Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[dennisK]

So  I spoke to a few Musqueam folks because I was always curious about how the fish were "handled" when caught. I learned a few things (after I was offered to buy sockeye at $10 each - but that is not my point).

I wanted to know whether the fish were bonked and bled immediately after catching, but apparently not. It seems that "tradition" says that is "bad luck" to kill the fish immediately. So when the salmon are pulled into the boat they are tossed on some ice while alive they are let to die from lack of oxygen. Fishing continues for up to 6 hours more and when the boats get back to shore only then are salmon gutted/cleaned.

I'm not an expert on many things but I know food. This is not a good manner of dealing with salmon; allowing them to suffocate because it will affect the quality of the flesh in bad way. One may also argue it is unnecessarily cruel as well. Even the sealers on the east coast usually kill with one good hit of their hakapik. I'm thinking this suffocating salmon method by Musqueam and other FNations could use some education. After all they are using power boats - aren't the y "bad luck" for the mother river?

Anyways...

[alwaysfishn]

So  I spoke to a few Musqueam folks because I was always curious about how the fish were "handled" when caught. I learned a few things (after I was offered to buy sockeye at $10 each - but that is not my point).

I wanted to know whether the fish were bonked and bled immediately after catching, but apparently not. It seems that "tradition" says that is "bad luck" to kill the fish immediately. So when the salmon are pulled into the boat they are tossed on some ice while alive they are let to die from lack of oxygen. Fishing continues for up to 6 hours more and when the boats get back to shore only then are salmon gutted/cleaned.

I'm not an expert on many things but I know food. This is not a good manner of dealing with salmon; allowing them to suffocate because it will affect the quality of the flesh in bad way. One may also argue it is unnecessarily cruel as well. Even the sealers on the east coast usually kill with one good hit of their hakapik. I'm thinking this suffocating salmon method by Musqueam and other FNations could use some education. After all they are using power boats - aren't the y "bad luck" for the mother river?

In some cases the nets may not have been checked for 6-12 hours so the salmon would have suffocated by that time. A salmon that has been dead and uncleaned for that length of time has begun to decompose. While the musqueam bands in the lower river may carry ice with them on their boats, it is highly unlikely that the upper river FN fishermen would be carrying ice on their boats. On a hot day the fish sit uncovered in the boats until they are brought to shore and then put on ice. While the ice makes the fish "look" fresh, the decomposition process has started. For $10 per fish you are getting exactly what you pay for....  inferior quality salmon.

[mykisscrazy]

If you think Commercial fisherman kill and bleed fish immediately after capture....you would be sadly mistaken

[alwaysfishn]

If you think Commercial fisherman kill and bleed fish immediately after capture....you would be sadly mistaken

Not sure where that came from....  I certainly wasn't thinking about commercial fishermen! 

[mykisscrazy]

Well, you are busy making remarks on how one user group handles their fish after capture...I am just letting you know that other user groups handle their catch in the same manner.

[DragonSpeed]

Well, you are busy making remarks on how one user group handles their fish after capture...I am just letting you know that other user groups handle their catch in the same manner.

Wasn't that comment origininally directed at Dennis's post?  If not - it probably SHOULD have.  To the best of my knowledge commercial fisherman don't leave their nets untended for lengthy times, they more actively "fish".  They certainly don't gut'em.  They slap 'em on sea ice as soon as they're in the boat.

[dennisK]

Dennis,

 A fish put on ice and covered asap and kept in a cool dark place without bleeding or bonking will keep for hours or days with little deterioration to quality.

Cheers
Nuggy.

Ok. thanks I did not know it was widespread practice. So it's ok they suffocate and die that way then, right? I'm assuming the fish die since they are not in water. Natives and Whitey have more in common then I thought.

[doja]

Ok. thanks I did not know it was widespread practice. So it's ok they suffocate and die that way then, right? I'm assuming the fish die since they are not in water. Natives and Whitey have more in common then I thought.

You make it sound like such a bad thing, fading to black. 

A lack of oxygen is probably a decent way to go if not the best. You feel nothing, a little fuzzy, and then black.

VS

Smashing it over the head, which may not kill it in one blow and may in fact need a few blows. Or you may think it is dead but it may still be alive, in allot of pain waiting to die and be over with. That`s cruel!

[alwaysfishn]

Smashing it over the head, which may not kill it in one blow and may in fact need a few blows. Or you may think it is dead but it may still be alive, in allot of pain waiting to die and be over with. That`s cruel!

You're kidding right? If a fish actually feels pain in the same way we as humans do, (studies have been made indicating fish do not feel pain) hitting it on the head knocking it unconscious means the brain isn't able to process the feelings of pain. In other words it is not feeling any pain. The flipping it continues to do is just involuntary muscle reactions...

But you knew that right?   

[dennisK]

You make it sound like such a bad thing, fading to black. 

A lack of oxygen is probably a decent way to go if not the best. You feel nothing, a little fuzzy, and then black.

VS

Smashing it over the head, which may not kill it in one blow and may in fact need a few blows. Or you may think it is dead but it may still be alive, in allot of pain waiting to die and be over with. That`s cruel!

We are talking fish here that you intend to eat. And suffocation causes distress no matter what animal you are. Did you miss the indepth discussion on how to kill a salmon on the board here?

http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=21182.0

Bonk and bleed is overwhelmingly the best method the sports fisherman has. If you don't know how to do it correctly perhaps you should spend some time at the gym and build up a little muscle. It takes very little strength.

You make it sound like such a bad thing, fading to black. 

A lack of oxygen is probably a decent way to go if not the best. You feel nothing, a little fuzzy, and then black.

How do you know what it feels like to die from lack of oxygen?

[doja]

 

[Steelhawk]

Dying with one single blow to the central nervous system will take away its ability to process any pain or fear sensation. That is why some people prefer to jump off a building or a shot to the head than facing the pain of a bankruptcy after stock crashes.  Slow death is not something we can say for sure unless you and I actually went through one, but even with that we are talking about human reactions and sensations. So we humans probably don't want other animals to die a slow death at our hands for humane reasons.

But what has this discussion to do with the titlte of this thread anyway? 

[Spud]

It's a shame that even when the stock is near death the FN get to go out and fish for thier famous ceromonial fishing. The ceromony cosists of them netting the fish and then selling them 10 bucks a piece. What a great tradition. Whats worste is we allow this to happen and some of us even line up at the road side to buy these fish. If everyone just stopped buying these fish the tradition would die.