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[IronNoggin]

A Plea of sorts here Folks:

The Stamp Springs are in SERIOUS trouble! At this point, there are less than 1,500 counted into the system. That number is CRITICALLY low! Scary in fact!

And while we all hope beyond hope there will be some miraculous late surge, all indications suggest that ain't likely to happen.

And yes, The Dino has left retention of the few that remain open for the recreational community in the river, this is being done for purely political reasons! They well understand the dire condition the run is in, and are running as hard as they can to cover their asses in this regard. By leaving the bonking of springs open, they can now point directly at us and state that we were very much part of the problem!

Time for us to wake up and realize we are being played! Time for us to recognize that should we kill any more, we are directly contributing to the problem beyond what we already have. Time for us to Man-Up and say: Just Don't Do It! And time for us to spread the word that even if The Dino cannot admit to his grevious mistake, that we can see the error of this foolish opening, and that we care enough to leave them alone! Time for us to honor the fish that we claim to respect and admire so much, and allow the few that do remain to carry their loads to the spawning gravels as they should!

I've been chatting up a LOT of folks on the flow these days. The vast majority have NO idea of just how bad things are regarding the springs, and I have seen too many large dead spawners lying on the beach as a consequence. Most I have chatted to express regret over killing the ones they have once they do understand. My plea to you all is to Please leave them be, and to help get the word out to others to do the same!

Nog - Very Worried we are witnessing the demise of this once Great Run! 

[Fish Assassin]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't DFO had a commercial opening because there was a bumper crop of springs ?

[IronNoggin]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't DFO had a commercial opening because there was a bumper crop of springs ?

DFO's knee-jerk reaction to an early and healthy run up-Island was to first assume the same would hold true for the Stamp, then to unleash the bag fleets (seiners, gillnetters and FN's) to mop up the supposed "bounty". The run never materialized as projected, and the vast majority of those that did show departed in holds and freezers, all for the sake of their roe, and a handful of cans of cat food.

Now it very much appears we are headed towards a near complete year class failure as a consequence. And while it may be convenient for some to point fingers, methinks it is much more time for us to pull up our socks, and ensure we do not contribute any more towards the very real problem!

Cheers,
Nog

[Fish Assassin]

Thanks Matt.

[ynot]

how many males/females do they need for brood stock? .there was a commercial opening just before the labor day derby. also native openings every week.

[IronNoggin]

how many males/females do they need for brood stock?

Thirty-Three THOUSAND more at the original run projected size (at which level there were no opportunities for commercial extraction).

.there was a commercial opening just before the labor day derby. also native openings every week.

There were multiple gillnet, seine and FN openings when the fish were backed up in front of the river due to warm and low water conditions. Now looks like the run wasn't destined to be even close to that original forecast, and with DFO's blessing, they scooped them all... 

Nog

[fisherwithrod]

Fish is just another limited "public" resource, I mean not private by any means. As with all non-private resources, the first question becomes how much it needs to be regulated or not. It is a question of balance. It is only when the second question comes in (what is the criteria by which it is managed) that the problem becomes interesting. For I think that "sustainability" of this resource is not the main criterion. We live, after all, in a dollar-bound capitalistic economy and society, and cost & benefit analyses are too often used instead of other more meaningful criteria.

[IronNoggin]

... For I think that "sustainability" of this resource is not the main criterion...

Even though DFO is directly mandated to do so, they have chosen to ignore their own reason for existing.

Regardless, the message here isn't to lay blame at anyone's door. It is instead to suggest to our own that we self-regulate, and leave the decimated run alone! It very much is the right thing to do!

Cheers,
Nog

[YESFISH]

I fish in Barkley Sound. They allowed the commercial and tribes come into the inlet. When they didn't get enough fish, they allowed them to come back.
Kildonan Tribes overnetted their sockeye in the last years and DFO awarded them by closing that section of the inlet.  I have a home in the inlet so I know these things.
Tribes are overfishing prawns and crab.
Ask Robertson Creek hatchery for their harvest and escapement stats and it shows a change of having 100,000 in the system to 50,000.  They used to understand the amount of money from recreation and that tribes and commercial should wait. They had sockeye from June to September and they should have given those excesses to the tribes and commercial and not one chinook. Only a brain dead paid off idiot would destroy something like this. People should be fired and sued.  The Port Alberni Derby even had people complain about the commercial fishing in the inlet.
In 2008, they had good inlet fishing and then netters came in and took 11,000 chinook (recorded, how many illegal?) and then the great rec fishing went down the tubes.  This is ending up like Washington States bought off politians.
My 2009 fishing was the worst of 20 years. They had 400 less boats in the derby and people may not return.

[VAGAbond]

Lets make sure we blame the right people.    DFO used to have field personnel, scientists and so on.    The politicians decimated the organization to give you and I the low taxes we demand.   You get what you pay for.

[fisherwithrod]

DFO used to have field personnel, scientists and so on.    The politicians decimated the organization to give you and I the low taxes we demand.   You get what you pay for.

Well said. The unregulated/unmanaged public resource inevitably leads to its scarcity. After all, the human population is increasing, so more and more are going to claim their share of the same resource. It's simple economics, really, in my opinion.

