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[fishseeker]

I have done a lot of reading on Chironomid techniques but never actually used them.  Since I started fly fishing two seasons back I have mostly used standard patterns like woolly buggers, halfbacks etc. because that was a good way to start.   Since trout, apparently, get 40% of their diet from chironomids it would seem I am neglecting something very important and I have a desire to get some practice with this when the season starts up again.

Now for my questions:

a) Is chirinomid fishing worthwhile on stocked lakes like Mill/Lafarge/Buntzen etc. ?

Not sure if it is worth bothering with this technique on trout that have been raised on artificial feed.

Have any of you tried on Buntzen? I think the depth of that lake may lend itself better to sinking line techniques but I am not sure how productive it is.

b) I believe the floating setup is fly line, approx 20 feet of leader, strike indicator, small splitshot above tippet knot, tippet & fly.  How do you deal with casting 20ft of leader?

Until I get a boat that will allow me to stand up I will be fishing in an inflatable that is not stable enough for standing.   Is it even possible to cast that length of leader in a seated position?  If it is possible how is it done?  (In some previous posts I have read it can be done by a roll cast first then a bunch of false casts to get the line out).

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Geoff.

[Geff_t]

I use chronies on Mike lake to practice for the bigger fish  . I am in a pontoon and have no problem casting and have even seen it done in float tubes. You do not need 20 feet of leader if you are not fishing that deep of a lake. Practice in shallower water first. I also do not use micro shot but I do use a shivel with flourocarbon as my tippet.

[HOOK]

I catch most of my fish on chironomids in our local lakes. stocked fish are lazy and like food that just hangs there suspended in thier faces LOL Buntzen is different though, i have done my best days there trolling a black spratley on a floating line with 13-14' leader. so i would imagine chironies would work there also. chronies are not a searching pattern so i would suggest while your learning how&when to use them. fool the first fish with a searching fly and pump its stomach, from there you will have a good idea of what colour and size of chironie to start with. another good thing for fishing these is to start about 1 to 2 feet off the bottom and keep moving up the water column until you find where the fish are feeding. (of course a fish finder helps to narrow this down as you can see the depth the fish are staging at)

in our local lakes i find black with red ribs works best for me most days but black with silver ribs also works very well. these can be tied with white, copper & silver beadheads  and in sizes 12 & 14 work best.

hope that helps a bit.

[fishseeker]

I like the swivel idea because I am not great at tying tippets to leaders - too fat fingered 

I also know to use searching patterns and to pump the stomach contents to get an idea of size & color so I will be using that method.  Thanks also for the tip about fly size and color.  I got a selection of cronies on advice from Pacific Angler and I can see they have given me a few in a range of sizes that are black with red ribs so thats good.

One other thing:

I currently have the standard 4lb 9ft dragon fly leaders.    If want to start using longer leaders (say to 16 feet) is it OK to add add an additional 8ft of tippet or should I be purchasing longer leaders ?  (Not sure what it's like to cast with long lengths of tippet added).

Looking forward to when they start stocking again so I can put this all into practice and I guess a fishfinder would make things a lot easier too. (my next purchase I think)

Thanks both of you.
Geoff.

[HOOK]

here is a little reading about leaders and matching line sizes for ya.

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CFPageC?storeId=10151&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&&mode=article&objectID=32635&catID=&subcatID=0

that will give you a good idea especially for adding new peices of tippet to pre-made leaders. If your leader says its a 7X(the size for 4lb) then you want to go with the same 7X or even an 8X off the end. best thing to do is read the article but more remember the chart of leader thicknesses & poundages  I dont go lighter then 6lb(5X) when fishing trout but will use 4or3lb(7or8X) for chironies  but never for a moving fly cause i hate having them snap off on the hookset. Oh and i use 3lb on small streams of course 

[bbronswyk2000]

Fishseeker are those leaders you bought tapered leaders? If so you dont need tapered leaders for chronie fishing. Just used some 4lb flouro. I usually tie a 15 foot leader. That pretty much covers me for everything. If I want to deep water chronie fish I will use a full sinking line and go right below the boat. That means no indicator. It also means holding onto your rod. I use tapered leaders for my dry fly fishing and usually 12 foot leaders.

Its not as difficult as some make it out to be. Actually its one of the easiest forms of fishing. Once you know where to fish its all about getting the right depth and thats it. Start from a foot off the bottom. Use a hand twist as well sometimes instead of leaving it static. I am a pretty lazy fisherman so most of the time I fish chronies after 11am as their well be a chop on the water most of the time and that well give the chronie some movement. I have found that 11am-3pm seems to be the best chronie fishing. When its not that time I am either casting or trolling.

If you are ever on the island I would be happy to take you out and show you as well as show you my still water rig.

[lucky]

Although tapered leaders are not 100% mandatory when fishing chironomids, they sure do help!

Sometimes casting a 15-20 foot leader can be tough, a tapered leader will allow the fly to turn over easier creating less wind knots and tangles. 

In most cases a 15 foot leader that ends in six pound test is ideal, just take a couple feet of appropriate flourocarbon and tie on for the tippet.

If I dont have any pre made leaders I simply tie 6 feet of 8lb to 6 feet of 6lb and around 3 feet of 4lb flouro.

