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[fishseeker]

I was out on the Vedder with my wife last Friday last week and had a great time.  It was very humbling because she outfished me with five pinks to my three  (..and, yes, I know people are catching many more than that in a single day).

Anyway, she is a very observant person and noted how one guy next to us was doing so much better so I went and asked him his secret and he told me to use a very small omount of red wool no larger than a pea...well and good (we were using jigs).   My wife then pointed out that we must be doing it all wrong because I had been encouraging her to maintain a natural drift with the float more or less vertical and the hook about a foot or two off the bottom..just like I had read in Rodneys articles and done with modest success before.  The guy next to us was using a different approch: a) was fishing with longer leader and b) holding back on the float so that it was pointing at a steep angle towards him.   Everyone I observe, including very experienced fishermen, seem to fish this way and I appear to be one of the few who tries to maintain a natural drift with the float remaining vertical for most of the drift.  Two questions:

a) Am I doing something completely wrong here?   There was no doubt the other guy was hooking into a lot more than us but I am pretty sure they were body shots most of the time. [when I tried to explain this to my wife she figured it was just sour grapes because we were catching less  .  She is a lady of little faith in my fishing abilities  ]
b) I am also ashamed to admit that I accidentally snagged 3 and legitimately hooked the other three.  To a large degree I avoided snagging by fishing the faster water and staying away from areas where they were obviously just milling about in large schools as sitting ducks for any hooks that might be dragged through.  Even so, it was hard to avoid and a pain in the butt when I did because it is virtually impossible to haul them in against the current when the body of the fish is horizontal to it.
c) My wife only foul hooked one out of the five she landed - I think because I had her using a jig with an upward pointing hook.

Any thoughts on a) how I can improve my technique and, more importantly, how I can minimise foul hooking when using a normal hook. [..I have heard suggestions that I can bend the point more towards the shank but I am not sure how good the hook sets are with legitimate bites with that approach].

My setup:  float, lead so that 1 to 2cm remains above water, swivel, 2 feet leader, hook.  (Sometimes I put a little split shot about 6cm above the hook just to make sure it goes down rather than wrapping around the main line)

[doja]

Try using spoons 2-3' from float. Keep in slight current to give action to lure and with out droping it onto/snagging pinks. You should have very low foul hooks this way and still get bites. Jigs are not the best as they do tend to snag a little easier due to there design.

[BigFisher]

If you think he was flossing/ sweeping the bottom then he probably was. There are just so many pinks in the Vedder right now that if you are allowing your jig to float 1-2 feet off the bottom you are definately going to encounter foul hook ups, nothing you can do, just an overwhelming amount of fish.

[charles]

if you don't mind catching less fish, here is what I do...

I fish with float and blade, 12"-15" leader with blade.  Set the float and weight so that it is way above the school of fish.  You will know if you are feeling bumps, that means your blade is still hanging over the back of the fish.  Once your blade is drifting above the fish, the fish has to come up and hammar the blade. 

You will catch much less fish than the guy next to you.  But you are going to catch mostly fish that actually after your presentation.  My kids had fun being able to reel in pinks hooked by the mouth yesterday.  And I have seen the person next to us being exhausted trying to get a pink off because it was hooked over the back, fin, tail, and everywhere while my kids were reeling them in in less than a minute...

But you will catch less fish but more fun knowing that you are getting fish that bite.

By the way, everyone next to us was using float (6' from the bonucing betty), and 10 feet of leader, fishing in less than 4-5' of water.  I pulled my kids away from them cause they were constantly ripped their rods at the end of the drift...

[HOOK]

I can tell you that you shouldnt ever need to add the split shot by your hook. this will just cause foul hooks ups or your hook to travel under the fish. when i hit a run i havent hit yet that year (because of river changes) I play around with float to lead depths until i find the active striking depth. I short float and have never added weight to leaders even when using just wool. A good thing to do to find depth fast is look at the water and guess what depth you "think" it might be, set it there. if your not on bottom reel in right away and try going longer & longer each cast until you just start hitting bottom, then reel in and lessen the length by a couple feet, this will assuse you that your only 2 feet off bottom. IF you are fishing something heavier like jigs or roe then take into account the length of your leader to the bottom as these things cause your entire presentation to hang almost vertical. With wool especially you need to have your weight down a bit more then with heavier things, with blades i set myself almost on the bottom however i hold back on the drift so that the blade will spin in the current(you want to hold back so you can feel the blade spinning usually) when doing this it will left you up a foot or two from bottom 

[bbronswyk2000]

I can tell you that you shouldnt ever need to add the split shot by your hook. this will just cause foul hooks ups or your hook to travel under the fish. when i hit a run i havent hit yet that year (because of river changes) I play around with float to lead depths until i find the active striking depth. I short float and have never added weight to leaders even when using just wool. A good thing to do to find depth fast is look at the water and guess what depth you "think" it might be, set it there. if your not on bottom reel in right away and try going longer & longer each cast until you just start hitting bottom, then reel in and lessen the length by a couple feet, this will assuse you that your only 2 feet off bottom. IF you are fishing something heavier like jigs or roe then take into account the length of your leader to the bottom as these things cause your entire presentation to hang almost vertical. With wool especially you need to have your weight down a bit more then with heavier things, with blades i set myself almost on the bottom however i hold back on the drift so that the blade will spin in the current(you want to hold back so you can feel the blade spinning usually) when doing this it will left you up a foot or two from bottom 

Thats a good summary of how to do it. I do it pretty much the same. Another way to do it quickly is this. Dont attach your leader and just use your float, weight and swivel. Cast out and find bottom with your weight. Now once you find bottom you can adjust your float a foot or two so that your not touching bottom, attach your leader and your now fishing above the fish.