[adriaticum]

Lets make sure we blame the right people.    DFO used to have field personnel, scientists and so on.    The politicians decimated the organization to give you and I the low taxes we demand.   You get what you pay for.

We don't have low taxes.
There is plenty of money in government coffers for cost overruns of various projects, olympics and government salaries.
Environment and lives of general public in rural communities is just not a priority.

[UFC]

I don't think it's all a lack of government resources that causes this. We could have lots more government officials with the same results. It's governments caving to the pressure that each group brings. The more pressure, the more they get. It's short term economics from a government standpoint. Increase the short term money from the catch and give the interest groups what they want.

Bottom line is we can partially blame the government, but as long as commercial and native groups press hard they will continue to get what they want. That's why I credit the many sports fisherman who give up their time to lobby on our behalf. Hopefully their efforts will continue to result in the continuation of the fisheries we do have left.

[IronNoggin]

I don't think it's all a lack of government resources that causes this.

And I concur with this assessment. While DFO continuously bemoans their lack of funding, and continues to make serious cuts on all three (yes there are 3) coasts, the Top-Heavy end of the scale actually sees an increase nearly annually. There are currently more "policy biologists" operating out of Kent Street (Ottawa Headquarters) than there are in-field biologists on the coasts combined. There are more senior bureaucrats drawing excessive salaries than the combined costs of Area Offices in BC. There is more equipment (including patrol Hurricanes) residing in Ottawa than any particular region. So, crying funding shortfalls is simply the old shell game. Get RID of the dead weight up top! Lose the Bureaucrats who have run the fishery on both coasts into ruin, they have a proven record of dismal failure. Spread the equipment to the areas it is needed in. Hire more Enforcement. Create a stand-alone science wing that cannot be stifled by politics. Were we to do away with the dead weight up top, there would certainly be enough funding for each Region to operate in a much more realistic, and therefor productive manner. Really.

Bottom line is we can partially blame the government, but as long as commercial and native groups press hard they will continue to get what they want.

You have something here as well. The Dino is scared $hitless of the FN's. There ain't no fixing that without MAJOR change, and that ain't at all likely to happen.
The Jimmy Pattison's of the world enjoy FAR too much clout with The Dino, basically demanding openings at will, which are of course catered to. This perhaps we can tackle in the long run. Efforts are underway, and I'll report on what I can from time to time...

That's why I credit the many sports fisherman who give up their time to lobby on our behalf. Hopefully their efforts will continue to result in the continuation of the fisheries we do have left.

While it is fine to extend credit, much more is required. Many of those you refer to are "un-sung heros" who have chosen to buck the odds and attempt to keep the recreational sector on an even keel amongst a most savage flow. Many have gotten burned out and left, many more are approaching that level. More Troops, Fresh Blood of DEDICATED Individuals are desperately required. BUT, APATHY amongst the recreational sector is the single greatest thing working against us! Most are content to whine while on The Pond, the Flow, the Bar, their Homes, and the Internet. Very VERY few actually ever get directly involved, even when there is an explicit Call To Arms from those that are in the front line trenchs. OF COURSE the DFO and MOE are completely aware of this, and of course they use this to their advantage in nearly all occasions. It therefore becomes up to US to step up to the plate, bite the bullet and GET DIRECTLY INVOLVED! And while I hold hope for that to happen, personal experience over a great many years suggest this is a near-impossible development. I do hope that assessment can be proven wrong...

Cheers,
Nog

[Gaffer]

A Plea of sorts here Folks:

The Stamp Springs are in SERIOUS trouble! At this point, there are less than 1,500 counted into the system. That number is CRITICALLY low! Scary in fact!

And while we all hope beyond hope there will be some miraculous late surge, all indications suggest that ain't likely to happen.

And yes, The Dino has left retention of the few that remain open for the recreational community in the river, this is being done for purely political reasons! They well understand the dire condition the run is in, and are running as hard as they can to cover their asses in this regard. By leaving the bonking of springs open, they can now point directly at us and state that we were very much part of the problem!

Time for us to wake up and realize we are being played! Time for us to recognize that should we kill any more, we are directly contributing to the problem beyond what we already have. Time for us to Man-Up and say: Just Don't Do It! And time for us to spread the word that even if The Dino cannot admit to his grevious mistake, that we can see the error of this foolish opening, and that we care enough to leave them alone! Time for us to honor the fish that we claim to respect and admire so much, and allow the few that do remain to carry their loads to the spawning gravels as they should!

I've been chatting up a LOT of folks on the flow these days. The vast majority have NO idea of just how bad things are regarding the springs, and I have seen too many large dead spawners lying on the beach as a consequence. Most I have chatted to express regret over killing the ones they have once they do understand. My plea to you all is to Please leave them be, and to help get the word out to others to do the same!

Nog - Very Worried we are witnessing the demise of this once Great Run! 

IN--Jeffrey Till who's the DFO Co-ordinator of the Stamp/Somass Indicator program has different numbers showing surplus fish in the system ---How do you explain that ? Check out his web site @ jeffrey.till@dfo-mpo.gc.ca---for counts as of Sep 20/2009---- Cheers