Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[colin6101]

This is when you go up to them and say... "Hey, have you checked out that website Fishing with Rod? It tells you how to catch salmon on the Tidal Fraser with spoons."

Education (not to be confused with "education" in some of the sockeye threads) can make things better for everyone.

I should have thought of mentioning the site! I did however show them what has worked for me in the past there and inform them that the upper river was closed above Agassiz (they told me they were going to try Scale Bar the next day). Im not morally judging people who bottom bounce, I just thought it was sad that they didn't have a clue how to fish slack water.

[mattyo]

Was out this weekend and was pleasantly surprised to see how many people were not bottom bouncing. This newest notice must have made some think twice about snagging their springs . I think there were about 4 or 5 bar rigs on grassy

[jetboatjim]

I have fished bars below island 22 the last few weeks.. i can say i hook more springs then sockeye. And i have nothing to hide, i love to Bounce...  You just have to know where to anchor your boat.. you want to fish the "sping"  water not slack water where the sockeye most likely to be resting.  Plus, i have talked to the researcher guy the other day, he told me that they have over 175 fish in the pan last seaseon, all caught by bouncing, hold them for 24hrs and only 2 didn't make it...  which is just little over 1%.  Which it proven that even a snaged sockeye, if release they will make it to spawing ground.   

Did they follow these fish through the canyon?
did they radio tag them?
did they tag and record, and follow up on natal streams?

they wont know if that snagged sockeye made it the 500 km...

[alwaysfishn]

Thanks Jim, too many bb'ers hiding behind " its a legal method to fish "

    

It is a legal method   

And I don't think that the bb'ers were hiding.....   That's why they were banned from the upper fraser along with all other salmon fishermen... 

[Reel Lucky]

There seems to be a lot of complaining and blaming, but you guys should feel fortunate that your fisheries actually takes some action.  It may not always be the most accurate action but they aren't going to make everyone happy.  If they don't do something soon the fisheries is going to end up like us here in the states, underfunded and non regulated.  I agree with both sides of the arguement whether to bottom bounce or not.  I agree that it isn't the most talented fishing and it may target some sockeye, but it also targets other fish species.  It is practically the only method because the river is so dirty.  Fisherman need to learn to cast out there where the springs are sitting.  I have seen time after time the people that short cast right over me either hook a sock or get tangled up.  Where as the guys in my boat are bombing it out there and only hooking springs.  If they are worried about the catch and release of the socks then make i t manditory that there is no handle of the fish and use a release hook.  It is unfortunate that many people bought there licenses looking forward to the awesome year and are again let down.  Next time predict low and suprise us instead of devistating us.

[Easywater]

Massive catch of Sockeye yesterday in Area 13 (Johnstone Strait): 2465 when they have been catching between 100 and 300 per day.

Also reports of large numbers of Sockeye off Ucluelet.

15,800 Pinks caught in Area 13 as well.

[tsawytscha]

Massive catch of Sockeye yesterday in Area 13 (Johnstone Strait): 2465 when they have been catching between 100 and 300 per day.

Also reports of large numbers of Sockeye off Ucluelet.

15,800 Pinks caught in Area 13 as well.

Are they (sockeye ) Fraser-bound run(s)

Here is the letter to the Minister:

------ Forwarded Message
From: Alexandra Morton <wildorca@island.net>
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:36:00 -0700
To: "Min@dfo-mpo.gc.ca" <Min@dfo-mpo.gc.ca>, "sproutpa@pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca" <sproutpa@pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca>, <Rosenburger@pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca>
Cc: "fishfarmrev@lists.onenw.org" <fishfarmrev@lists.onenw.org>, Ernie Crey <sqemel@shaw.ca>, Bob Chamberlin <mooguy@shaw.ca>
Conversation: DFO how do you know?
Subject: DFO how do you know?

Dear Fisheries Minster Shea:

I am following the news that DFO is reporting 11 million sockeye salmon have vanished.  The magnitude, social impact and trajectory of this fishery failure is on a par with the collapse of Canada’s  Atlantic cod.  Scientists have published on what went wrong within DFO to allow the cod, one of earth’s most abundant food resources to collapse.  They identified political distortion of the science as a critical factor. They argue the public was not accurately informed as the collapse was underway.

(Hutchings, J.A., Walters, C., and Haedrich, R.L. 1997. Is scientific inquiry incompatible with government information control? Can. J. Fish. Aquat. Sci. 54: 1198–1210. )

This brings me to several recent comments in the media attributed to high-ranking DFO employees.  Bary Rosenburger, DFO area director for the Fraser,  describes the Fraser sockeye collapse as unexpected and that DFO doesn’t know what happened  (Globe and Mail, Aug 13, 2009). But the next day he goes on to say it does not look like fish farms are responsible (BCLocalNews.com). 