Just like Hook said if fishing with jigs than do the same but leave the jig on, find bottom than adjust your float. With wool and roe I dont find that it brings it down much but if your using spinners or spoons with weight it will cause it to bring it down further. Ideally you want to be a few inches above the fish.

[HOOK]

here is the best peice of fishing knowledge

fish look AHEAD and UP

NOT down

make sure your presentation is above the fish, not much above them but above them.

All of us starting with the knowledge of the old saying "if your not losing gear your not in the zone" I heard this when i started smaller river fishing and so it has progressed from there. Yes i caught loads of fish like that but i also foul hooked loads of fish then too. Now i might only foul a handful of fish during an entire season. This year i have fouled 3 and 2 were pinks when i was reeling in, the other was a jack spring that stole my roe but i guess when i went for the hook set i got him by the front fin  I know this because my roe was in its mouth still LOL but hey you foul hook fish from time to time. i have fouled them lake fishing a chironomid as well (stationary fly)

there is always new things to learn. not as many with gear fishing as there is with fly fishing however 

[summersteel]

Wow good for you that you stuck with proper drifting. Don't listen to your wife, she is dead wrong, it was not sour grapes on your part. Those other guys were just flossing(snagging) fish. Keep with your technique.

[doja]

When jig fishing this year I sat on a rock looking down at the fish and played with different things. I found that when fishing with the jig I'd see the fish circle the jig (in groups some times) and then dart at it and body check it or snap at it. I was wondering why I keep hooking fish in the sides often enough to make me wonder and it was the same area every time but I knew I wasn't snagging them hence taking a look on the rock.

It was like watching sharks at times when they would circle the jig and then attack.

[Bassonator]

JUst read your article on shortfloating, I have but one question, are you sure its distance is float to hook?
Ive been told by a few people including one guide that the distance is float to weight, as that makes more sense when your
bait or lure is drifting the river.

[DragonSpeed]

It's both.

Too long from float to weight and you're not floating... you're dredging.

Too long from weight to hook and they're not biting, you're flossing.

[fishseeker]

Wow, this is a great response! Thanks a lot for all of your ideas  - I am going to print out this thread when I get home and keep all your ideas in the front of my mind when I head out next time.  The thing I enjoy most about fishing is trying something new every time I head out - most of the things are duds but every now and then I come up with some improvement.  I think this response will help take some of the guesswork out of the process.

It appears from your answers that I have the basic thing right, just need to do some refinements to improve on it.  To be honest I was perfectly happy with our lower catch rate because I knew it was all too easy to foul hook fish and it was the last thing I wanted to do - mainly because I lose gear that way. Once a heavy fish gets into that current side on I am usually screwed.

The thing that surprises me is I see (presumably more) experienced fishermen doing the very long leader / horizontal float thing and I think this gives many newbies and less experienced (aka. myself) fishermen the impression that this is the right way to do things.  All I can say, from reading posts on this forum is don't be too hard on newer fishermen fishing this way - it seems to me we don't have the best examples to work with unless we are spending time doing research on forums like this.

...and as for my wife.  Just glad she tolerates my hobby and very gamely joins me on these outings   Next time she ribs me  I will get her to watch the more productive guy next to us and ask her what percentage of fish are legitimately hooked.

One more little question:  How much leader between the hook and the swivel?   The guy next to me recommended about 3 feet but that just seemed too long - just tangled around my main line (esp if I didn't use a split shot which I will cease using from now on).

[Fish Assassin]

I prefer a natural drift. As to foul hooking pinks, it's inevitable because there are tons in there right now. There's a few tips from other posters that can minimize foul hooking.

[mr.p]

By definition, short floating means to keep your offering off the bottom.  In slow current, I set my distance between float and bait to be approximately 1 foot off bottom.  However, in faster current, my distance between float to weight is approximately 1 foot off bottom.  Cast upstream and "check" your float as it drifts past you to get your offering ahead of everything else.

I would highly recommend doing some visual testing.  Go stand somewhere above the river where you can see bottom and your presentation.
And observe how your offering behaves as it drifts downstream.  Depending on the current and what sort of offering you are using it will act differently.  I use roe 90% of the time.  It is quite buoyant.  In faster current, it will stay level if not rise above your weights.  In slow current, it will sink below your weights.  You will be surprised how long it takes for roe to get down into the strike zone.  It can take 5-6 seconds for it to get down and ahead of your weights.  Furthermore, if you are short floating and you hold back even a little bit, it will raise your bait up to level with your weights.  And depending on current it can even raise your weights.  Its very touchy and best to visually see for yourself. 

Short floating can be very affective.   It is by far the easiest method for an entry level float fisher.

[mr.p]

It's both.

Too long from float to weight and you're not floating... you're dredging.

Too long from weight to hook and they're not biting, you're flossing.

Not true. There are numerous ways to float fish ethically.  A few of them include having your weights bouncing or sitting on bottom.  You can be too long from weight to float while holding back and not be dredging.  Just as you can be too long from weight to hook and not be flossing.

It all depends on the technique you are using. Short floating is deadly.  It will avoid foul hookups and is the easiest method to learn. But it does have its disadvantages.