall remain anonymous on Mars, said they were going to form some sort of a coalition to overthrow the elected government.
Go figure

That's ok, if they lock the thread, this is a political thread after all. It's not like they will run out of hard disk space.
Anyway I should leave politics to the stooges, you win!

[salmonsturgeontrout]

First let me start by saying that when you say they don't look at it that way. That you don't know, and no one knows unless you are close to those in charge. I think that yes they probably do whats best for their party but all parties do and its not right to put words in other peoples mouths without knowing for a fact that it is the truth. It was not Harper that wanted the bill passed, he opposed it as did a lot of conservatives and it was the opposition that jabbed him about it. I never said that you throw your mouth behind everything conservative, did I? I stated and I quote "one is influenced by their beliefs, wether they think they are or are not" - that is simple psychology, and again everyone, wether they think, or are willing to admit, are influenced by the beliefs and the way they vote- if you vote for someone on say American idle and they mess up a song, you still want to see them go to the final, am i right? thats my point, if a politician you vote for messes up, you still want to see them succeed because you are voting based on you believing they will do a better job than the opposition. I am not sure what kind of job you work in but with most jobs  you can gauge it. In the majority of everyday jobs, your pay and rate of advancement is based on your work ethic, speed, efficiency, interaction with others, wether your on time etc etc etc. so it can be gauged for MOST jobs and the person that gauges this is the boss/manager of the company. And at my last job the HR manager did decide who got paid what based on a persons performance-thats what they did there.Soft skills are still a skill, thats why they are called soft "skills", and a persons values/beliefs should never play a role in a job- unless you are talking about if a person will steal from the company  (in that sense you are correct) but religion etc. have no role in a workplace and most don't allow any talk of it. My point of mentioning the robbery was to bring to point the fact you mentioned "People are good just as they are and have empathy, and like company of other people and so will naturally learn to live together. If laws don't burden them." was that this statement is completely untrue, there is a lot of empathy yes, but there are a lot of bad people out there as well, that is the way it is, the world will always have bad people, greed has become human nature, would everyone give up their belongings to make everyone have the same thing ? no because everyone is greedy to some extent and this proves that statement was incorrect.- You go to Africa and tell me the lack of laws is a good thing (had an exchange student at our work, he had his bike stolen, cops told him to steal one that looks similar). Fact is laws create balance and justice. If you don't believe me about Joe and the sponsorships , I told you to look it up, you don't have to believe me, but they had a special on CNN about the REAL Joe the plumber and yes the sponsors are correct- again don't believe it if you don't want to but the facts are there if you look it up.All parties must release where they get their funding from by law.As for saying that you are not on the offensive, thats a flat out lie, we both are on the offensive defending what we believe in, fact, like it or lump it. And it was Harper on the offensive by trying to pass/ boycott the laws bills. It was the opposition that came up in the defensive to protect their rights.They did not try and squash their own funding, Harper did, that makes him the aggressor, remember that? Anyways, the reason I posted on the political thread was to promote the other parties much like those that posted originally to promote who they believe in. I find politics extremely interesting and follow very closely as it is crucial to our future. Although I don't agree with all the postings ( I am sure others  don't agree with mine) it is nice to see people besides myself passinate about something so crucial to our future. After seeing the voter turnout you start to wonder how many people actually care about their own as well as this country's future.
P.S.- Not meaning to pick on you Adriaticum but you seem to be flip-flopping on some of your postings, in my opinion that just reinforces my points.