[fish2much]

An awsome lake to learn to chronie on is rolley.  It gets to about 35ft deep, and on sunny days you have to be at about 30 feet to catch anything over 12 inches.  I fish with a number 6 sinking line to get nice and deep and about a 12foot leader.  I find small twitches to your fly will trigger more strikes as you are giving the fish something to set apart your fly from the hundreds of chronies around it.

[fishseeker]

Thanks again for all of the great answers.  Half the fun of fishing is the opportunity to learn from others and this thread has been very helpful.  Hopefully there will come a time when users on this forum can benefit from my experience but it sure takes a long time to learn.

Thanks Hook for the article on leaders - I have book marked it and I will make a point of reading it again before I head out on my next attempts.  I think I could be fishing too light in the stocked lakes where water clarity is not much of an issue (I typically use 5X leader with 4lb tippet even when I am trolling).  So far I have not been snapped off but the trout I got into where never that big.

The leaders I bought are tapered and it is also my understanding that it is easier to cast them because they roll out properly. I have never tried casting long lengths of non-tapered leader.  Thanks Bbronkwyk for the tip on 4lb flouro.  So far I have only used nylon mono but I see the article Hook sent me talks about about flouro leaders too.  Something else I will need to play with.

All your answers bring to mind more questions and comments as usual.  I hope you don't mind me asking so many questions.  Here they are:

a) I fished on Rolley once and it is a very nice lake. (Just trolling so far) I have a fast sinking line that will get my fly down fast if I want to fish directly below the boat.   I have also have a good source reference called 'The Gilly' - its a great little book that I keep reading again every time I head out.  According to one article in that book on cronie sinking techniques 6ft of leader is used.  (He does say that leader length makes no difference for him when working a sinking line).  As far as I am concerned the less leader I need to work the better so sinking line techniques are appealing.

b) Lucky, do you tie flouro to mono? Is it OK to mix diffent types of line?

c) Should I consider tying a loop knot to the fly?  (The cronie patterns I have are small and the loop knot may allow more natural movement when I attempt those short twitches and retrieves).

Thanks for the invite bbronswyk.  I do go out to Victoria from time to time and I have tried fishing in Thetis lake once - got a very nice bass on the fly there.  With luck I will get out there in the spring and it would be great to head out with you provided the timing works out.  It would be very instructive to see your still water setup.  If I am out there for a weekend I will let you know for sure.

[Rodney]

Do you tie flouro to mono? Is it OK to mix diffent types of line?

I like to connectthe mono leader and fluro tippet by using a small swivel, which also acts as additional weight to get the fly down to the fishing depth more quickly.

[typhoon]

b) Lucky, do you tie flouro to mono? Is it OK to mix diffent types of line?

c) Should I consider tying a loop knot to the fly?  (The cronie patterns I have are small and the loop knot may allow more natural movement when I attempt those short twitches and retrieves).

It is perfectly acceptable to tie fluoro to mono. Use a blood knot or double/triple surgeon's knot. When Fluoro first came out it would cut the mono, but this is no longer the case.

With Fluoro of 6lb test or lighter a loop knot is not required. it is limp enough for the chironomid to sit right. Many good chironomiders (much more successful than me) don't want the added bulk of a loop knot above the fly.

[HOOK]

i personally use a loop knot on my chironies only just for the added knowingness that they are always sitting correctly. I use the DUNCAN LOOP knot for but you could also use the Perfection loop. I do use this on some other flies but not always. Now, if im changing chronies alot then i will just clinch knot the fly on until i find the one thats working then i pull it in (or after a fish) i will loop knot it on. Loop knots use up more line to tie.

you can make your own tapered leaders also which is I find better then buying tapered leaders.

[bbronswyk2000]

The Loop knot is way over rated. I personally tested it last year on purpose. I used both. I caught just as many or more not using the loop knot. If its a confidence thing by all means use it but after testing it several times last year at different lakes it made no difference.  Like typhoon said using 4-6lb line you dont need it. Any of the lower mainland lakes you will never need more than 4lb fluoro as the fish dont get any size to them.

[Sterling C]

The Loop knot is way over rated. I personally tested it last year on purpose. I used both. I caught just as many or more not using the loop knot. If its a confidence thing by all means use it but after testing it several times last year at different lakes it made no difference. 

Just my opinion but you are way off base with this one.

Loop knots allow your fly to hang perfectly vertically. Maybe small stupid fish don't care about this but the big boys sure do know the difference.

[bbronswyk2000]

The Loop knot is way over rated. I personally tested it last year on purpose. I used both. I caught just as many or more not using the loop knot. If its a confidence thing by all means use it but after testing it several times last year at different lakes it made no difference. 

Just my opinion but you are way off base with this one.

Loop knots allow your fly to hang perfectly vertically. Maybe small stupid fish don't care about this but the big boys sure do know the difference.

Nope not way off base at all. Maybe the fish you catch are small.

Here are a few chronie caught fish from last year NOT using a loop knot. How about a 40 fish day on a lake in the Kamloops region ( have witnesses if you need the proof ) all not using the loop knot and not one fish under 16 inches. Sorry but not off base at all.











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