On August 15, Paul Sprout, Pacific Region Director for DFO published a letter in the Globe and Mail “Sea lice from fish farms are not the explanation of this year’s extremely poor marine survival of Fraser River sockeye...”

Given both the importance of the Fraser sockeye to the BC economy, ecology and First Nations; and the analysis that DFO political interference with science may have allowed the east coast cod to collapse, it is reasonable to ask what science did Sprout and Rosenburger use to inform the public that fish farms are not responsible for this sockeye collapse?

Two of your highest ranking employees involved with this fishery have publicly exonerated the fish farmers, an industry  associated with catastrophic salmon collapse worldwide (Ford and Myers 2008) and here in BC (Krkosek et al 2007).

The most recent past catastrophic BC wild salmon collapse was in 2002 when 99% of the Broughton pink salmon failed to return. The Pink Salmon Action Plan (http://www.fish.bc.ca/node/135) temporarily removed farm salmon from the Broughton pink salmon migration route and the next generation of pink salmon returned at the highest survivorship ever recorded for the species (Beamish et al 2006). That management decision was reversed and the stock collapsed again.

Dr. Brian Riddell of the Pacific Salmon Foundation suggests that answers to the fate of these sockeye may lie in what happened to them right after they left the Fraser River, before they reached the open ocean.  I and others did examine this run of sockeye shortly after they left the Fraser River. We were the last scientists to see these fish before they disappeared, and they had up to 28 sea lice on them as they passed the salmon farms off Campbell River.

Before you reply that DFO’s Dr. Simon Jones says young salmon are highly resistant to lice, please review his publications.  I do not find the data in his studies to support this claim once the lice are attached to the fish. Many international scientific papers  run contrary to Dr. Jones’ assertions.

I cannot tell you that fish farms definitely killed all 11 million missing Fraser sockeye, but fish farms most certainly are involved because DFO and the Province of BC sited them on the Fraser River migration route. The missing sockeye did swim through fish farm effluent. Rather than exempting fish farms from your investigation you must order complete disclosure of the health and number of farm salmon on the missing Fraser sockeye migration route in 2006-present. And we, the people of Canada and beyond, need to know why DFO is exonerating fish farms in the first few days of the investigation on what happened to one of earth’s most generous human food supplies?

Alexandra Morton
www.adopt-a-fry.org

[JustinG]

From my understanding, Alexandra Morton is not a marine biologist nor is she even a scientist on any accredited level. I have heard her debate her side with actual marine biologists and her arguments fail and when they do she switches to fear mongering.

I would ask why is the Harrison run producing such high returns while every run up river is collapsing? Why is it that as our population increases we do not demand that our tax dollars go towards better infrastructure to deal with OUR waste? Fish farms do create an environment where sea lice can thrive but OUR pollution is the most SIGNIFICANT variable... very few consider what they flush down the toilet, pour down their drain and wash down our storm drains. Personally, that is what I focus on, not the red herring I believe we are being led with.

[dereke]

Are they (sockeye ) Fraser-bound run(s)

 I believe they are yes. The test set website show what directed stock the particular set is for i.e. Barkley or Fraser fish. I still think all this doom and gloom may be a little premature. Here's to hoping this will be the beginning of it.........

[Steelhawk]

If this report is true, it makes shutting down bb sporties a joke. We don't ever come close to killing that many c/r sockeyes in a season. Above Rosedales, there are only 4 popular bb bars - Seabird, Laidlaw, Pipeline, & Scale. The # of fishermen and incidental sockeye catch on week days are small. The # of sockeyes caught accidentally during a full day fishing hardly topped 20 fish per bar. With the low mortality rate, to say that these folks are threatening sockeye stocks are a joke. The only achievement by DFO is to further cutting back license-buying fishermen's right to fish in a legal method.

Now the FN nets and test fishery are killing much much much more fish. So, why stop people exercersing their rights to enjoy their preferred way to fish if their action is so insignificant to the fish stock? Where is human rights in this country? Where is the science to back up DFO's actions. The only thing I see is autocratic approach when dealing with the group with the most tax payers, and most hard-working fishermen who don't wish to take a fish by a massive net (talking about fairness to the fish), and by dozing off (talking about deserving your catch).

BBers don't have to hide anything. They don't live or struggle in a mental prison about whether a fish deserves to be your dinner when it just wants to have its own dinner. As long as DFO allows fish taken this way, it is game to us. We are at peace with our fishing method for the dirty Fraser with the limited resources (without a boat & a truck) and time (most are not retirees), as much as  we are at peace with using traps to catch crabs/shrimps, a net to catch smelts or to spear fish when visiting & diving among tropical reefs. There are so many different methods out there for a fish to be caught in the world in the most effective way the respective environment allows. BB is just the most effective legal method to catch fish on the dirty Fraser during these fish's peak run time.

I am proud to explore the skills needed to line a spring and to avoid a sockeye. It takes great analytical skill to use your betty to map out the river bottom of the river bars in front of you, as if you are down there yourself to see where a spring will like to hide. |By casting out progressively further at distance of 30ft, 40, 50, 60 etc., and count how many seconds before the betty hits bottom, you can form the vision where the drop offs are, where the deep trenches are. Springs hide in these places whereas sockeyes are just close to shore in slacker water. If you think bb is purely random and chaotic, and that any one can succeed by just blindly cast out your betty, you are missing the fun.

BB is not recommended on the Vedder of smaller systems with clear water. In slack water of the smaller systems, you will lose tons of lead by bb. BBers should switch to other methods for better result and less than to foul hook a fish. The bb brothers I know also enjoy their steelhead/coho hunts with spoons, spinners, jigs, float with roe, shrimp etc. Now nothing beats chucking out a pink spoon to the schools of pinks during rising tides. There is a time and a season for every fishing endeavour.

Tight line.

[Easywater]

If this report is true...

Here's the link: http://www.psc.org/TestFish/Area13PSsummary.PDF

The numbers for the last few weeks are better than I thought.

[dereke]

  Steelhawk while I do feel some of your pain for sure with the mess on the Fraser I'm pretty sure those test sets are not gillnets but seines and they do not kill them. Cottonwood, Whonnock, Albion, and San Juan are the only gillnet test sets and they recieve pretty light catches from what I have seen. Otherwise there would be almost 60,000 dead pinks already in the blinkhorn test sets already .

[alwaysfishn]

From my understanding, Alexandra Morton is not a marine biologist nor is she even a scientist on any accredited level. I have heard her debate her side with actual marine biologists and her arguments fail and when they do she switches to fear mongering.

I would ask why is the Harrison run producing such high returns while every run up river is collapsing? Why is it that as our population increases we do not demand that our tax dollars go towards better infrastructure to deal with OUR waste? Fish farms do create an environment where sea lice can thrive but OUR pollution is the most SIGNIFICANT variable... very few consider what they flush down the toilet, pour down their drain and wash down our storm drains. Personally, that is what I focus on, not the red herring I believe we are being led with.

I don't think it's necessary to discredit someone when you disagree with them. Just because someone hasn't taken the university training does not mean they don't know what they are talking about. She has nothing to gain from her campaign. The government is against her, the fish farms are against her yet she puts up with the attacks because she is passionate about wild salmon. She is not against fish farms, she is against putting them where they can damage the wild salmon. In my books she's a BC hero!

It is a fact that 2-3 years ago DFO counted nearly 100,000,000 sockeye smolts ready to enter the fraser and then the ocean. The problem is that rather than the typical 10% returning after 2 years, less than 1% appears to be returning. I agree that our pollution is part of the problem, however the only contact the sockeye would have had with concentrated pollution would be sewage discharge in the lower fraser.  I think if that pollution was killing them you would have seen some of the 100 million smolts either floating in Johnstone Strait or floating up on some of Vancouver's beaches. On the other hand sea lice would likely cause the smolts to die a slow death and they would be picked off by by predators leaving no evidence of their demise. Highly unlikely that you would see any dead smolts floating around.

Unfortunately like they did on the east coast with the cod, the DFO is directed by the government and as a result their scientists are probably being directed by the political agenda first and instructed to come up with science that supports that agenda.

Of course I'm not a scientist, but like Alexandra Morton, I'm just applying simple logic to it. 

[JustinG]

I am not a scientist either but someone close to me is and he knows Alexandra from his time at DFO. I take exception when someone says the DFO scientists are directed by "the political agenda". It is simply not true. How their findings are reported and used for policy, that is another issue.

I have been diving commercially and through sport for over 20 years from Northern Washington to the Alaskan border. The deterioration near major centres that I have witnessed over that time is incredible. Where once there were green underwater forests are covered with a dead greyish silt. The toxins in the water may not kill the smolts but weaken them enough where they are easy prey to disease, parasites and predators. Again, I am not a scientist and my observations are completely anecdotal.

[alwaysfishn]

I take exception when someone says the DFO scientists are directed by "the political agenda". It is simply not true. How their findings are reported and used for policy, that is another issue.

And the difference is.......??